Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Friday, September 30, 2011

Bonus Comment of the Week: Two-sided

In the comments after my post about measuring results, not effort, Lee does a great job of covering both sides of the issue of using or not using a licensed technology such as Unreal for Incarna:
Personally I think some (or a lot) of the problem is that its easy to say "lets buy a package that does the job" but its quite rare these days to find something that will do the job that doesn't have too many strings attached.

Something like the unreal or hero MMO engine are quite likely to have some sort of royalty cost associated with them that will eat away at whatever profit they get and since CCP intends to use this technology in WoD as well your doubling the money that your essentially giving away to another company.

While to us (the customer) we want good results in a short time frame the long term objective of any company is to make money and its a gamble that CCP is willing to make that a short term loss (in terms of time and development cost) will turn into a long term gain (in terms of saved revenue from not having to pay out royalties) - especially if this engine will be deployed in multiple games.

Now would we be complaining if they'd been working on this behind the scenes for years and got it all polished, working and efficient? Personally I can see its potential but its far from ready and its CCPs fault for taking the roast out of the oven while its still cooking; but even then most players would agree that they are wasting time building content that people just aren't interested in to try and gain new players while losing the ones they've already got.

Sounds like the inmates are running the asylum at the moment; its take a while but I think CCP are beginning to see the errors of their ways.
Yes.  This.

As I said last week, the really remarkable thing CCP did here was to announce their intent to build what was essentially a second MMO inside their already-working first MMO.  A lot of people have dismissively termed this as using EVE players as Alpha testers for World of Darkness, and that opinion is valid.

But it all comes back to that "total sci-fi simulator" that CCP wants.  I'm still convinced that CCP hasn't given up that dream.


  1. Personally I am all for Incarna, walking in stations done right.

    EVE can be impersonal afterall.

    Numerous people have argued with me in my alliance saying Incarna is a waste of space (excuse the pun) and it does nothing to enhance the content of space ships and therefore EVE as a whole, and in it's current form I cannot contest but as I see it I disagree. The key for me is corp room/briefing room.

    Corp Meetings in a briefing room before an op would potentially be very beneficial, the technology released on the screens, as a joke it is right now could be useful .bink files can be used to put up Presentations and if done correctly to allow other formats like .ppt or movie files could allow for many more complex and strategic decisions and more prepared and situationally aware pilots in fleet fights.

    Imagine like plays on an American football pitch if you like, certain scenarios played out, much akin to being in a squadron ready room prior to a Sortié.

    That sort of application would allow new dynamic in fleet combat, something that can make a corp or alliance stand above the rest, numbers be damned.

    Let’s face it Incarna could be useful, if it had some features, at the moment with the CQ, my Avatar makes me feel a bit like Schrödinger's cat…….. Can someone open the box and interrupt the Quantum frame of reference please I want to see if Eve is dead or not :D

  2. Licensing fees aside, integrating a third-party game engine into the already-existing EVE FiS engine would be an impossible if not costly undertaking. There is no guarantee that Unreal is even compatible with what CCP uses for space. And quick swapping game engines in the middle of an application is not exactly trivial.

  3. @anom: Incarna as you describe it is entirely a waste of time even with a corp/ally briefing room ... players in MMO's will always take the shortest available path to a goal and in terms of communication there is absolutely no benefit in efficiency that CCP can provide that Jabber, TS, corp/ally websites, and in-game mail (which is horrible still) already don't provide.

    As a communication tool the addition of an avatar is meaningless, as is the environment that the avatar stands in. The only benefit having an avatar can give you in a game is if you are able to directly use it to manipulate or explore an environment ... as every MMO like (EQ, WOW, etc) provides. IMO if CCP wanted acceptance of the largely theoretical ideas Incarna represents at this point they should have released with a functional Dust 514.

  4. For anyone that has been in a large team meeting with 200 people cramped into a hanger all trying to look at an overhead projector the far wall. Most pilots are going to have to use the immersion breaking zoom function to see the board anyway! (or is that the true power of the monocle?).
    Outside tools such as shared whiteboards, Teamspeak, and forums are being used to a far greater effect with alliances and corps that see need of this functionality.

    EVE gate had(has) the opportunity to fill alot of these functions in, but CCP seem to have missed this chance, concentrating on Incarna instead.

    "Carbon" when finished will of course be a masterpiece of creation I'm sure. But at this point you have to wonder about the return on investment compared to having it live now by using an outside royalty based engine, thus earning money from shiny hats, and exotic dancers in your CQ.


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