Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Wednesday, September 28, 2011

Comment of the Week: One-sided

Comment of the week comes from carmelos53, a well-known member of the TDF leadership, who writes:
Hi I'm a tdf fc. Jester you have all of the facts wrong in post bud. You completely took away all of the truth of the drama and inserted your opinion instead of stickin to the facts. Next time - please feel free to contact tdf or btl.

1) btl does pvp roams for fun
2) no the fcs in btl and tdf have NOT received bans bcause they want the community to go to low sec. They did it to grief.
3) Raver made a public statement in btl on audio to tell everyone how happy he is to make people mad

This has nothing to due with "fcs" wanting to go to low sec. There is 0 division right now in tdf/btl leadership on starfire angel or raver. They broke the agreement, they acknowledged what they had done, they laughed. As such they are banned from both channels.
He was commenting on my most recent post regarding the BTL/TDF incursion drama.  Normally I don't get into point-by-point rebuttals, and I'm not going to this time, either.  Still, this comment deserves a bit of a response.

First off, and most simply: it is not my job to take BTL/TDF's side on every issue.  Nor do I have to stick strictly with facts and keep my opinion to myself.  That's not what my blog is about.  My first post regarding the drama stuck to a factual accounting of what happened with Raver, and was accurate enough to be posted as the MOTD in both the BTL and TDF channels, and was frequently linked to by BTL/TDF leadership as the post for people unfamiliar with Raver's actions to read about what he had done.

That, in itself, should be proof enough that if I want to stick to the facts, those facts will be accurate.

But "Practical applications" was opinion, not fact, and I clearly stated it as such.  Even then, though, I made it very clear in the post that I was not condoning Raver's actions.  I also stated flat out in the post that his intent was almost certainly to grief people.  And I never said in Practical applications that I thought Raver and starfire were banned for wanting to lead low-sec incursions.  I said the opposite, in fact, that they had been banned for completing mom sites prematurely.

So, your accusation that my second post wasn't factual is rather open to question.

As to the larger issue, as I said above, though, it's not my job to take the BTL/TDF position in every post I make.  I'm allowed to take contrary positions from time to time if I like.  I frequently explore both sides of an issue, and sometimes do it in the very same post.  As I've said before, if that makes me inconsistent, very well, I'm inconsistent.  ;-)

But, since you're questioning my opinion of the facts in the case and inviting me to ask you questions about these issues directly, I'd be happy to ask you the questions directly:
  1. Are the BTL/TDF leadership frustrated about channel member unwillingness to enter low-sec?
  2. Are BTL/TDF leaders considering occasionally prematurely closing mom sites to encourage more channel members to join low-sec incursion fleets?
  3. Were Raver and starfire two of the FCs that had expressed frustration about this issue before they were black-listed?
  4. If they continue to prematurely complete mom sites in high-sec, will the BTL/TDF leadership black-list additional members of their fleets that help them?

I look forward to your responses to these questions.


  1. I think that was troll....

    But I could be wrong.

  2. No that wasn't a trolling comment. Btl/tdf would like to organize a response to jester in game straight from the source. We will answer any and ALL questions oh will come up with (assuming they are related to the issue). Once again, my offer is extended please contact me in game.

  3. Many BTL FCs have been frustrated since day one about the lack of desire among many members to go into lowsec. This has led to FCs leaving BTL in the pass. The general line, afaik, is that the leadership understands that players don't have to risk their ships if they don't want to. But by and large, players don't want to risk ships even though they miss out on the fun of lowsec.

    I don't recall premature closing of incursions ever being on the table to encourage low-sec running.

    Raver had expressed annoyance with the lack of desire in alliance chat and in BTL pub on occasion.

    As to point four, they banned Raver's alliance so I think that's a yes.

  4. @Carmelos53: fair enough. I'm traveling on business today, but I'll look for you in TDF tomorrow or the day after for my questions.

  5. Hmm, lets see.... took a poll, and umm, as it turns out people don't wan't to go to losec for incursions because losec is a deathtrap and incursions already have fair amount of danger involved in running them.

    I was with a gang in high sec last week, and one of the logis lagged on a gate while everybody else went in- the logi pilot waited for a rape gang to come and drop a can so they could be flagged, then after the logi pilot was in the site for long enough to have spread the aggression timer to the others in the fleet, the trap was sprung, 2 Guardians and a Machariel died. This was in high sec...in losec people can just come in and start shooting- and sure you can look over your shoulder some to keep safe, but with an incursion in the area I'd bet more often than not every other E-thug in losec is there waiting for you.(one of the high sec incursions last week was on an "island", 3 jumps of losec to get to the incursion- the incursion timed out cuz nobody ran it...word on the street was the 3 jumps thru losec were wall to wall gate camps....yeah that's "fun"- for the e-thugs and pirates, not for the victims)

    Sure, people can fit up cheapo ships and just half expect to lose them as part of the "investment" they are making to farm incursions- but even though I can afford it, I still hate losing ships with a passion- because losing is the opposite of winning, and losing stuff is for losers.

    So, to sum up...people don't go to losec, because they are SMART- I'm no scientist, but I'l bet that it's the same region of the brain that tells people not to let people hit them in the face with a framing hammer that tells them not to go to losec.

    (and, that's my response to anybody who believes they can manipulate people into foolishly going to losec- losec isn't fun, it's full of E-thugs who can't leave losec cuz they shoot at every other thing that moves.... and yes, they can mobilize big enough fleets to take on incursion gangs.)

  6. "(and, that's my response to anybody who believes they can manipulate people into foolishly going to losec- losec isn't fun, it's full of E-thugs who can't leave losec cuz they shoot at every other thing that moves.... and yes, they can mobilize big enough fleets to take on incursion gangs.)"

    Says someone who obviously went to a system like Lisbaetanne, etc, got popped 5 secs after warping to a belt in their mining ship, and decided that lolsex is nothing but "a wretched hive of scum and villiany". Word to the wise: it's also "full" of faction warfarey and RPery, too.
    Hell, if you go to the right spots, it's actually not even that full...hell, sometimes downright empty! Where people get these strange notions.......

  7. Where do people get these strange notions?

    Perhaps from that one time they went to low sec and got blown up by that gate camp because they had no idea how to react in the situation?

    People learn very quickly from painful mistakes, apply a generous load of generalisation (which is human nature) and decide, "no more lowsec for me". Getting people into low sec is fighting human nature.

  8. LOL carebear tears, best tears! Can I ask what you do with your internet spaceship money other than buy internet spaceships to make internet spaceship money slightly quicker by repetitively killing NPC spawns? IDG why people like you play EVE tbh, I'd love to hear a response!


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