Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Tuesday, October 25, 2011

Bonus FOTW: Pre-launch Tornado!

I present to you the very first Tornado fit ever:

[Tornado, Alphafleet]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


If my math is accurate, this fit requires a 3% CPU implant, and that's all.  That's no problem for me, because Ripard keeps one of those in his head at all times.  If your character doesn't, then a Nanofiber Internal Structure II can go where that Tracking Enhancer is on mine.

Again, if my math is accurate, this ship will have just shy of a 5000 point alpha, will do about 500 DPS, and will have an absolutely freakish falloff... 24+88km with EMP L... but I'm not sure I believe that.  24+55km would seem to be the minimum that I can expect out of this boat.  Not too shabby at all!  And there's plenty of cargo space for holding that large ammo.  No drone bay at all that I can see, though.

The downside?  Dear Heaven, is this ship thin.  Again, counting on my math to be accurate, I think you can expect about 35k EHP, centered on a shield of 6500-7000 HP with 60-70% resists.  That's not as bad as a Recon and it's better than virtually any cruiser, but it's nothing like what we've come to expect from EVE battle cruisers.  Yesterday on Kirith Kodachi's blog, I brought up the comparison of the 15 U.S. "heavy cruisers" of World War II, and I think that's going to be the most apt comparison.  U.S. heavy cruisers featured very fine guns but their armor was laughably thin and their torpedo blisters were non-existent.  That's about what you're going to be able to expect from these "battle cruisers".

EDIT (25/Oct/2011): I've renamed this one "Alphafleet".  The more I look at the 800mm AC version, the more I think CCP is going to have to gimp this ship before it's even released.  It's too scary.

EDIT (25/Oct/2011): Here's the auto-cannon fit:

[Tornado, Autocannon]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Still needs a 3% CPU implant.  Basically a super-Vagabond with no drones. 775 DPS at 3+30 or so. About 40k EHP. I'm having a hard time with the speed calc. It keeps coming up 1800m/s with Acceleration Control V, and I keep not believing it... Can someone check my math? I'm having a hard time with the mass.

EDIT: Math confirmed.

I'll have more to say about the Tornado and its cousins shortly.

31 comments:

  1. You're bad at fitting.

    Use 800m autos with the newly buffed Hail, drop the TE for a third Gyrostab, and drop 200 of them on the nearest supercap fleet in facefuck range with a few Scimitars. A new T2-linked Loki to massively reduce their sig adds hilarity.

    death2allsupercaps~

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  2. Wait wait wait. They released the fitting stats already? Or are you basing this off Pattern Clarc's slot layout and stuff that he put on his entry?

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  3. Working on an AC fit now, but the DPS seems to be coming up short, though it's a bit harder to estimate.

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  4. Also, Mittani's right, facefuck range is a much better idea especially if you're welpfleeting Titans. Titans have guns and a snipe fleet at range won't have the transversal to avoid a tracking-fit titan's guns.

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  5. @Planetary: I'm basing it on the stats included in the Sisi database leak.

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  6. ... link to this please? You can email it to me if you don't want to publically post it, email is ZhangC1459@gmail.com

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  7. "For example, they could have been tech 1 heavy exploration ships: the scanning bonuses of the Tech 1 astrometrics frigs, the marauder bonus of 100% to weapon damage, but only four cruiser sized weapon hardpoints (so they hit like 8). Utility slots for scan probe launcher, salvager, etc."
    A quote from the article you referenced. As an explorer/part time wormhole diver, I would kill for this. T3 cruisers are fine and all don't get me wrong, but there's something wrong with 90% plus of the exploration population using one hull and the other 10% split between Legion/Myrm/Drake.
    Personally, I'm already thinking of how to incorporate the Gallente version into my exploration antics. With the tracking buff it would be interesting.

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  8. Seriously bad at fitting, 800mm's all the way, the ship has a falloff bonus after all... it's there for a reason. Mittani's wrong about the whole dropping the TE idea though, going to need as much tracking as you can get, also TE will further extend falloff.

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  9. I'm working on a 800mm AC fit right now, but the DPS is coming up short for some reason I can't understand yet.

    That said, I invite you to picture what 15 of this ship could do to an officer-fit L4 mission boat.

    @Planetary: dude, go backwards one post on this blog. ;-)

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  10. Agreeing with Mittens. While that falloff looks retarded with arties, combining it with ACs and the new and improved hail will be face-punchingly awesome. I'm almost thinking of it as giant Vaga on steroids.

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  11. Logan, Mittens is right as far as welping on a Supercap fleet goes (which is what he was suggesting). You don't need TE even with battleship guns when your target is several kilometers long and has the sig of a small moon.

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  12. Jester: sorry, you update your blog so blazingly fast that I didn't even know there was a post I hadn't read before this :D keep it up, you make everyone's day that much better. I love new material to read

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  13. wonder what a PvE WH fit could do.

    Would be similar to your fit but AB fit and a tank mod.

    Wonder if that is good enough to run with a tengu RR gang.

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  14. I can't see using any of the tier 3 BCs in PvE, and most definitely not WH- or incursion-running. They're all super-fast, but they're all also super-thin.

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  15. 1,855.41 m/s with a 10mn Mircowarp II and 1,441.94 m/s with a 10mn MW II, a 1600mm Rolled plate, and 3 trimarks.

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  16. Stop talking about how good it is!! CCP might listen and gimp it down to 6 guns or something...... Note for CCP: this ship sucks... put it on TQ with no worries! And definitely don't worry about us putting a 100mn AB on it... don't worry at all ;)

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  17. God, 1800m/s is fucking SCARY.



    On a side note, how do you put in custom ships into EFT?

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  18. You don't. I'm using about four different ships to model this thing, plus doing some of the math manually.

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  19. I think the new battle cruisers are being compared to the wrong ship. The pocket battleships Kirith talked about were the precursors to the super-heavy cruisers of late WWII and using those as a yardstick for the new T3 BCs is not entirely correct. Rather, these new BCs should be looked at more akin to the actual battle cruisers of the Great War; battleship firepower, cruiser speed, and whatever armour could be squeezed in.

    Battle cruisers never were intended to stand in the line of battle and go toe-to-toe with battleships. Their role was to hunt down enemy cruiser squadrons and demolish them beyond the range of the cruisers to hit back. Current EVE BCs are more akin to the super-cruisers of late WWII - heaviest non-battleship firepower going, better armour than heavy and light cruisers, and speed at least comparable to a heavy cruiser.

    Instead of putting the Tornado up against existing BCs and BBs (battleships), Jester, how about showing how one fares against other cruisers?

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  20. @Heretic: when they hit the test server, you can trust I'll be doing exactly that.

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  21. One thing I don't understand. Why the range bonus? Just being able to properly use large guns makes these things a terror to the BC/cruiser crowd. These should in no way, shape, or form, be better than battleships. Commerce raiders, sure :)

    Dare I hope this might be the first baby steps towards the beginning of some sort of balanced fleet composition?

    @Jester: Eagerly looking forward to those test results :) Off the top of your head, how does the 34k EHP compare to the better cruisers?

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  22. I wonder what CCP will do when everyone nub in highsec with too much isk on his hand will die horribly in a fire and ragequit..I foresee a nice drop in high-value mod prices, a rise in mineral prices due to more ships lost and a nice patch from CCP limiting this shiptype to <0.5 systems.

    Awesome tho, and Jester, keep up the good stuff, interesting read!

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  23. @Heretic - Totally agree. These are definitely most comparable, historically, to the original-concept BCs as exemplified by Invincible, Tiger, Hood, Alaska, et. al., as opposed to the Baltimore class CA's and following. Original EVE BCs have more in common to that latter than these new ships, and I think you stuck the connection right on the head. The comparison is big-and-fast raider rather than line-of-battle ship (BS's, WWI DNs and SDNs)or fleet escorts (CAs and lighter). Fast with huge, battleship-calibre guns and tissue paper armor = real, historical BC concept, as opposed to what we have had in-game.

    I look forward to seeing what these ships will do. My partner-in-crime over at Mad Haberdashers' things the Talos will facemelt pretty good in combo with the new and redone Oneiros (which will hopefully obtain some real usefulness, like Scimi-for-armor usefulness) ... but I'm looking for the Naga, thinking some pretty interesting snipe possibilities - perhaps basis for a sniping fleet? Hm ...

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  24. @Heretic

    The Tornado is a HAC-Hunter. It has nearly the same speed as a HAC and has guns that will reach out to 50KM.

    I see this ship as more of a counter to the massively overpowered Nano-Hac gangs.

    Here are the EHP numbers of some of my pvp cruiser builds

    Cynabal 44k EHP
    Vagabond 34k EHP
    Zealot 30k EHP
    Rupture 44k EHP
    Stabber 31k EHP

    @Jester Here is how I would fit a Tornado: Like the Vagabond and Cynabal, Use a Large Shield Buffer and Range as your tank, relying on your ridiculous agility and speed more than high resists.

    [Tornado, Hac Hunter]

    NanoFiber Internal Structure II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II
    Tracking Enhancer II
    Gyrostabilizer II

    Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
    Warp Disruptor II
    Invulnerability Field II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Large Shield Extender II

    Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L/Hail L
    Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L/Hail L
    Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L/Hail L
    Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L/Hail L
    Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L/Hail L
    Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L/Hail L
    Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L/Hail L
    Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L/Hail L

    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

    The upside of using Dual 650's means you won't have any tracking issues, you won't have CPU/PG issues, and like moving from 425mm AC's to Vulcan 220mms's you only lose about 2-3k off of your falloff and about 10dps per gun.

    This fit will put out about 500dps if my math is right, but it will be doing almost 2000m/s and have a similar EHP of 34k, and will have range in the neighborhood of 3km/31km with BC5.

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  25. 34k EHP is a heavily tanked Hulk, or Vanguard Basilisk.

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  26. Speaking of Hulks, what kind of blaster DPS are we looking at on a suicide ganking Neutron talos?

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  27. Autonomous MonsterOctober 26, 2011 at 2:24 PM

    @Planetary Genocide

    This fit was linked on the forums. ~1400 - 1500 before heat, about ~1600 - 1700 with. If you only want to look at damage you can model it in EFT as a Hyperion.

    I think the fit's pretty derp, tbh. A fourth mag stab is almost never as useful as anything else you can fit in a low; even in a pure gank fit I'd swap it out for a nano or a TE or fuck even an EANM.

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  28. AM: yeah, I just worked out a proper not-suicide fit with only 2 magstabs and a rig on the Hyperion and it was fucking 1005 DPS with CN Antimatter L. Ridiculous.

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  29. fake edit: here's the Talos fit I came up with:

    [Talos, test Talos]
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Tracking Enhancer II
    Nanofiber Internal Structure II
    Damage Control II

    Large Shield Extender II
    Stasis Webifier II
    10MN Microwarpdrive II
    Warp Scrambler II

    Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
    Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
    Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
    Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
    Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
    Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
    Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
    Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Hybrid Collision Accelerator I

    Apparently it gets something like 1005DPS before heat with all V's, a bit under 19k EHP with no skills. I have yet to find this glorious PYFA program that lets me make custom ships.

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  30. Autonomous MonsterOctober 26, 2011 at 4:37 PM

    Found it, it's here. You might need to install a python environment or some shit to get it to run; iunno, it's been a while since I've ha to use python.

    Knock yourself out.

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  31. PYFA runs perfectly well on XP. AFAIK it has not been updated for the new API system :(

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