Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Wednesday, October 19, 2011

Comment of the Week: Ford is evil

Generally, my "Consequences" post from earlier today has been very well-received. However, I raised a few hackles when I pointed out that EVE players have a small responsibility for what happened at CCP today. A lot of people have rejected that. Khalia Nestune was the most concise in explaining this position:
You should have just left the comments about players out of this; otherwise a well-written and informative article.

Players having any 'responsibility' on the employment of the developer is about as accurate as saying drivers who switch from Ford to Dodge are responsible for lost jobs at Ford.
I tried twice in the comments to make it clear that I didn't mean everyone that unsubbed or was vocal about CCP's mistakes this year. Just the small minority that was turning CCP's actions into a personal affront against them. I guess I wasn't being clear. Stabs did a great job of responding to Khalia, making it clear what I meant:
In this case though the customers stood outside the Ford showrooms telling people Ford were evil and they shouldn't buy.

It only applies to a small (but vocal) minority but the people who unsubbed and screamed all over the internet about how terrible Eve was and how everyone should unsub as a point of principle DID contribute to this crisis.
Yup, better than I put it myself. Those were the people I meant. Thanks, Stabs!

19 comments:

  1. I'll be the first to comment on an article referencing my own comment; seems appropriate =)

    Honestly, I don't think the "CCP are evil" folks are don't anything wrong either. It is a customer's right to complain about a company, and a freedom of speech right (in countries sane enough to have that right) for them to do so.

    Put it another way: If you stand outside Walmart with a sign and protest the company, are you responsible when Walmart closes a store or lays people off?

    Stabs said: " ... people who unsubbed and screamed all over the internet about how terrible Eve was and how everyone should unsub as a point of principle ... "

    Exactly. As a point of principle. What better way to send a message to CCP then to encourage other people not to play?

    Players wanted EVE better. CCP hired people that didn't achieve this goal. They got dropped. CCP's fault, no one else's.

    ReplyDelete
  2. I've reposted this conversation over at My Loot, Your Tears, as to engage my readers there.

    http://www.mylootyourtears.com/?p=1451

    ReplyDelete
  3. "Put it another way: If you stand outside Walmart with a sign and protest the company, are you responsible when Walmart closes a store or lays people off?"

    You contribute.

    Responsibility is not binary, it's not solely down to one agent. Generally when things go wrong in any organisation there are a whole host of factors. I honestly think that the Eve community is too vocal too empowered and is toxic to the health of the company that provides it with entertainment.

    Nowhere did I or Jester say players were wholly responsible.

    "Players wanted EVE better. CCP hired people that didn't achieve this goal. They got dropped."

    Actually some of the people who got dropped really did make Eve better. If you view communication with the players as a positive. There's already a predictably strident and furious outcry on the forums over Fallout and Zymurgist with (predictably) some idiot suggesting boycotting Eve in protest.

    ReplyDelete
  4. As Paul Clavet said to me a few minutes ago: There may be causality, but there isn't any moral implication.

    ReplyDelete
  5. No matter the reasons, at the end of the day the only people really responsible for whats happening at CCP today are CCP. If my business fails it is my fault period.
    As is often the case, if those responsible are in management they get a pass and the axe falls on those lower down the ladder.
    I remember seeing something about some protest in real life where one of the points is executive mismanagement.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Disgruntled CCP employeeOctober 19, 2011 at 9:02 PM

    You fuckers don't deserve any fucking thing you whiny snot brained son of bitches. Why don't you just whine, whine and whine until hilmar has to jump on his sword because you don't like how EVE is. I say too bad, now I'm out of job because of you nitwits, don't reason with me, it was all you fuckers fault, fucking bitches I hope you burn in hell for what you did, you unemployed some good talented people by making a big fuss over some tiny cosmetic items, and not allowing us to work.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I will say that out of the few MMOs I play, the EVE community is the absolute, hands-down worst of them. There's nothing that makes them happy and every twitch invokes whining like children and threats to leave. Every player who's left 1.0 space is a bittervet in some way. If I had seen the forums before I put in my payment info, I highly doubt I ever would have played this game.

    ReplyDelete
  8. http://i.imgur.com/Wl5pD.jpg

    ^ Not sure if you saw the scumbag CCP image or not. Kinda... funny.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "Responsibility" is a lot like "Selfish" in that the words have an unnecessarily negative connotation attached to them.

    Responsibility, held bereft of all connotation, simply means that you had some cause over the end result.

    And in that sense, yes, the vocal minority did have a lot of responsibility.

    I know I unsubbed because I couldn't go ten steps looking up EVE information without finding someone who was disgruntled that their X wasn't Y enough, etc.

    Is it ultimately CCP's -fault-? Very probably yes, but it does depend on who you are. There aren't many people in management who really believe in factors external to a company being all that determine success or failure, though.

    Still - Jester's absolutely right. It's not a blame game, it's a statement of fact: the people who protested the loudest do bear some responsibility here, even when the ultimate blame and responsibility lies with CCP.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I have to agree with what OOZ662 said. Everybody wants everything and when they don't get it, they throw an eFit. They might be a vocal minority, but they have a huge impact on the morale of the players, which in turn has a huge impact on getting and keeping new players.

    ReplyDelete
  11. The EVE community is hands down worst?

    How did you find this blog? Why do you read it? You do realize that Jester's Trek and (many) others like it, blogs, podcasts, youtube videos, exist as labors of love from the community? You wouldn't know how to play the game without it.

    Go back to WoW.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Good day:

    1. I agree with the following:

    "Players having any 'responsibility' on the employment of the developer is about as accurate as saying drivers who switch from Ford to Dodge are responsible for lost jobs at Ford."

    2. While I'm a current subscriber, I cannot even compare the customer service attitude of CCP compared to well run (key words) companies like Amazon.com because CCP is so in the dark ages for customer service and customer focus.

    I would unsubscribe if there was something else for me to do when I have "personal" down time based on how CCP does not (key words) focus on the customer.

    A. CCP customer's service point of view is the customer is an idiot, a liar, and is wrong until proven right... and the chances of the customer proving they are right as as close to snow shooting out of an active volcano.

    B. The customer base has been asking for fixes to various existing areas of the game - low security space, faction warfare, null sec, etc.

    What does CCP do instead? Incursions -- FORCED PVE content, Incarna, etc.

    In my 48 years in life, I've yet to run into a company that -- by their actions -- cared less about their customer base.

    BTW, I don't call the letter from their CEO humble; I call it hogwash. Words not backed up by actions are completely meaningless.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Good day:

    "In this case though the customers stood outside the Ford showrooms telling people Ford were evil and they shouldn't buy."

    And if Ford lays off people because of the above, it is still not the fault of the customers who were vocal about their dissatisfaction!

    A few weeks ago I made the mistake of believing the false advertizing and false marketing of KFC where they showed popcorn chicken that were nicely sized.

    I ordered a large popcorn chicken; and when I received it, here's what I got:

    * 3 pieces that were the size shown on their TV ads, flyers, and posters.

    * The rest where literally the size of a small pea (green pea -- not the pod, the pea) including the breading.

    When I complained, I got a postcard stating they cannot guarantee the same size, and offering me a free large popcorn chicken.

    I.e. they did not apologize that I got any pea-sized chicken at all. The customer is wrong, they are right, and it is ok to show TV ads that all of the pieces are a reasonable size, but deliver something the size of a pea when you pay good money for it.

    Now, if I were to broad cast this lie of KFC, KFC has several choices:

    * Do the right thing and fix the product and the delivery of the product.

    * Continue doing what they are doing.

    * And in the end lay off works if more and more people don't go to KFC due to false advertising, lying, and delivering bad product.

    Who is at fault? The consumer who dared raise their voice? Or KFC that did not run their business properly?

    The entire blame -- 100% -- is on KFC... the customer who opened their mouth to say something is not right is not responsible for people losing their jobs.

    Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  14. @'CCP Employee'

    I'm sorry you started cutting corners on a product we loved so badly that huge numbers of customers quit paying for it. Indeed, we should have just ate the shit we were given and said 'Thank you sir!'. It is truly a sad day when consumers feel justified in spending their money on those who give them what they want.

    Genuinely sorry to hear you lost your job, but blame management for mismanaging your service rather than the customers who stopped wanting the shit they were being given*. Calling players whiny and entitled is certainly the pot calling the kettle black.

    *EVE as a product is fantastic and, in my opinion, as good as it's ever been. But EVE is not a product, it's a service. Part of what we pay for is future development and confidence in the service's future. If you tell me that EVE will be changed into something a year from now that I do not like, the service your offering becomes something I would not be willing to pay for.

    ReplyDelete
  15. "As Paul Clavet said to me a few minutes ago: There may be causality, but there isn't any moral implication."

    You may feel there's no moral implication but that doesn't mean that other people accept your conclusion.

    Disgruntled CCP Employee certainly blames you. And to him, if you're genuine sir then sorry you lost your job and best wishes for finding something else soon.

    ReplyDelete
  16. @All: Just to be absolutely clear, there's no guarantee that "Disgruntled CCP employee" is one. Might be, might not. There's no way to tell.

    ReplyDelete
  17. @Jester
    It is pretty clear that Disgruntle CCP employee is a troll. But he (no lady would swear so much) does hit the right notes and below the belt. I am neither the vocal minority nor the bitter vet and it did make me feel bad just by reading it.

    There are lay offs everywhere right now, because it is that time of the year, the beginning of the forth quarter when businesses need to balance the books for the next year. The gloom in air is depressing, but this is not the end of the world and the people did not die, so there is still hope that things will turn out for better for those affected. From my experience everything that happens usually turns out for the best, even though it is hard to see the big picture right now.

    ReplyDelete
  18. One of the most hopeful lines I have heard was:

    -It will always work out right in the end.

    --but what if it doesn't? I mean it could next year and it could still be awful.

    - If you are at the end, and it hasn't worked out well yet, maybe you're not at the end yet.

    ReplyDelete
  19. &D. CCP E.

    One of the things about a free market is that it's exactly that: free. So when the company that you work for releases a product that doesn't sell, who is at fault? The company, for failing to anticipate market reaction? Or the consumers, for not spending their money on a product that they never wanted?

    ReplyDelete

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.