Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Friday, December 9, 2011

KOTW: Greenmail. GREENMAIL!

OK, first, let's get the "idiot of the week" out of the way.  I had a lot of people point me to that Megathron with only six mods fitted, but for sheer idiocy, that Mega pilot can't possibly compete with this Badger pilot:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11814629

Anyone want to argue with me there?  No?  OK.  ;-)  BTW, the arty Tornado is OP.  Yes, I said it.  I was on a Rote roam the other day where we decloaked a Pilgrim off a gate.  Though the kill-mail ended up going to one of the other two ships on the KM, it was the single Tornado on the kill that clearly alpha'ed it right off the field, in only a single volley.  One more time: we alphaed a Pilgrim off the field with only three ships.  So get your Tornado kills in now, kids, because that ship is going to have to get nerfed again.

No, here's your real kill of the week:
http://deep.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11816402

I've written about triage carriers and the number of "cap mods" they need before, and as I said in that piece, the optimal number of cap mods to ensure stability under cap pressure (say, from a group of wormhole Bhaalgorns) is 12.  However, a lot of triage pilots split the difference and go with ten.  That gives them two low slots that do a great deal to increase tank.

But let's say you have nearly unlimited funds available.  In that case, it might be tempting to replace some of your ten cap mods with billion ISK models and get the best of both worlds: the cap-stability and resiliency of 12 cap mods combined with the defensive strength provided by those resist mods.  This ain't gonna help you in a sov battle where a too-strong triage carrier is going to find himself DD'ed.  But for lesser engagements, or for Titan-free wormhole space, it might seem at first blush to be a excellent compromise: ISK as a force-multiplier.

And that's clearly what this carrier pilot was thinking.  Problem is, you can't use your fast cap regen to jump out of W-space.

One of the participants in this kill was good enough to share the story, which I have permission to quote in full (edited for clarity):
We were chain collapsing our static looking for pew, scout jumped in and reported: "Orca, Moros and Loki on directional scan, no tower."

As this was being scouted out and more people were being rallied into fleet, the opposing fleet put out probes and probed down the WH we had opened into them. They appreciated the danger of a new sig in system and foolishly rushed to close it. Moros warped into the WH, and as he landed, this Archon appeared on d-scan.  The BIG screw-up they made is that they warped the caps directly to the scanned-down result. If they had scouted the WH first, nothing would have come of it.

I decloaked and pointed and webbed the Moros, which sieged directly. A second scout in our fleet did the same too the Archon, which also sieged. Our fleet jumped in, the Moros was primaried and they were both neuted out, and we put a bubble up. For some unknown reason, the Loki then warped in, and he was webbed and pointed. Moros was popped, then the Loki, then the Archon.

Here's the full battle report.  Ouch.

The amusing thing are the logs of the Local chat, which I was also provided and have permission to share (I have translated two lines from the original Russian):
[20:09:49] Sheldon Conquerer > stop a pay
[20:11:05] MaxVodka > (in Russian) Stop!
[20:11:14] MaxVodka > (in Russian) We will pay! Stop!
[20:11:56] Efraya > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc
[20:12:58] Guall > stop pls
[20:13:26] Sheldon Conquerer > i pay money
[20:13:35] Sheldon Conquerer > don not kiil
[20:14:15] djswitch47 > we are rich
[20:14:24] Sheldon Conquerer > pleas)
[20:14:42] Sheldon Conquerer > dont nuch car) very hard by
The begging did not help.  Sometimes, the guy what has you pointed is also rich, and doesn't need the greenmail.  ;-)

Thank you to my contact in Narwhals Ate My Duck, who was good enough to provide me with some of the detail behind this kill.   Nice one, guys!

16 comments:

  1. It would be more accurate to say that your Tornado volleyed a crapfit pilgrim who didn't plug his thermal hole and (if you decloaked him) probably didn't have his damage control on, giving him a grand total of 10k EHP against phased plasma. Less indicative of an overpowered ship than of the wide variety of terrible fits that grace this game.

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  2. Thank you for the mobile theme! Makes reading your blog in class much easier...

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  3. LOL@taht youtube link, spilled my coffee laughing.

    Frankly I lived in a WH and it depends a lot on the experience the people have. If you can mobilize fast enough to close the stuff, you should do it. If not, just don't, as hilarity and tears may ensue.

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  4. Alternative theory regarding the Pilgrim is that if the other two ships on the mail were also Tornadoes they hit him for good damage as well - killmails are well known amongst pvpers to be bugged to hell if ships are killed in seconds.

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  5. Found the Pilgrim KM:
    http://www.rotekapelle.com/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=62245

    The other two ships weren't Tornadoes. ;-)

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  6. That youtube link was hilarious.

    Also I haven't seen this mega km, link to that please?

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  7. @Jester

    That Pilgrim killmail looks like a case of the Pilgrim getting his ass decloaked and insta'd without turning on any active defenses.

    Like Tsubutai mentioned.

    In my opinion, the glass cannon tier 3 BCs are not overpowered.

    Fact of the matter is, they are great gank ships and super killers. They will work quite well with logistics support.

    However without logi, they die easily. Quite solo'able by any of the standard Harb/Cane/Drake/Myrm BC fits.

    a 550dps Nano Arty Cane melts a tornado before the cane is into half-shields.

    The argument is like saying that a Maelstrom with a full rack of 1400IIs is overpowered because it would alpha this same pilgrim down in a single volley.

    The only difference between the two is that the Tornado is a lot faster, both in speed/align time and in lock time; to account for the difference, the Maelstrom has a lot more EHP and can active tank 2000dps if he so chooses.

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  8. I agree with the last comment. All of the new tier 3's are regular monsters when it comes to dishing out damage. And this is as it should be considering that they can be picked apart by an assault frig in a 1v1. For what it's worth I'm very happy with the balance the way that it is.

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  9. The Arty tornado is perfect...quit crying for the nerfbat. Instajibbed a pilgrim you say? Good, working as intended. (I have 12 kills with mine so far- I would say that they are not overpowered...just that the current "metagame" has yet to catch up...everybody is so obsessed with "DPS" in EVE that they currently have no concept of spike damage) Meanwhile, if that pilgrim pilot was using an interceptor to burn towards the Tornado, or was somehow using his cloak to you know... sneak up on the Tornado like a cloaky ship should, the Tornado would have been the ship on the wrong side of the KM.

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  10. @Anon1350 and others: don't read what I didn't write. I'm not calling for a nerf, and I'll be sad when and if such a nerf takes place. I'm saying that such a nerf is very likely. The Tornado is putting virtually every other arty platform out of business, which was almost certainly NOT CCP's intent. One ship is not likely to be allowed to take the places of several others.

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  11. @ Jester

    We just used a bunch of Tier3s to siege a low class wormhole this weekend...while I might prefer my Minmatar-o-don over the others, I don't exactly think the others are so terrible in comparison that they are useless. (best advantage the Tornado seems to have is the ability to switch damage types) As far as the other sniper boats getting put out of business- they weren't hardly in business to begin with....battleship snipers are tough to bring in small gangs because they warp and (typically) lock targets so slow they can't get into the battle in time to matter. (this is why people tend to use ships like the Tempest for camping rather than PVP roams)

    Like I said before....I don't think the problem is the ships, I think the problem is the players- the "meta" for ship fits before Crucible was so stale that now people are having huge difficulties "thinking outside of the box" with these new ships- both in regards to fitting and flying them, and in regards to countering them when they run into them on the battlefield.

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  12. @Anon1458: The Tornado is putting other *arty* ships out of business, not sniper ships. I agree there isn't much business there. But arty Tempests are now obsolete, as are many uses of Maelstroms, arty Hurricanes, Muninns, and even some uses of Machariels.

    Pretty good for one ship.

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  13. @ Jester

    Using the same logic you are applying to the Tornado, you could also argue that the Drake makes almost all other Caldari missile boats just as obsolete....the only missile ship most Caldari pilots see as any kind of improvement is the Tengu. (if they can get past the price tag)

    People just need to bring moar interceptors or cov ops tacklers (or more long range ECM) and start thinking outside of the "24km bubble" the meta of the game has fallen into.

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  14. ...oh, and I promise that soon I will stop posting here as "anonymous"... I love your blog and should have registered a couple weeks ago, I just keep putting it off.

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  15. @Anon1414: if you mean "just within the same class" of long-range missile boats, then Scorps, Rooks, the Onyx, and missile Vultures, plus the very occasional Cerb. And the Tengu, of course, which is way more popular in PvP than you seem to realize.

    The Drake is hugely popular, yes, but it didn't out and out try to put other classes of long range missile boats out of business.

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  16. @Jester

    This is a very ironic discussion given that I think the new Battlecruisers were made especially to diminish the popularity of the Drake and "DrakeBlobbing" in PVP.

    Also ironic in this discussion, is that Scorpions, Rooks and Falcons are not really great missile platforms, but as long range ECM boats they are one of the one of the most obvious counters to the new sniper BCs. (Interceptors or other very fast ships being the next most obvious)

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