Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Friday, January 13, 2012


Here's a discussion topic that might be interesting only to me.  In the post this week about using Bhaalgorns to allow small gangs to successfully attack capital ships, I was pointed at this video:

And this video does indeed show the benefit of using Bhaalgorns to allow 14 sub-caps to successfully attack and destroy three capital ships.

But -- and here's the part that may be interesting only to me -- the kill-board record of this fight shows it to be a flawless victory.  The video, by contrast, shows that at least three of the Narwhals ships were destroyed: a Scorpion and two Guardians.(1)  A Narwhals Absolution appears to warp off in structure.

The three losses are not shown on the kill-board presumably because the capital ships never fired on them.  As far as it can be determined from the video, the losses were entirely inflicted by Sleepers.  The attacked capital ships, instead of going after the Narwhals fleet, appears to both try to rep their allies and trigger additional waves of Sleepers to disrupt and harrass the Narwhals ships.  And this, they do successfully.  It might even count as a savvy tactic.  But of course, they get no kill-board credit for that.

And the pilots that lost ships don't post their own losses, presumably because there are only Sleeper ships on the KMs.

So, question, particularly for you wormhole-dwellers: is this typical?  I'm definitely not criticizing.  I'm just honestly curious.  It's not that big of an aspect of 0.0 PvP: sure, you gank people in anomalies they're running from time to time, but you almost never lose a ship doing it, at least not to the rats.  So I get the impression this is a bigger consideration in W-space.

I can answer for Rote Kapelle: it was made clear to me from the get-go that if there's a human on your loss-mail, you post the loss. But if there's only NPCs on the loss-mail (with Rote, this is mostly CONCORD...), then you don't.

How about for the rest of you?  Do you post your own losses if there are only NPCs involved?

(1) It's tempting to use the video as a "what not to do" tutorial on flying Logistics, by the way.  The logi pilot in the vid makes a lot of mistakes.


  1. I do not, it prevents my battleclinic from being shat up with things like an Orca loss to faction police because I autopiloted into Urlen with a -2.20 sec status.

  2. I live in a C5, and sleepers in anomalies, radars, and mags add a big random element to ganking people. We have used purposeful cap escalation or killing triggers to kill fleets faster. When you're going to gank site runners, you need to account for not only the sleepers on field and the ships your opponents are in, but the possibility that the losing side can trigger successive waves.

    IIRC, two capital escalation waves can kill a triage archon.

  3. I have three don'ts when flying Logistics.
    Don't Dualbox
    Don't FC
    Don't video tape

    I personally post NPC losses because a loss is a loss. It's a ship that you either have to replace or do without. In wormholes, that's a big deal since logistics are not always easy. However, for many people, they hate posting losses so if they can get away with not doing it, they don't.

  4. I post all of my losses, but then again I've never died to an NPC. If I did, I would, though. In fact, I'm usually posting my loss to EVE-Kill before my pod even exits warp.

  5. I don't. I lost a Loki once to a 10/10 escalation because my logi pilot got disconnected and couldn't reconnect for 30 minutes. The Loki was not able to kill all the tackling frigs fast enough to warp out and avoid the dps. (Insane amount of tackling frigs... like, 20 of them had me webbed, scrammed, and target painted)

  6. I remove AHARM NPC losses that get posted on our KB, because I don't feel like giving people any free intel, on stuff like fits.

  7. Our corps killboard records losses to NPCs (via API), but doesn't show them by default. I don't know about in the battle time view, but the opening screen doesn't show them, while going to the pilots personal win/loss history does.

  8. When ganking successfully in a wormhole, it's best to account for the sleepers because of the fact that sleepers change targets on their own will. Also scrams are pretty rampant in the higher class wormholes which include when battleships are coming in because of cap escalations.

    I do not post npc losses as long as no other pilot is involved, it's a practice of "Oh hey a computer kicked my ass." Though unreasonable to put on a kb that doesn't record specific npcs.

  9. It is an extremely important consideration, you have to be very well prepared to gank three capitals running a site in a C5, that's 14 more battleships than what there normally is and this one is a bit trickier because overloading is riskier (red Giant) http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/J124152

    Seeing that Narwhal fleet warp into you, i think shooting the triggers was about the only choice for those ratting caps, especially because you assume they are very well prepared to take you on.

  10. No, losses to NPCs have no place. KB is a record of PvP fights.

    On an aside, self-destructs should generate kill and loss mails in exactly the way that losing your ship does, IF other people are shooting you at the time of self-destruct. Goddamn BS.


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