Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Thursday, January 26, 2012


On Friday, I covered a bit of the incursion "interdiction" happening right now, and ended the piece by saying that "I think it's just possible that someone might do something rash."

Yup.  As covered by EN24 last night, yesterday in Lisudeh, a major effort was launched by incursion bears to disrupt the interdiction fleet's (ultimately successful) effort to "prematurely" close the incursion in the Kisana constellation.  Visit Lisudeh on dotlan today, and you'll find that about 75 ships were lost.  The bulk of them were cheap Blackbirds and Celestises (Celestii?) in suicide e-war attacks on the interdiction fleet's logis and frigate-hunters, respectively.

Problem is, a couple of those attacks succeeded, resulting in the destruction of the ships.

There's an amusing scene in Pirates of the Carribean: The Curse of the Black Pearl that, as a negotiator, always tickles me.  After Elizabeth Swann's rather disastrously bad negotiating earlier in the film only manages to get her captured by Captain Barbossa's gang of pirates, Will Turner goes aboard the Black Pearl intending to negotiate her release.  "Don't do anything stupid," Jack Sparrow warns him as the negotiating begins.  The trouble is that Will doesn't have anything to negotiate with except his own life, which for reasons of the movie's plot, is valuable to the pirates.

So Will points his gun at himself and threatens to shoot himself if his demands aren't met.  "Like that," Sparrow moans at the stupidity of this action, and there's a lot of humor value to be had in Sparrow bitching about Will's decision for the rest of the movie.

Yeah, as I said, a couple of those suicidal attacks succeeded, this one and this one.  There may be others.

Now, it's just possible that there was a valid declaration of war or aggression on that first one.  After all, look closely at the second one and you'll see that the aggressors ended up in pods.  In the first case, we don't know if CONCORD showed up to pop that Griffin or not so that might be a perfectly legal kill.  That second one, though?  Yeah.  That looks a lot like an illegal kill to me.

There's a little-known mechanic in EVE Online that states that if you participate in an illegal kill on a ship in high- or low-sec, the pilot destroyed is granted "kill rights" on you for 30 days.  Kill rights means that if the aggrieved party comes upon you in a ship, they have the right to destroy that ship, wherever they find it, whatever it is.

Even if it's, say, a two billion ISK shiny high-sec incursion ship.  Currently being aggressed by incursion rats.

By successfully getting an interdiction logi ganked, False Cape and Sortido might have done nothing but ban themselves from incursions for that 30 days, unless they care to put their shiny incursion ships at risk from aggrieved party Shamblingform.  And as I said, there might be others with the same kill rights.  No doubt, all those incursion pilots that lost ships last night are looking very closely at their kill rights and paying a fair bit of ISK to locator agents this morning.

Guys, there's a reason that a lot of people use alts for this sort of thing...


  1. Shamblingform is my alt and the first thing Darius III asked after the incursion was over was "SEND ME AN EMAIL WITH THE KILLRIGHTS", the aggro from the Blackbirds only made us lose lock before regaining it a few moments later as Concord was really on top of their game last night ^__^.

    I was DualBoxing with riverini and Shambs, shambs got popped by the Sansha's bomber wave, which sometimes aggresses a single ship not unlikely as when an FC call for an alpha strike.

    Over all it was a really exciting PVE to run, specially since we ended up with so few logis, luckily Logi 5 Paid off... dearly :)

  2. Glad to see the bears fighting back. This is why I enjoy Eve

  3. Not very smart. Takes less than a day to train an alt for a throwaway griffin or something. No need to use your main.

  4. It's hardly "little-known", a better phrase would be to say "hardly ever taken advantage of"

  5. Excellent, the bears are learning how to play the game through the school of hard knocks. May the mayhem continue!

  6. If I'm not mistaken kill rights only last 30 days.

  7. To be honest, we only entered the mom site because of the blackbirds and celestis.

    We had some troubles with broken aggro timer mechanics after the last patch (we started 1 hour late to fix it). We were too few (only 8 guardians before Riverini joined us). The FC would be running that site for the 1st time as FC. The hacker would be doing the hacking stuff for the 1st time. Because we were so few, BTL didn't believe we could do it, so they wouldn't contest us. we would have to call the mom on our own with just enough damage dealers. If it only have been for the FC, he would have called it off.

    But there were those blackbirds and everybody in fleet was yelling "DEATH!!!". So we went, got our kill rights :) and still managed to kill the mom. It was fun, if slow.

    PS: I hope CCP doesn't nerf sansha bombers, this site is great like that.

  8. And just like that, new pvpers are born.

    Man, I love this game.

    1. Killing a bug that walks onto your picnic doesn't mean your only future is as a bug exterminator.

  9. hey gais, let me have my incursions for another 45B isk plz...

    *cough* *cough*

  10. "When the Kill Right is registered, you will have 30 days to find the player and destroy his ship."


  11. @Mrsock, @Sae: yeah, good catch. Fixed. Not sure if that was a brain fart or what. I knew "30", intended to type "30", typed "90". Dumb.

  12. I still see "ban themselves from incursions for 90 days" in the second-to-the-last paragraph. Not to nitpick, of course.

  13. I can imagine how this plays out.... most bears are just about COMPLETELY ignorant of hisec mechanics beyond "wardecs suck" and "can't shoot someone without a wardec or if they steal from you, or you get CONCORDed".

    Those who don't read your blog will most likely not know about kill rights....and when they do get tracked down and popped in a nice shiny ship, oh the tears and rage will FLY, and of course the petitions about no CONCORD response and WHAAIIII!??!?!?!?!?!!??!?!?!?!
    And of course the screams for the removal of killrights, since a True Bear would never use their killrights anyways. ;-)

  14. I FC'd that site. Its really not difficult to FC with half a brain if you read the background on what all the different sansha ships do.

    Originally I was planning to call the fleet off to avoid unnecessary losses to hisec rats, and not wanting to be publicly known for welping the fleet. There were two decisions that made me not do that:

    1) All the blackbird and celestis pilots we would get killrights on.
    2) I asked that anyone who wasn't willing to die in the site drop fleet. Nobody dropped fleet and fleet comms were spammed with stuff to the effect "LETS ALL GO DIE IN A FIRE AND HAVE FUN WITH IT"

    That was one of, if not the most fun things I've done in eve so far.

    1. The funny thing is that sense of fun and accomplishment is how incursions used to be, before they started getting farmed with pimp ships and turned into just another soulless grind.

  15. "Guys, there's a reason that a lot of people use alts for this sort of thing..."

    Because those lot of people are wusses who can't deal with their actions having consequences?

    *evil grin*

  16. Common practice should be to use a alt for this kind of stuff, so no multi-billion isk ships will be put at risk later ...

    And no, every bear should know about kill rights, because that is what they get after THEY get ganked in high-sec normally. So they should know basic mechanics at least.

  17. kill rights though are not xfered indirectly... you jamm a logi who in turn can not rep an lirsautton alpha'd ship ( even another logi ) that popps no kill rights also I thought that there's only 1 kill right per kill but I maybe wrong about that

  18. The funny thing is that sense of fun and accomplishment is how incursions used to be, before they started getting farmed with pimp ships and turned into just another soulless grind.

    i dont get this - a thing is fun and adventerus for you as you learn how to do it - and later its figured out and ppl do it, while it might still be exciting if you start with it now.

    if i follow your logic, all ppl do for longer than a week or so becomes soullss - if its trading, producing or what ever you have as a job.

    you sound bitter...


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