Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Friday, February 17, 2012

Somebody knows something

Just a quickie.

Two weeks ago now, I wrote a little post that I called "Turtles all the way down", which was an examination of a document I received from an EVE player claiming to be a "strategist for hire" for EVE's largest alliances, particularly in the 2006-2007 time-frame.  However, the author also claimed to have performed this career right up into the EVE's "modern era", though many fewer specifics were given.

Hell, there weren't all that many specifics for EVE's earlier ages.

Whenever I write a blog post that states what I believe to be factual information, God help me if I'm wrong.  I'll get dozens of people coming out of the woodwork to tell me so whether it's smart for them to do so or not.  Most people enjoy being right more than they enjoy keeping things secret.  If I give an opinion that's at all questionable, same deal: I'll get dozens of people telling me what a moron I am.  Case in point: yesterday about this time, I wrote a thing in which I professed agreement with the concept that someone who does something dumb in EVE should be publicly shamed for it, hopefully with the goal that they wouldn't do it any more.  There are now 30-odd public comments attached to that post telling me how dumb that is and how ashamed I should feel about believing it.

Yes, that was irony.  ;-)  Someone tell Alanis.

As I write this, not counting all you Google Reader people, that post yesterday has been read about 470 times.  The "Turtles" post has been read almost 3000 times since I published it two weeks ago.  I expected a lot of people to say "BS" to it, and I expected a lot of people to say "there's no substance here", and indeed, both of those things happened.  I said myself that the first thing I asked the author for was more specifics.  The post itself has 78 comments, far and away the most comments anything I've published has received.

But not a single person came out and said "This document is BS.  The author wasn't involved with XXXX crashing, because that was all me, baby."  Or anything even approaching that.  You'd think, after 3000 people read this document, someone would have some kind of proof that this document is BS, if it were.  Somebody always knows something.

I find that interesting.

Anyway, what's below is what is likely to be my final postscript on this story.  It's the log of a conversation I had with the author of the document (his character name has been changed).  I've done some editing here and there to remove things like "brb" and the like, but I haven't removed any misspellings, since those tend to be distinctive from writer to writer.  I also removed two irrelevant sections of our discussion.  This log probably isn't of interest to very many people, but if you were interested in the "Turtles" document, you'll probably be interested in this.  And it includes a piece of data toward the end that you can put to direct work if you want to learn more about the author.  There's also a few more specifics about things the author says he was involved in.  You'll find in the log that I have permission to post this log.


  Channel ID:      -27034032
  Channel Name:    Private Chat (Private Chat)
  Listener:        Ripard Teg
  Session started: 2011.12.18 20:20:12

[ 20:20:16 ] Ripard Teg > o/
[ 20:21:58 ] strategist > Hey
[ 20:22:39 ] strategist > Good to sit down with you =)
[ 20:22:52 ] Ripard Teg > Indeed.  Interesting little document you sent me.
[ 20:23:24 ] strategist > I could protest its honesty until I go blue, but the opinion you've already made will be the one that sticks
[ 20:24:03 ] Ripard Teg > Not sure I have an opinion yet, honestly.  Every time I feel like I've drilled down to bedrock in this game, someone convinces me that there's this whole other level underneath.
[ 20:24:40 ] Ripard Teg > I'm hampered by the fact that while I've heard some of the stories from EVE's first age (Xetic, et. al.), I wasn't there for any of it.  I didn't start playing until 2007.
[ 20:24:57 ] strategist > Xetic, frankly, became a complete shell of idiots.
[ 20:25:26 ] strategist > It used to pride itself on having the highest member count in EVE history - still true today, they still hold the record
[ 20:25:48 ] strategist > but the majority of those almost 6k members were PVE runners and miners, living in the shadows of other alliances
[ 20:26:03 ] strategist > hell, pretty sure half of them weren't active come the time it finally collapsed
[ 20:26:08 ] Ripard Teg > ::nods::  Matches what I've heard, that they were an enormous paper tiger.
[ 20:26:21 ] strategist > Even a paper tiger is scary when you're drunk
[ 20:27:18 ] Ripard Teg > Paper tigers scare a lot of perfectly sober people, given the average EVE player's desire to lose ships.  ;-)
[ 20:28:02 ] strategist > Hm, usually I'd agree, but then I saw Xetic
[ 20:28:34 ] strategist > Their killboards are long lost in the aether, but there was this one moment where a 200 strong Xetic fleet lost out to 23 people.
[ 20:28:48 ] strategist > This was before capital ships became the mainstay of any EVE engagement so
[ 20:29:03 ] strategist > There is a paper tiger, and a paper tiger that has been in a bath for a month
[ 20:29:12 ] strategist > =)
[ 20:29:33 ] Ripard Teg > Heh.
[ 20:30:25 ] strategist > So yea, Poetic also has a copy - after your help, thanks so much for that BTW
[ 20:30:39 ] strategist > and he's like "Yea, more details."
[ 20:31:00 ] Ripard Teg > np  And yeah, assuming I stipulate that everything in the document is true, two obvious questions spring to mind: are you quitting EVE, and if so, why?
[ 20:31:24 ] Ripard Teg > You said a lot in the doc without saying a whole lot, if you get my drift.  ;-)
[ 20:31:31 ] strategist > No I am not, simply quitting the strategy game. Why, simple, business for my kind of strategist has become almost non-existant
[ 20:31:35 ] strategist > heh, the gift of the ramble
[ 20:31:51 ] strategist > I said a lot without any solid details. I'd make a good politician if I didn't hate politics.
[ 20:31:55 ] Ripard Teg > Eh, there's a difference between rambling and deliberately avoiding the juicy stuff.  ;-)
[ 20:32:35 ] Ripard Teg > Simplest example: you say you were taking these enormous per month contracts... without saying what you were doing that was worth that kind of ISK.
[ 20:33:17 ] strategist > Example: giving RA pointers on how best to work with young goon in the first push through Bobbit
[ 20:33:57 ] strategist > current contract: working with certain directors of a large power holder in making plans and contingencies for the next year and a half
[ 20:34:12 ] Ripard Teg > See what I mean?  You're saying stuff without saying anything.
[ 20:34:29 ] strategist > Because frankly I dont know what to say, if I'm honest
[ 20:35:07 ] Ripard Teg > Some of this stuff is five years ago, for alliances that don't exist any more.  So I'd give specific specifics if you want the doc to be taken more seriously.
[ 20:35:20 ] strategist > I dont care how serious the doc is taken
[ 20:35:23 ] Ripard Teg > You hint a little bit when you use words like "infiltrate", but you don't come out and SAY anything.
[ 20:35:38 ] strategist > People can read it and count it as class A bullshit for all I care
[ 20:35:40 ] Ripard Teg > notsureifserious.jpg
[ 20:35:44 ] Ripard Teg > ;-)
[ 20:35:49 ] strategist > It's true
[ 20:36:26 ] strategist > I just wanted some well written general overview for the annuals of EVE's collective history. Like most of the writing you'll see, there is nothing stopping you from calling bullshit on it
[ 20:36:31 ] Ripard Teg > OK, let me try a different approach, then.  You wrote this thing.  Who is the target audience?
[ 20:36:48 ] strategist > I guess people interested in the underbelly.
[ 20:37:04 ] strategist > The kind of people who'd read these things in the first place
[ 20:37:24 ] Ripard Teg > I'm hugely interested in that, and I don't understand large swaths of this doc.
[ 20:37:41 ] Ripard Teg > A) Because I don't recognize some of the names, because I wasn't here for this part of EVE's history; and,
[ 20:38:09 ] Ripard Teg > B) Because you aren't specific enough about things.  Let's take one para in particular.
[ 20:38:23 ] Ripard Teg > This is 2006-2007, I assume, from the doc's context:
[ 20:38:31 ] Ripard Teg > "Well, except for when I was being paid to infiltrate. You get quite an interesting mark on your balance sheets when the alliance you are infiltrating is paying you more than your actual bosses - but the loot you get..." (cont)
[ 20:38:42 ] Ripard Teg > "from collapsing such an alliance is worth it."
[ 20:39:05 ] Ripard Teg > I'd get very specific there.  I collapsed alliance X.  This is how I did it.  This is how I profited from it.
[ 20:39:10 ] strategist > Was a general comment, I've infiltrated a few. LV was a big one, actually.
[ 20:39:36 ] strategist > I never directly collapsed an alliance, simply gave intel to the right people while flipping two paychecks
[ 20:39:49 ] Ripard Teg > Then you should say that: this is what I was paid to do, this is who paid me, this is what I did, this is how it turned out.
[ 20:40:09 ] Ripard Teg > Mittens gets mileage from this kind of crap because he joyfully gives specifics, but he's careful only to give specifics years after it'll do anyone any damn good.
[ 20:40:12 ] Ripard Teg > You should do the same.
[ 20:40:36 ] strategist > Oh Mittens how I love your media frenzies.
[ 20:40:49 ] strategist > He's nuked most of his ability to do anything he prides himself on, you know
[ 20:41:17 ] Ripard Teg > ::shrugs::  I'm giving you a neutral observer's perspective here.  If you publish this thing, as is, there might be ten or twelve people in all of EVE that will understand it.  They'll find it highly entertaining.
[ 20:41:30 ] Ripard Teg > Then there will be 5000 people who say "Hm, interesting, if it's true."  That's where I am.
[ 20:41:39 ] Ripard Teg > And then there will be 25,000 people who sniff and say "bullshit."  ;-)
[ 20:42:04 ] Ripard Teg > And yes, I agree.  But you say you're retiring.
[ 20:42:10 ] Ripard Teg > So where's the harm in doing the same?  ;-)
[ 20:42:32 ] strategist > Honestly, that isn't my sticking point
[ 20:44:05 ] strategist > The sticking point is basically that after eight years of doing it, the majority of the details have slipped into the grey of my injured brain
[ 20:44:34 ] strategist > Can you sit there and honestly tell me you remember every call you made in 07 or 08? ;)
[ 20:45:18 ] strategist > I can name the big calls
[ 20:45:19 ] Ripard Teg > Every call?  No.  A call that netted me 50 billion ISK?  I suspect I'd remember a few details.  ;-)
[ 20:45:28 ] strategist > JV1V was one of mine
[ 20:45:40 ] strategist > (as an example)
[ 20:45:50 ] Ripard Teg > Elaborate.  ;-)
[ 20:46:20 ] strategist > running out of LV space with two command ship BPOs and an exhumer BPO was also great fun 9along with countless others)
[ 20:46:43 ] Ripard Teg > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy1kofLY0RA
[ 20:46:47 ] Ripard Teg > ^-- You talking about that?
[ 20:47:07 ] strategist > No
[ 20:47:44 ] Ripard Teg > ::nods::  That's the only significant link on Google that references JV1V
[ 20:47:50 ] strategist > After that. Long story short, RA and co rapetrained JV1V and took out a titan while the POS was pregnant
[ 20:48:15 ] strategist > was a big deal at the time, as RA locked out the system entirely - the gate wouldnt allow anyone else to jump in due to population
[ 20:48:25 ] strategist > was word of CCP involvement etc
[ 20:48:51 ] strategist > trust me I'm suprised at the lack of detail as well, then again the LV directorship was very very good at hiding their own shit
[ 20:49:24 ] Ripard Teg > I'd tell some of the details that you do know/remember.  LV is long dead.  I don't think they're gonna care.  ;-)
[ 20:50:36 ] strategist > Heh, the only details that matter are that they gave everything to me, down to the locations of their supercap production facilities and production plans. Word to RA, a quick plan on how to lock out the system...
[ 20:50:43 ] strategist > ...and well, the rest is history
[ 20:50:55 ] strategist > Was the start of the complete downfall of LV that one, they never really recovered
[ 20:50:59 ] Ripard Teg > No, the rest is forgotten.  ;-)
[ 20:51:37 ] strategist > Well, they lost their main supercap production facilities
[ 20:51:45 ] Ripard Teg > http://eve-history.net/wiki/index.php/Lotka_Volterra
[ 20:52:02 ] Ripard Teg > ^-- this 300 word article is the only thing anyone like me knows about LV, other than "red pen".
[ 20:51:55 ] strategist > back when it was a big fucking deal to have so much as a single titan in your alliance
[ 20:53:46 ] strategist > oh god that fucking mail
[ 20:53:48 ] Ripard Teg > And there's a treasure trove of info about LV compared to Curse Alliance.  CA is totally, completely forgotten.
[ 20:53:59 ] strategist > course it would be, it died in 05
[ 20:54:35 ] Ripard Teg > ::nods::  But that's where you begin your story.
[ 20:54:50 ] strategist > There is little to say of curse alliance
[ 20:55:01 ] Ripard Teg > ::grins::  You're missing my point.
[ 20:55:11 ] strategist > I'm aware of your point ;)
[ 20:55:18 ] strategist > If you start somewhere, you should establish where it is
[ 20:55:31 ] Ripard Teg > My point is that you're not providing any detail or context to go with your story, so the major reaction to it is going to be "eh".
[ 20:55:58 ] Ripard Teg > That's why it's going to come off sounding like BS to most people, and even the people inclined to believe it are going to be saying "Yes?  And?"
[ 20:56:34 ] strategist > To be honest
[ 20:56:40 ] strategist > I don't mind the latter
[ 20:57:00 ] strategist > If I wanted to go out with a bang, I would take the entirety of Goon's 2012/2013 plan and release it publically
[ 20:57:34 ] strategist > I just wanted to get something on paper =)
[ 20:57:37 ] Ripard Teg > "And step one is murdering cops?!  What's step two, the neutron bomb?!"  "No, I think we can find a middle ground."
[ 20:57:52 ] Ripard Teg > ::coughs::  Sorry.  Die Hard 2.  I enjoy quoting old movies.  ;-)
[ 20:57:54 ] strategist > Yea, the fuel-air bomb.
[ 20:58:03 ] strategist > I am aware of the movie and I love it so.
[ 20:58:50 ] Ripard Teg > Point to this quote is that I think you can find some juicy details that are between "eh" and "Goon's 2012/2013 plan" that will make your story pop more and make it less likely to be dismissed.
[ 20:59:01 ] Ripard Teg > Some kind of middle ground.  ;-)
[ 20:59:32 ] Ripard Teg > You can say "I don't care if it's dismissed"... but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't believe it if you did.  ;-)
[ 21:00:06 ] strategist > If I cared about fame, I wouldn't have gone to extreme measured to hide for so many years ;)
[ 21:00:20 ] Ripard Teg > There's a difference between fame and recognition.
[ 21:09:10 ] strategist > The issue with recognition is that, like many things, it can cause problems
[ 21:10:23 ] Ripard Teg > Maybe, but I think the chances are pretty freakin' slim, if you're buried behind the number of alts you say you are.  Even if you said "I did X", who's going to have records of alts that were in corps four years ago?
[ 21:10:49 ] Ripard Teg > But hey, I've made my point.  Where you take it is up to you.
[ 21:11:02 ] strategist > I understand your point, and it just makes me love you more
[ 21:11:14 ] Ripard Teg > LOL  Well, doesn't mean we're engaged or anything.  ;-)
[ 21:11:20 ] strategist > Hah

Later, after a discussion about how to publish the document...

[ 21:17:12 ] strategist > I have an idea
[ 21:18:30 ] strategist > I find it a lot easier to talk about events when asked things. That's another issue I have. I can plan, happily, but I need prompts for discussion as I tend to be a reserved person.
[ 21:20:44 ] strategist > May I ask a favour, or pay for it
[ 21:21:14 ] Ripard Teg > Ask away.
[ 21:23:25 ] strategist > I'm willing to answer most questions I'm asked, all they have to be is sent to the right person.
[ 21:24:50 ] strategist > If I ask a favour I intend on repaying, any chance you can publish it as is, and send it to white rose? Any comments you wish to make about it are your own, my only request is you make it clear that i'm willing to answer...
[ 21:25:06 ] strategist > ...most if not all questions sent via evemail to ThatShyGirl
[ 21:25:19 ] strategist > (Another alt of mine =) )
[ 21:25:34 ] Ripard Teg > I gathered.  ;-)
[ 21:25:42 ] strategist > only one of my reprocess alts are still alive and thats only cus it's still being used
[ 21:25:52 ] strategist > so I'm throwing market and production alts xD
[ 21:26:01 ] Ripard Teg > And sure, sounds like an interesting compromise.
[ 21:26:09 ] strategist > I'm just
[ 21:26:31 ] strategist > For someone great with strategy, I'm terrible at description, y'know?
[ 21:26:49 ] Ripard Teg > Heh.
[ 21:27:05 ] strategist > I know. Built a house on sand etc
[ 21:27:42 ] strategist > I'm sorry to ask this, and if there is anything I can do
[ 21:28:29 ] Ripard Teg > Give me 10 billion ISK and a puppy.  You've got trillions.  You won't miss it.  :-P
[ 21:28:57 ] strategist > I would definitely miss the puppy. It's my puppy =(
[ 21:29:11 ] Ripard Teg > See?  You don't care about 10 billion ISK.  ;-)


[ 22:00:19 ] Ripard Teg > With regard to your doc, you want to send me an edited copy, or do you want me to edit it?
[ 22:09:15 ] strategist > The dropbox link I originally provided already has the edits you sent to me
[ 22:09:24 ] strategist > i can send it agian if you want?
[ 22:09:31 ] Ripard Teg > Yeah, please do.
[ 22:09:37 ] Ripard Teg > Didn't save the link, just the doc.
[ 22:09:46 ] strategist > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21467805/Recordings/The_Story_of_the_Master_Strategist.rtf
[ 22:10:04 ] strategist > Thankfully this should be the last time I call upon the blogging community in any form
[ 22:10:07 ] strategist > I hate being a burden
[ 22:12:15 ] Ripard Teg > And do you mind if I cut and paste the key portions from this convo into the post?
[ 22:12:42 ] strategist > Course not, though I respectfully request you replace XXXX with ThatShyGirl where applicable

And for the record, nope, I never did get that 10 billion ISK.  Well, not so far, anyway...  ;-)


  1. you know, them only thing that makes me even vaguely suspect this is real is the complete lack of detail. if somebody was just trying to artificially inflate their e-peen you'd think they'd be tempted to make even just one actual /claim/ instead of prancing circuitously around ethereal meta-claims. whether this is 'real' or not i guess it must amount to some kind of coded shout-out written in what is essentially a private language.

    1. There exist personality types (and mentally disordered persons) that get off on the idea of spinning yarns of fancy and fantasy -- yet unlike the blatanly narcissistic types who will brag about things they've never done (or, better yet, impossible to do given the circumstances), there's a whole different breed that loves being "shrouded in secrecy".
      That works, because the "mythos" lures people in, they get attention (which is generally what they want--it's just more passive in its form), AND conveniently never have to worry about being called on their bullshit, because they never provide specific enough facts to actually "pick apart".

      Typical narcissistic blowhard: "Yeah, I was in the Air Force. I was a Staff Sergeant and flew SH-3s the 160th SOAR. Green Berets took me in after an op in Myanmatar went south and I bailed a bunch of those guys out."
      Average Joe who doesn't know better: "Wow, man, that's cool...I wish I could do shit like that, you sure are a Real Murrican Hero just like GI Joe!" *narcissist has ego fed, puffs up, yay him*
      Someone who knows something picking him apart: "Yeah enlisted people haven't been pilots since WWII. The 160th SOAR is an ARMY Regiment, not Air Force, and most of their pilots are Warrant Officers. Also the SH-3 WAS a Navy helicopter, the last squadron of which was decommissioned back in the 90s. Oh and when and where did you do QC? ;-) "

      The Super Secret Life of Walter Mitty: "Yep, I was in. Green Berets. Rough work, that. We did some crazy shit."
      Average Joe: "Yeah? like what?"
      Walt: "It's all real classified like. I could tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya. Nothing personal, but you know."
      Joe: "Well, yeah, but...you musta done some shit you can talk about without givin it all away right? It's just me, man, I won't tell..."
      Walt: "Ok... so this one time we're infiltrating an enemy base..."
      Joe: "Where? When? Who were the bad guys?"
      Walt: "Can't tell you that, man. So we infiltrate this base, and one of the bad guys sneaks up on my pal...so he don't know I'm right behind him, slip in real quiet, then SNAP! Broke his neck!"
      Joe: "Wow, man. That's some crazy shit. Wish I could've been a Real Murrican Hero like you..."
      -->Again the ego feeding, the attention....but this time...
      Someone who knows something trying to pick Walt apart: "So you were a Greenhat huh? What SFG? When? Who was your lead instructor at QC? Hell, what was your MOS?"
      Walt: "If you know, man, you know. Don't need to ask that. Besides, you know we can't talk about that shit in front of civilians..."

      Just using that as an example, but you could play the same game as Secret Agent Man/International Man of Mystery, or The Dude Who Really Runs EVE.

    2. Good point Hong. It reminded me of that brilliant clip from Jack Dee:

  2. Re: the comment about no one flat out calling BS because someone has proof or "was there"... Not really surprising because there's not much in the original doc to call BS on. Even events that can be pinpointed i doubt many "real" participants would nail at the door of one individual (was a combination of factors).

    one other point: serious or not, the author already demonstrated that he reneged on 10billion (e.g. example of bad faith).

    But really there's so much in the original doc that just reads as bad fiction and doesn't pass the "real world" test (even in the context of the game) that I'm surprised that it was published...

    1. The 10 billion part is what did it for me. If you have trillions of ISK, why not use a few percent of it to stop an annoying interviewer who just cannot accept how amazing you are :)

  3. In case you're still curious as to what the JV1V reference was pointing to.


    After that, LV morale was shattered and a textbook failure cascade began. You can mine the links for more ancient history if that interests you. I wish there was a book on EVE history, because it would be a fascinating read.

  4. God damn, you can be an idiot. 'No one called bullshit' - I did, and I was there for JV1V. I even commented as such in the thread.

    There is no 'strategist'. The only turtle in this story is you and your desire to believe in some idiot's wank-fantasy about puppetmastering.

    Hired by RA for guidance? Oh wait, let me just ask Death or Nync or Mactep about that. You know, the guys who ran RA back then.

    Come the fuck on, Jester. Seriously. Are you now going to reply to me eyerolling about this foolishness as ~more evidence that it's real~? Another ~level of the metagame~?

    Occam's razor works in EVE, too.

    1. Obviously, I am a dumb ass.~

      I DID say that people called BS. I say it right in this post, and I say it in the previous post that it would be said. And I grant that you were one of them in the comments for the previous post.

      What you and nobody else did -- unless I'm just a moron and missed it -- is say anything specific other than "obviously not true."

      Perhaps you could explain how it is obviously not true? Something as simple as "I asked Death about this, and he said it's not true." Did you say that, or anything like that, and I missed it? Cripes, it's not like that's a really hard thing for you to do.

    2. A policeman observes an individual tearing up newspapers and throwing the torn up pieces of newspaper on the ground. She approaches the individual and accuses him of littering.

      "I'm not littering!" says the individual

      "You're tearing up newspaper and throwing it on the ground," challenges the policeman.

      "This isn't littering! It's my elephant repellent technique!" states the individual.

      The policeman counters, "But there are no elephants in this town, and there are no elephants in this country!"

      "See? It works!"

    3. Before any statements can be accepted as fact, Jester, it is important that they be verifiable. It is up to the claimant to support the claim.

      I could claim that I am the best lover in the world. You will not find anyone who will call bullshit on that matter. Why?

    4. A random guy writes a file saying dragons exist somewhere on earth, but claims he cannot give any details about where this might be because it would attract too many poachers and tourists who would destroy the ecosystem.

      You make an analysis of it and see nothing obviously wrong in it, so you post it on internet hoping someone shows a "proof of non-existence" of the dragons.

      Then a subject matter on existing species comes and says the claim is ridiculous, to which you answer: "Well, so you say, but you didn't give any hard proof on that".

      Of course, you could be just trying to lure someone that would say: "dragons don't exist, because I killed the last one. Here is the API verified killmail"

    5. "What you and nobody else did -- unless I'm just a moron and missed it -- is say anything specific other than "obviously not true.""

      Alliances don't hire strategic consultants. I've never heard of it. I've been involved in quite a few alliance directorates via spies, not to mention allied almost every major power at one point or another. IIRC this was pointed out in the replies.

      The very idea of 'alliances hire me for strategy' is utterly laughable, as there's simply no such thing. Then he cites JV1V and RA, and oh wait I was actually in command channels for JV1V and helped run the LV war from the GSF side.

      His entire wank fantasy relies on the idea that he cites events 'too old for people to remember'. I remember JV1V like yesterday, it was our first major Titan abortion.

    6. I don't often agree with Mittens. In fact hardly ever. He's just too moronic.

      But I was in fact still playing this horrible game during the early stuff he's boasting about, i.e., the early years (before I got out of 0.0). And I don't remember there ever being a 'strategist' or something similar involved in any of that.

      No one 'hires a strategist', not then, and I doubt now. Mostly because there's not a lot that a 'strategist' can do. There's not that much 'strategising' to do anyway. But more so because of how 'leadership' works in something like a corps or alliance in EVE: it is grown internally, and it matures on bullshit.

      So there's just a lot of shouting, e-peen waving, and a lot of people going: "I'm not gonna waste my time on that" if they aren't convinced on a 'strategy' or a plan of action.

      The only way to 'herd the cats' is to convince them to follow your plan. You can only do that if people know you and you can talk-the-talk. No 'hired' strategist would ever be able to do that because everyone else would go: "Who's that numpty telling us what to do? Where did he come from?" He'd just never have the clout to do anything. It was that way then, and even though I don't play this horrible game anymore, I doubt it is any different now.

      Now, hiring FC for PLEX or just raw money. That's another matter. But that's about executing a play, not calling the shots.

      In short: he's just piling on the bullshit. He knows nothing ...

  5. NO ONE WAS THERE FOR XETIC OR LV (except for most of the people still in charge of nullsec alliances today)

    1. Basic spying lessons (among others provided by you) tell to take ownership of the work of others if it provides you an advantage. What's your advantage?

  6. As you've pointed out before, Jester, he's so vague and a lot of this stuff that he mentions is in 'ancient history' (as far as Eve goes), that it becomes 'meh' to me.

    I mean, great, if this guy did all this stuff, cool, I'm not going to get excited over a lot of vagueness. If he wants to keep quiet about all of it, that's fine. If he wants to write some sort of 'Eve deathbed confessional' thing, that's fine too, I can patiently wait until it's released.

  7. 'strategist' is full of shit. Interestingly, there are a lot of similarities between his behavior patterns and those of someone else that you and I have discussed once or twice in personal conversations.

    Hey, strategist: Real proof or STFU.

  8. It was an interesting read, but more on the side of interesting fantasy than believable reality. It reads like someone who is overly impressed with himself and expects everyone else to be just as awe-struck.

    I like your blogs, Jester. This guy feels like he's not worth an minute of your time.

  9. Master Baiter/Strategist reckons it can release the Goons 2012 plan? So where is it?

    The only other person I know who publicly expresses his love for his puppy above everything else, and has access to the Goons "plans" for 2012, has already commented on this thread and called it bullshit.

    Which leads one to think that it's a COINTELPRO, trying to fish out the guy who actually leaked certain information that was alluded to in the first report.


    1. Mara, I thought this was a counter intelligence operation too. But if it was the case the operator would have had certain people in mind, or at least a certain group. And he would have had included in his document specific information to make them come out of the woods. Such as : "I stole 8 sleipnir BPOs from station AH12 when Alliance Red Penguin collapsed". The mole comes out and say : "No you didn't, because I did! You idiot!". And then the operator plays whack-a-mole :D
      This document (and the conversation too) is too generic for that.

  10. This guy kind of reminds me of the CSM for CCP. As large allainces need there own CSM to help stay on top of things. Instead of free trips to icealand, he get own ratting space and lots of isk.

  11. Plus a director could have hired him or so. Then the director uses his knowledge to impress the CEO and gain some reputation. Some alliances CEOs might never even heard of him as well.

  12. Still doesn't pass the sniff test.

  13. Again, things said in this post point towards who I think it is, and if it is them then I can believe it. His public alt is reasonably well known, and anyone who can do a little detective work should be able to join the ...'s to find out who it is.

    The alternative is someone using his details as a framework for a false identity (tinfoil).

    Still, nice to know you're not actually quitting the game, only some of your behind the scenes work.

  14. Aww, this was actually pretty interesting after the initial document. Here though, it seems obvious that the guy either made the whole thing up or is vastly overstating the level of his involvement. How disappointing!

  15. http://eve-live.com/p/ThatShyGirl


    http://arockcalledsteve.wordpress.com/2011/09/02/the-shallow-blame/#more-144 (scroll down to comments + compare to first link "theo")

    [please remove this line before posting if possible: Dog Green 1492]

    1. [ 22:12:42 ] strategist > Course not, though I respectfully request you replace XXXX with ThatShyGirl where applicable

    2. and? he says he's outing his commercial/industrial characters.

    3. So? Presumably this is more disinformation is it?


      He's solo but now he's in an alliance.

  16. I think this Master Strategist is just some Slavic guy who wanted to be featured on Jester's blog.

    It has already been pointed out in the comments of the previous post that this guy cannot be British. But nobody seems to have ticked more than that on his language: lack of phrasal verbs, lack of idioms. These two tend to indicate a non-native speaker. And the grammar reminds me of a foreign language, but not the latin-based ones. So I thought Slavic, from what I had seen from Russian guys on Local. And what confirmed it for me is this: "thats only cus it's still being used". Who uses "cus" these days ? A search on google produced this: http://www.english-test.net/forum/ftopic25780.html "English speakers in my home country (Serbia) are under the total influence of spoken English in American or English movies and series. (We do not do dubbing sound in any circumstances – always and only subtitles). So people eventually, unconsciously start to write what they hear and what got in their heads and what just SOUNDS right. Plenty of mistakes there."
    And why claim that "Out of game communications like Skype are my greatest tools.", but then not use it with Jester? And that would also be the reason why EN24 was out of the question, since Riverini is also a non-native speaker, he would have noticed it straight away.

    Another reason why he didn't go to EN24 is that he wanted to be on this blog. Jester has become a bit of a celebrity in our corner of the interweb, so Master S. wanted to have his 15 minutes in the spotlight :) Or he's a fanboi who wanted to talk to his star: "strategist > I understand your point, and it just makes me love you more".

    So I think there's not more to it than that. No puppet master, no counter intelligence operation, just a person who craved a bit of recognition.

  17. It seems like you raised many of the same points with the 'stratergist' as we did. I agree with you that it is frustrating nobody can say "He didn't do that... I did!" But he provides so few concrete details, apart from name dropping a few alliances of yore that it is difficult for anyone to call his bluff.

    But the core question isn't whether they played EVE back in 2005. I'd say its certainly possible, if not probable that they did. But that isn't the claim we are interested in - what we want to know is are they really this supposed mastermind/stratergist. And that question they seem unable to answer (and by proxy, we are unable to disprove.)

    My gut feeling is you knew this was a 90+% probability of BS. What you were hoping was someone would jump out and say "haha! it was not you for it was me! " But the trouble is, this guys claims are so outlandish it's like saying "I'm responsible for the tides" and expecting someone else to rightfully take credit instead.

    I'm sure you know from your own alliance dealings that the rise and fall of alliances tends to be complex and multifactoral. You've said yourself in the past that most alliances end up collapsing due to insidious internal rot rather than any particular event or architect of their demise.

  18. There are absolutely no details in that document Jester -nothing. You can get more meat for a story from the average Nigerian email scammer...

  19. Reminds me of Rene Descartes' Evil Genius. Its a very old theme that's been played out a few times.

    Even if the evil genius reveals himself, he has so thoroughly convinced his subject of the false reality that the actual reality is meaningless.

  20. Well, someone might know something, but it is not the strategist. He said basically nothing, and backed even less. He MIGHT be an older player, but he has heard a bunch of Eve history, doesn't know all the details or players, so stays vague enough in what he does know so that no one can call bullshit.

    I think the armchair psychiatrists nailed it. He's a nobody. He has volunteered himself to be a reluctant target of Eve-fame, and gets his jollies from pretending to be a mover and shaker in Eve. Lame and fail, mind you, we're talking about him, so he's got that much on us.

  21. Well the biggest thing I noticed is he seemed to be overwilling to flatter Jester and just kind of lead him along.

    [ 20:57:52 ] Ripard Teg > ::coughs:: Sorry. Die Hard 2. I enjoy quoting old movies. ;-)
    [ 20:57:54 ] strategist > Yea, the fuel-air bomb.
    [ 20:58:03 ] strategist > I am aware of the movie and I love it so.

    Jester's enthusiasm is fairly obvious and rather than approaching with true pragmatism and skepticism, he plays the role of a skeptic that wants to be convinced.

    I read the article and find that Jester fills in the blanks for the strategist rather than the other way around like it should be. Its the same trick that palm readers use.

  22. To be fair to good ol' Jesty, a fair bit of the interview did put the master blaster on the defensive.
    I did prefer the interview because we can see how Jester tries to get him to give a few nuggets of information :) Which leads me to think Jester knew there was a 99% chance this was all fiction, but that 1% was worth giving it a try. And given the amount of comments, it looks like it was the right decision :P

  23. Obvious strategist-wannebe.

    The Mittani - :o - has given the correct reply: Occam's Razor.

    Very unlikely story, so it requires pretty solid evidence to give it any credence. Why would you hire out for strategy? That's the last thing you want to outsource. And also usually the last thing ego-maniacs like CEO's and spy masters think themselves uncapable of. People in charge in 0.0 believe themselves to be good at strategy, whether true or not, and won't pay for being advised by sbd. else.

    Does not compute.

  24. I would like to point out something in the chat that is very interesting:

    "[ 21:17:12 ] strategist > I have an idea
    [ 21:18:30 ] strategist > I find it a lot easier to talk about events when asked things. That's another issue I have. I can plan, happily, but I need prompts for discussion as I tend to be a reserved person."

    This, to me, was a giant red flag. As someone who has done many "cons" both in Eve and other games, I can tell you for a fact this is clear evidence he is making shit up. Basically, when you are spinning a yarn you need to know:
    a) What the audience already knows about the situation
    b) What the audience is interested in / wants to hear

    He can't simply say "I infiltrated alliance X, stole A and B and it happened on Y date" because he is open to someone going "erm, m8? Bullshit." What he needs to hear is "I didn't know alliance X fell like that, tell me more" to which he is free to talk about insignificant details, as if remembering them fondly.

    Basically, he needs *material* onto which to build his tower of bullshit. I know nothing about the alliances of that era of Eve, but a few reads of a Wiki and I could do a much more convincing interview as a master spy than this clown. He's amateur hour in the league of making shit up :)

    There are other obvious 'tells' of a liar, too (avoids the logic of not answering, misdirection, etc).

    Jester, I am disappointed you got sucked into this, really :(


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