Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Tuesday, March 27, 2012


By now, you've almost certainly read one or more stories about what happened at the Alliance Panel on Thursday, Fanfest Day One.  If you haven't, then I strongly recommend Liang Nuren's excellent summation of the facts.  As is my custom on this blog, I will give you some background, then summarize what happened Thursday in my own words.  Then, the opinion part.  Why yes, this is a long post.  ;-)

The Alliance Panel is a Fanfest tradition: it is an extremely M-rated event where six or seven representatives from EVE alliances are given the opportunity to brag on themselves for 8-10 minutes each, usually while drunk.  Alcohol is a big part of the Alliance Panel, as is biting humor, sarcasm, and satire.  Names are named.  People, corps, and alliances are mercilessly mocked.  It is -- by far -- the most EVE-like part of Fanfest, where people bring their in-game personas and leave their real selves at the door.  A CCP employee is present as an ornament, but usually has little impact on the proceedings.  All they can do is smile and hang on, because the least nice people in EVEdom -- alliance leaders -- are in the driver's seat.

The Alliance Panel is always roundly hysterical.

And truths are told.  Oh my yes, truths are indeed told.  In vino veritas.

Fairly legendary among the Alliance Panel presentations is the one given by Darius JOHNSON, at that time CEO of Goonfleet (now CCP Sreegs), at Fanfest in 2009.  He showed up very late, in a ridiculously bad costume, obviously drunk and/or stoned out of his mind, and without speaker notes.  And then, off the cuff -- and after describing The Mittani as a pseudo-intelligent douche-bag! -- delivered one of the funniest and most memorable presentations ever done at that panel.  It is the source of the famous Goonswarm mantra: "Our goal is not to destroy the game.  At the end of the day, our goal is to destroy your game." as well as the meme "Giant dicks are cost effective."  And then he dominated the entire Q&A session.  Nobody seemed to want to talk to anyone else.

Think it bothers Mittens -- who prides himself on his ability to present and communicate -- that the most memorable Goonswarm presentation ever done at the panel wasn't done by him?  Bet you he'd deny it and say that he's just happy that it was a Goonswarm presentation that's most remembered.  Also bet you my left thumb he'd be lying when he said this.

So that's point number one to remember: the Alliance Panel is alcohol-driven, but it is also ego-driven.  Every alliance looks to outdo the ones that have presented before.  Enough background.

What actually happened Thursday afternoon?  The Alliance Panel at this year's Fanfest opened casually with a presentation from EVE University, but then jumped into a pair of excellent presentations by a pair of wormhole-based alliances.  Without getting into a lot of details, the first was well-organized and -presented, and funny as hell, but more or less traditional.  The second was entirely a series of unusual "ransoms": recordings of the national anthems of a half-dozen countries, sung by EVE players who were told that if they sang, the ship or system being threatened would be left alone.  In both cases, names were named, and individual EVE players were subject to ridicule.  By the end of it, the audience was rolling.  A great deal of alcohol was visible on the table throughout, and Mittens (who was to present last) didn't drink lightly.

At several points, he was heard to say to each presenter after the W-space guys, "There's no way we're beating that."  Still, Gentlemen's Agreement did a pretty fair job, and TEST's MB3 did a fine job.  The pressure was on.

Last year, Mittens presented at Fanfest 2011 for Goonswarm.  Let's be clear: his presentation wasn't bad.  But it was extremely pedestrian and unfunny.  It was also... gasp... a serious examination of Goonswarm history!  No alcohol was in evidence!  Yes!  At the Alliance Panel!  Believe it or not, if you're looking to learn the history of Goonswarm, this presentation is the best place to do it.  But it sure didn't fit with the format or the audience.  It made an impression, but that impression was negative.

Mittens was definitely looking to improve his performance this year.

He gets a lot of mileage out of forum porn on his Ten Ton Hammer column and on kugu, and obviously decided to bring that to the Alliance Panel this year.  Alcohol would be consumed.  Names would be named.  Truths would be told.

Really, there was only one problem with The Mittani's performance in 2011: The Mittani didn't show up.  Instead, a guy named Alex showed up.

Want to annoy Mittens?  Want to really annoy him?  Refer to him by his real name on the Internet.  He'll never, ever admit this, but it drives him wild.  You see, there are actually three people at war with each other in this situation.  Three personas, if you will:
  • The Mittani, former spy, who is the fearsome and scary head of the Clusterfuck Coalition, the largest mass of EVE players ever to play the game, and the largest mass of griefers and gankers in EVE history;
  • Mittens, the almost-but-not-quite fuzzy, cuddly friendly Chair of the CSM; and,
  • Alex.  He was a lawyer at one time.
Make no mistake: these are three different hats.  And they don't go well together.  They clash terribly.  As a matter of fact, they may well be incompatible.  After all, by definition, the Chair of the CSM has to be a player advocate... a nice guy... a champion of the people.  The leader of Goonswarm has to be a dick... someone who wants to grief and gank the people.

On Thursday night, The Mittani showed up to the Alliance Panel.  Oh my yes, he did indeed.  And you know, what?  It was perfectly appropriate for him to do so, you see: The Mittani leads Goonswarm.  The Mittani is not the Chair of the CSM.  Back to what happened.

During the presentation, The Mittani presented a great deal of forum and chat porn while outrageously mocking those that produced it.  It was damned funny, but it was also quite mean, almost savagely so.  During the presentation, one such bit of EVE mail porn centered on a player that had lost a large number of Mackinaws to Goon gankers, and said he was upset because he had recently gotten divorced and ice mining was the only thing that relaxed him and settled his mind.  As humor, this was borderline stuff.  Mittens was visibly pounding back J√§gerbombs and at one point commented that he was not drunk enough yet to present this material.

Alex was objecting, and possibly, so was Mittens.  We've seen a kinder, gentler Mittens this year.

The Mittani was having none of it and pressed on.

Now, do not get me wrong: I am not saying there was any level of schizophrenia here.  At all.  I'm simply saying that The Mittani persona came out, got drunk, and gave a very Goon presentation.  It was borderline, but savagely funny.  It couldn't have been any more different from 2011.  The problem came at the Q&A session.  The Mittani didn't just cross the line.  In the immortal words of John Roarke, he lept over it that day.  I briefly quote Liang Nuren's transcript of the event:
The Q&A is where all the interesting parts are anyway (@1:11:30):
  • Questioneer: Just something about the guy with 22 accounts.  I think he moved to the Drone Regions and now he’s got kicked out of there as well.
  • The Mittani: Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is [name]. It's [spells the name].  He has his own corp.  Find him.
What we have here at this point is not The Mittani naming names.  What we have here is him directly encouraging EVE players to harass a potentially mentally-unstable individual into a rash act.


Mittens claims to have no direct memory of the event until shown a transcript, and I believe him.  He also says that he despises people who use the words "I was drunk" as an excuse, and I believe that, too.  He has abjectly (and I believe, sincerely) apologized.  He has made an act of contrition toward the pilot affected, saying he's given this player 10.7 billion ISK in compensation, and the player in question has apparently confirmed the gift.

And Mittens has quietly offered to "resign", though whether that means "resign from the CSM" or "resign from being the Chair of the CSM, but not from the CSM itself", he has left open to interpretation.

If you've read more than a few posts in my blog, you know that I love quotes from movies, particularly quotes from bad movies.  The one that sprung unerringly to mind in this situation is from a little flick called EdTV.  Made years before the first reality show, it tells the story of a man who is hired by a network to put his entire life, 24/7, on TV.  Late one night while nervous on a date, Ed (the star of the show) is spontaneously making out with his date on a dining room table when -- in the throes of passion -- he rolls off the table.  A pained cat's meow is heard on Ed's landing and the date ends with Ed transported to the hospital and the cat to the vet.  On live TV.  Commiserating later, one of his buddies offers some sympathy:
John: Look, Ed, you put anybody on television sixteen hours a day, and sooner or later they're going to fall off a table and land on a cat.

Mittens feels awful about what's happened, and I believe that completely.  You put anyone in the spotlight for this long, and sooner or later, they're going to fall off a table and land on a cat.  It's now happened.

And it happened to the CSM Chair.

But not while he was wearing the CSM Chair hat.  This is critical!

Remember, this incident happened in the context of The Mittani's role and duties as the leader of Goonswarm.  The Chair of the CSM was not present.  "Jester, you idiot, they're the same person!" you say, and sure, yeah, that's true.  But kinda, not really, too.

Here's the truth of the matter, kids, and pay attention, because this is important: people are human.  Even smart people.  They make mistakes.  People occasionally do really stupid, dumb-ass things.  There's no "save game" button in real life, and no check-point that you can roll back to.  And if you jump immediately to "fire him" every time someone makes a mistake, you're not going to have very many people left around you.  If you do something stupid, all you can do is apologize and try to make it right.

The Mittani dropped character, became Alex, and is doing that.  And I sincerely believe that he means it.  Does that mean The Mittani is gone?  Hell no, he'll be back.

Bad pennies always turn up.

But Alex is back there trying to make this right.  Let's talk consequences.

Should Mittens lose his position as CSM Chair over this?  My feeling is no, he should not.  His offer to resign is noble, but not warranted.  There should definitely be consequences from this, and the act of contrition and the ISK are a great start.  But he should not lose his CSM position nor his Chairmanship over this in my opinion.  Smart people do dumb things.  Bill Clinton performed a sex act with a woman not his wife in the White House.  No one has died here, been harmed, or been publicly humiliated in real life.  There's a blue dress here, sure.  I doubt Mittens will be wearing a wizard hat or drinking to excess again any time soon.  And an EVE player nobody knew has been thrust into the spotlight, but he doesn't currently seem to be in any danger of suicide.  In fact, aside from a little bit of apathy (which I'm told by someone with reason to know is actually a bit troubling), he doesn't seem overly impacted or troubled by this at all.  I've looked at the EVE Terms of Service, and it would take a real dick to try to argue that they've been breached.

At least, not any more than Goons breach them routinely.

Will Mittens resign from the CSM, or from the Chairmanship?  He very well might.  As I said, the hat that the leader of Goonswarm must wear doesn't fit well with the hat that the CSM Chair must wear.  You might even argue that to be good at one job, you are by definition being bad at the other job, and vice versa.

Still, there's no question that Mittens has been a fine CSM Chair and an excellent player advocate.  I might grumble at his methods and his arrogance, but there's no question that they've been effective.  Hell, I'd argue that we need him in that Chair.  As I've already said and will elaborate on in the coming week or so, this is going to be an important year for EVE players... maybe the most important year in EVE's history.  We need a strong advocate.  Mittens is the right person, in the right place, at the right time.  He might feel the need to resign his CSM Chairmanship over this, but I sincerely hope he doesn't.

And this is me saying it.  ;-)  I've had my reasons to be skeptical of Mittens, but I was wrong and I don't mind admitting that.  He's made a believer out of me.  Mittens, I hope you'll stay on.  I like Two Step, but we need you.

We do need to see how CCP (and possibly just as important, Sony) react to this.  As I write this, the work day is just starting in Reyk and in London.  We'll see how it plays out.  The next 12 hours or so are critical.

Should there be further consequences?  Yes, there should, in my opinion.  Mittens was acting as a representative of Goonswarm in this matter.  I suggest a hefty fine, and a ban from the Alliance Panel at Fanfest 2013.  Goons have presented the last three FFs anyway.  Let them build up some more stories and present again in 2014.  And the fine will be a deterrent to another alliance trying to push the boundaries next year.  But the Alliance Panel itself should also continue, and in more or less its current form.  David Reid tells us EVE Online is hard-core and is going to remain hard-core.  Let's not make him a liar, CCP.  The Alliance Panel is one of the most popular events at Fanfest for very good reason.

Whew!  This has been an outrageously long post, but important, I think.  Probably get grilled for it, too, but that's no different from all my other posts.  What do you think, Dear Readers?  Burn him on a spit?  Or accept Mittens's act of contrition?  Discuss.


  1. Well written and analyzed.
    The Mittani should be criticized for a weak and unfunny presentation, and naming the guy was in very poor taste and a serious mistake.
    Let's hope the drama queens let it end there.

    1. > Let's hope the drama queens let it end there.

      With blood in the water and a chance at "revenge" on the figurehead of the largest group of griefers in the game... I can see this getting hyped for all it's worth.

    2. Sadly Anon has it right. The sharks are circling.

      I am no believer of Mittani in this moment. I have not been back in the seat for long enough to make a judgement. I do have several people I believe can make the judgement, which Jester is a part of.

      This is ugly, but It doesn't mean that Mittens should give up what he's worked for. Since it happened at Fanfest, I believe Jester is right that any infractions following should be started there and should be only to make this incident unrepeatable.


    3. Lol, forum posts indicate a mob of mad miners are goin after his dog in RL, time to restock the popcorn vault, should be interesting.......

    4. It is absolutely not about the naming the guy. It is about the 'Make him kill himself' part. There is an extremely important line between that. People get ridiculed in Eve all the time. But taking it into RL, even if just mockingly, is what upsets people. To put it into Jesters words: The Mittani has made a remark about something he should not be able to speak off. Alex and Mittens exist in the real world, Mittani doesnt and thus may not discuss RL.
      Of course that was just a small slip, we know that.
      But non-Eve people do not. Many will not understand that the problem here was what Jester described. For them it appears that this one person, whom we as eve players also voted with an enormous lead to be our representative, thinks bullying someone into suicide is really funny. THAT is the big probem.
      And as much as i agree that Mittens is a great Chair, if neither he resigns nor CCP takes any action, that is what will stay. And it is what all major gaming sites will have reported.
      That is absolutely not the harshness anybody wants to advertise for EVE. This is a disaster for CCP marketing.
      Maybe the shitstorm is already over and it only cost a few potential subscriptions and we can move on. If not however, and this gets even more coverage, than CCP are forced to act. And before they do, it would way better for the game, the company and yes, the individual player, if Mittens reacted before.

  2. It's going to be very interesting to see how CCP handles this. While at one point their attitude was HTFU, they've been a much nicer, kinder, gentler (appearing) company lately. And with cyber-bullying being such a big catch-phrase, second only to paedophiles on the internet (as both come into the "think of the children" justification), their legal team will have to be advising them to distance themselves from him in every way possible.

    However, the counter to this is, the victim (for lack of a better word) is 1) an adult, and 2) not suicidal (at the current time, based on the evidence shown). But if condition 2 changed, The Mittani would be distanced from CCP so fast he'd get jetlag.

    1. If this was directed at a child I think you are 100% correct, CCP would have almost no choice but to take action against Mittens. Likewise, if this guy was truly upset by Mittens comments I think CCP again would need to act to keep prospective players from thinking "holy crap, you can actually be harassed to suicide in this game??"

      If he is alright with Mittens staying in CSM I don't see the big issue.

    2. People are already thinking "You can be harassed to suicide in this game?" already. The fact that the story has hit Eurogamer and only proliferated from there has invariably damaged EvE Online's reputation. So in essence, he's managed to damage CCP's brand.

  3. Jester, I'm disappointed in you. I F5'd your blog almost every hour of the day when the live FanFest stream was being fired from the internet gun, and no blog posts. Today, I have six months of work to catch up on, and I see no less than five new blog posts?

    Son, I am disappoint.

    1. Probably had something to do with the fact that I was watching the stream, too. ;-) Can't write and watch at the same time.

    2. This calls into question whether you are truly an evil blogging robot sent back from the future to make the rest of us look bad, or a mere mortal like the rest of us...

  4. While, for the most part,I despise the Mittani, he has been good for the CSM, and good for EVE in general. Like you, I hope that Mittens does not resign. Reading his public apology has convinced me of this.

    But, he definitely does need to face some consequences for this. What that should be, I don't know, but a short ban would not be amiss. Not a perma-ban, mind, just a few months. And I like the idea of the Goons also receiving a fine, even though it wouldn't affect them in the least with the amount of ISK they generate.

    1. Agreed, this is pretty much how I feel about it.

    2. If he's banned he can't be on CSM, those are the rules...

  5. I really think this is a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill.

    I understand that people are "offended" and Muttens was being a douche....

    I think this may just be political moves and getting media attention for CCP. Everyone following this drama is going to point to the CCP website and... DUST 514 promos.

    1. Krixtal IcefluxorMarch 27, 2012 at 4:53 AM

      Sorry....Sony does NOT nor will they ever desire to be party to this type of behavior. Consequences are unfortunately going to come.

    2. Then Sony shouldn't have partnered with CCP for a game that takes place in the EVE universe.

      Although over the top, and stupid, this isn't beyond the bounds of what Goons do IN GAME daily. And not just goons, any of the griefers, the con artists, the scammers. You think they fade away when they complete a scam? They rub it in the faces of their victims, as hard as they can, to get the tears. That is as much a part of EVE as Rifters and Drakes. If Sony didn't realize that at the beginning, DUST514 will not be a successful game on PSN. Period

    3. Well, SW, the problem is that SONY MIGHT DECIDE AFTER ALL that they shouldn't have partnered with CSM.

      If I'm a major multinational corporation, considering a venture with a much smaller, privately held company -
      one which has had a tough couple years, btw -
      and I see that company's representative stand by while -
      the visibly drunk head of the player association -
      at an official corporate event -
      urges thousands of other players to go after one who's claimed to be suicidal,

      you think the Sony West COO might have a couple stray thoughts? Think about it, ya little mathematician.

      Think about what happens to EvE if Sony pulls out of dust.

    4. Oh come off it.

      If Sony suffered moral outrage they would have done something by now, but they haven't. Why? They are waiting to the gauge the reaction before they start spinning.

      All publicity is good publicity.

      So some dude who plays a game the company made got drunk and maybe was something vaguely close to a cyberbully. So I guess that conservative moms won't want to play EVE or Dust....how many hits are those new articles getting again? Do they have links to CCP websites?

      This game is rated for mature players while there will be some moral outrage, the target market is not going to be phased, at the same time the potential group of people being advertised to by fanfest and whatever increases.

      Don't believe me? Even Jester's blog has 71 comments on it. So many readers does that make?

      If mittens had griefed another player into actually committing suicide that would be a different story, but this isn't even close to that. In fact "Dat wiz" is probably on a gank free ticket for the next few years and has himself a cool 10 bisk+ for some nonsense he didn't even know about.

    5. if Sony pulls out of the Dust 514 deal... we wait a few months and CCP releases the shooter on Xbox or (god forbid) PC... where it should be. just my .02 Isk

  6. As CPP, I would go with "All speakers who are on the stage must bring a recent negative drug test and must blow an alcohol tester before entering the stage". The audience can be drunk. Performers can be drunk. But performers who perform to drunken audience must be dead sober.

    If Mittani would point on some random guy on the Alliance Panel and tell the audience to lynch him, they probably had.

    1. Oh my gawd.....

      This comment is even more stupid than what you wrote on your pathetic blog. And that's quite an achievement.

      People like you should really stay away from anything that looks like a keyboard.

  7. Jester I have written a fairly lengthy reply to your lengthy article if you'd like to have a look... it was too long for your comment section.


    1. You've done a fine job expressing the alternative viewpoint, but chickened out at the end. ;-)

      What do you think he should do?

    2. I personally believe Mittani needs to stand down as the CSM Chair while remaining on the CSM to serve under someone else.

      He should also divorce himself from being Goons executor to focus on his CSM duties, I feel the two are mutually exclusive and preclude him doing both effectively.

    3. Nice write up, but I have to disagree with deciding on CMS or Goons. If you are going to ask him to pick which he represents, CSM will have to turn into an NPC alt only spot because everyone is going to push for changes that help them. if the goon representatives have a conflict of interest why wouldn't FW candidates or WH members? Anyone on CSM is representing a group... that's how they got on the CSM in the first place. Being elected by goons and then saying "Okay now you need to distance yourself from goons" is just silly and in my mind nullifies the CSM.

      I think his offer to resign was a very good call on his part, Alex is a smart guy and while he has proven he isn't the sociopathic player he plays in eve, he is the charismatic and intelligent player we see on the forums behind the Mittani avatar. He knows that offering to resign will help even if only slightly to calm this crap-storm. He knows he may have to, but being the one to offer it gives him more control and makes himself look more human which is something Mittani is missing, and he needs it if he WANTS to stay the chairman.

    4. I am not saying he has to leave Goons or stop representing them, I am saying he has to choose between leading them and the CSM.

      As leader of the Goons and as a CSM Member / Chair I believe it puts him in a unique and tight position. People say it's hard enough just being an Alliance leader let alone also trying to navigate the duties of the CSM.

      I agree theMittani making the offer to resign himself is the perfect play for him, but it needs to be more then a play it has to be something he is actually willing to do if he wants to maintain the credibility if affords him in light of current events.

  8. I am very interested in seeing how CCP (and Sony, I forgot about them) end up handling this. It's not the first time Eve Players have been portrayed in a very negative light. There is a line between what happens in Eve Online and the "real" world, and this should be respected which neither The MIttani nor the offended mackinaw pilot did. I suspect if this continues to be a problem we're gonna see a change in the License Agreement that will start limiting what is considered 'acceptable behavior' in Eve.

    1. Krixtal IcefluxorMarch 27, 2012 at 5:03 AM

      Unfortunately I believe this as well.

      EVE is not some 'fun experiment run by 10 guys in Iceland' any longer. They have entered the world of dealings with multinationals like Sony. This kind of thing will not be tolerated at all, and yes, I feel some unfortunate game altering policies will be put into place sooner thatn we would like.

    2. I just want to remind that Ginger M. was immediately perma-banned from the game for his blindfold sentence in rage at Miz C. "I'll find and kill you in RL". And I am sure that this EVE addict tried hard to apologize afterwards to get back into EVE but he had no chance to do it because the decision was made. And this happend just in a system full with pirates who would not have cared. Noone except Miz would have cared if not a GM was there to remove roles. Today a CSM member can talk shit in front of the community with the excuse that he was drunken and did not remember? IMO CCP should be consequently hit the EULA hammer.

  9. Krixtal IcefluxorMarch 27, 2012 at 4:51 AM

    Matters not that he was at the Panel as Alliance Leader and not 'as' the Chair. The point is he IS the Chair NO MATTER WHAT extraneous situations he finds himself in.

    The President does not stop being President when he becomes "average Joe Golf Player' on the weekend. The 'Hat' does not go away just because the President is having a beer with the United Steel Workers....that does not in any way give him permission to make sexist jokes among them, as they will do.

    ...and at this point CCP and Sony will not tolerate even the CHANCE of something even remoteluy similar happening again. I bet New Rules are coming down, and the game we knew is having it's last few weeks.

    As the Goon Mantra above says : "Our goal is not to destroy the game. At the end of the day, our goal is to destroy your game."

    Sir, you have succeeded beyond your wildest expectations I'm afraid.

  10. Well written.

    Just to clarify: despite the stereotypes schizophrenia has NOTHING to do with split personalities and so anyone infering that from this onto this guy would be seriously out of line.

    Totally agree he was wearing his Goon hat, but whilst hes on the CSM and the Chair that hat never comes off, at the very least its just underneath.

    Actively telling a load of known idiots/basketcases/geniuses and actually mentally ill people (Yes Goonswarm) to abuse someone in this kind of way really is stepping the line…

    At the very least he should not be chair of the CSM due to the damage it will do to EVE and CCPs reputation from people that don’t play or get EVE…

  11. I have to disagree here. Alex is the real person. Mittens and The Mittani are not real; they are roles, not hats.

    A "hat" would be Alex as a lawyer, or Alex as the head of the CSM, or Alex as a father/husband/brother - ie. a person doing a job, or installed in a position of responsibility, or as a member of a family.

    A "role" is what an actor plays in a TV show or movie. Han Solo and Indiana Jones are not "hats" worn by Harrison Ford. They are fictional characters and they do not exist. The man - Harrison Ford - has virtually nothing in common with these characters in real life. And, more importantly, he knows the difference - Han and Indy cease to exist when Ford leaves the set.

    Alex has stated categorically that he is *not* The Mittani in RL. Therefore, he should damn well be disturbed by the fact that he has been acting like The Mittani character in RL, esp. in a public venue. Hopefully, he'll get smart and dial it all back, before he screws himself over and becomes The Mittani for real. A slippery slope....

    1. He was acting out the role of the Mitanni in a setting where he was expected to act as such. When presenting as the leader of Goonswarm at an EVE event, there is no reason to expect him to be Alex the Lawyer. Should Harrison Ford have been Harrison Ford for the Star Wars Christmas Special?

  12. While I think forcing GSF to take a break from next years fanfest is a good idea, CCP should contact the player this was directed at. As long as he is cool with Mittens staying on (and from the convos I've read he doesn't seem even slightly phased by this) then Mittens should stay on. Everyone can be as upset as they want, but this was directed at one person in a drunken stupor. Blaming alcohol is weak, but if the person directly attacked isn't holding a grudge that should be enough. Don't let this turn into an opportunity for the anti-Mittens crew to run the show.

  13. Popped up a rather lengthy response and my critique at throughthek162.blogspot.com if you had time/fancied a gander

  14. Here here, Jester.

  15. Unfortunately, his so-called admission of guilt and apology becomes a ploy of theatrics if you realise that up until yesterday, the Mittani himself was posting in all sorts of threads on the matter with replies gloating how much support (in CSM votes) he enjoys, and how some people their opinions don't matter, etcetera.

    He knew what he was doing. He was trying to play it off as not a big thing and troll some more people with his infamy. The only reason he's issueing an apology is because he realises this situation is too serious for him to play it off.

    What we're seeing is damage control. He played his goon game and he failed, because he's getting a whole lot of flak because of it.

    1. This is correct, I think.
      I love ya, Ripard, and I love your blog. You're a bright and insightful guy.

      But you're wrong if you think the Martini's sudden contrition is genuine.

      Note that that doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong about whether he should still be on the CSM... that's largely a question of optics, and one I'm not settled on yet.

  16. The alliance panel presentation that was streamed life to thousands of people didn't have to include a few guys so drunk they nearly dribbled on their notes and the remote "not remembering their slides".

    If that is hardcore, you lead a sad life. The Mittani wasn't even funny, it was a sad show which I muted after listening a while until the fanfest continued. Especially compared to the preceding ones.

    The excellent and funny WH presentations didn't include (to much) alcohol, alot of humour and the only insults that where slung around where against themselves, epic fails ingame or the singing coaches of some of the players featured in the No Holes Barred presentation.

    The reaction of The Mittani on all of this is even more sad. Sure he "takes responsability" but "he doesn't remember". Sure he hates it when people blame alochol, but he does it himself.

    He crossed a line, clearly and even now he is loathe to fully admit it. He might even fool himself into believing his own "spin". How it must be sad to be the mittani when he isn't the mittani.

  17. Discovering that you've done something horrible while under the influence of alcohol and you don't even remember can be extremely fucking scary.

    For some, it's enough to stop drinking. For others, enough to stop playing EVE.

  18. I find this whole debate somewhat hypocritical and insulting in light of things people say in eve every day. Here's my take on it, put it up last night after reading too many posts blasting Mittens.


  19. Hm, I have no intention of playing a judge here and guessing whether or not he should resign. But the Mittani has more or less twisted the arms of the CCP (his 'media' campaign, etc.) and the question is: if he remains as a chairman, would not be his positions pretty weakened? Would not use CCP this fiasco to keep him in check?

  20. I think you gave a very insightful view as to what may have motivated the misdemeanor. I feel this should not exclude him from carrying the burden of what he did. Let's take a moment and step out of the video game and silently take a moment to think about what this actually was. Or even worse, what this can actually turn into.

    I feel bad for the guy to be honest. This is not how I would like to learn my lessons. I don't see any suicide specialists in the EvE community. I seriously doubt anyone was consulted about the veracity of the player's claim either. That is a sensitive situation that only a capable professional should be handling. He should have been keenly aware of this while he was putting the slides together for the presentation.

    I think this gentleman would be lucky if the consequences stayed in the realm of EvE. At least he has the support of his followers during his time of need. I just hope that is the case for the other party involved as well ...

  21. Quick thought before heading to work: offering to resign as chair/from CSM, only then to be told that no, his apology is sufficient, would work as a public vote of confidence for him. Future critics would not be able to hold this episode against him as easily.

  22. Hello,

    I wrote a reply more or less in the forums about this issue jester, basically answers my view on the subject and kinda fits as a reply to you blog post of what I think the real intricate issues regarding this are.

    You can read it here:

  23. Stupid, yes, but exactly what one should expect inviting the Mittani to the Alliance Panel. Just ban Mittens from presenting at the Alliance panel going forward (that should be a sufficient blow to his ego and an act of corporate contrition), accept his public and private apology, and move on. No CSM resignation required; as much as I hate to say it, we need him as Chairman.

  24. Confirming that the EVE community is as entertaining when seen from the outside as it is when one is subscribed.

    Nice write-up of the situation Ripard! o7

  25. With an ex-CEO of Goon in charge of security and stopping all "bad people" in Eve, I'm sure this investigation of the Goons' new CEO will be completely fair and unbiased.

  26. High winds blow on high hills.

  27. Like it or not, "Mittens" and "The Mittani" was created by EVE. People can hate him or love him but EVE is about scamming, shooting people, planning to shoot people, taking away other people's shineys or space. Sure there is an industrial aspect to EVE, but without the first elements, the industry has nothing and essentially is minecraft.

    As there is no such thing as bad publicity, CCP will, likely, publicly sanction Alex Gianturco for stepping over the line and may even ask him to step down from CSM Chair position. Like it or not, EVE created "Mittens", Alex just took the character on.

    There is a strong anti-goon contingent within EVE and GSF have made themselves the antagonists so I can't say it isn't justified (to some degree). The same people that say the three (Mittens/Mittani/Alex) are one and the same are the same people that have a hard time separating space pixel ships from reality.

    He made a mistake and looks like he genuinely is sorry for what he has said. Time to let it go. I have been shot at by goons but I've also been shot at by many other alliances, I don't care about them enough to hate them. They are just another alliance (albeit a big one) in game.

    Haters will hate no mater what and it seems like the EVE player backlash is being led by them using this incident as an excuse.

    As someone else said in some forum: "Internet spaceships guy gets drunk and says stupid stuff. News at 11."

  28. >>>But not while he was wearing the CSM Chair hat. This is critical!

    Sorry, but that's BS Jester. If the president of a company sexually abused a woman during off hours should he go unpunished because he wasn't wearing the "company hat"?

  29. This seems so silly to me, lets define bullying for a moment, "persistant targeted abuse in any form". This criteria has not been met.
    1. the guy was ganked by a member of goonswarm(not Mittens) for being a miner, so this is not targeted abuse.
    2. The protection scam, again not actually aimed at the individual miner but all miners and perpetrated by a member of gonnswarm and not directly by Mittens.
    3. The slide itself and subsequent Q+A session, months later (so again not persistant) and the only actual event involving the two parties at all and even then thats tenuous as they only ever conversed for the apology!

    At best this is just one episode of being an Ass, but it is not under any twisted logic an example of Bullying. Whats next? seriously? You will not like everyone in the world, but are we gonna end up in a society where we all have to have smiles surgically placed on our faces so as not to be mistaken for giving people "evil looks"?

  30. Just found out about this last night(CST). An EvE buddy of mine mentioned it to me and I took a look into the event.

    Just wow.

    I've been in this game for a year now. I know the mix of players here and the spectrum of behaviors I can expect to see (although even I am occasionally amazed). I am no fan of the Mittani (and I owe him one for a POS theft one of his guys engineered . . . see you around buddy), but I have to say I respect what he has accomplished with GoonSwarm and in the CSM last year. He can be an articulate and intelligent spokesman, and he might have served us well again this year.

    But the problem is, when you step up and campaign for leadership of a group, there is a certain level of responsibility that comes with that position. Rightly or wrongly, The Mittani as Chairman of the CSM speaks for the population of EvE. And he wanted all the attention.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    In the final keynote of the Fanfest, CCP put forward the amazing premise that EvE + Dust514 would become the largest gaming universe in the WORLD. Not that hard to imagine. Sony is a big player in the business world. The big money is coming to EvE.

    And money talks.

    This is the really tragic thing about this situation. Given all the moving parts involved, I can't see any way The Mittani can stay in the chair of the CSM. Even if I think he is capable of doing some good things there. Sony cannot be associated with a group that will tolerate this sort of statement from a leader in a public forum, whatever the context. That is what responsibility means. In doing what he did, The Mittani has shot us all in the foot, and now it's time for us to limp away and mend the damage.

  31. Resign or not? In the end, it is all just pretty pixels and has no impact on my life, so I could not care less. As long as the sandbox is healthy and persists, it's all good.

    As to the nature of the character of The Mittani/Mittens/Alex, the age-old wisdom of "In vino veritas" says that Alex is more like The Mittani than Mittens.

  32. Jester, I think your analysis of the hats that The Mittani wears is absolutely correct. However, I think your analysis of the situation is dead wrong. Had this happened 2 years ago or maybe even last year, Alex may have been able to slide by. The only people paying attention at that point in time were eve players and a few of the "eve curious" (fantastic phrase, btw. Full credit to CCP's new marketing head). This, however, is not the situation as it stands today. There is a lot of attention starting to be focused on CCP by the greater gaming media and a possibly even the mainstream media. Fanfest 2012 will probably be the first thing they pull quotes from (aside from guiding hand) in the lead up to Dust. Look at Sony's presence at Fanfest this year. This is a Big Fuckin' Deal. My point is that while we, the eve player base is close enough to the situation to understand the fine distinctions about what happens at which panels, the greater media at large doesn't understand the history there, and to be perfectly frank, couldn't give less of a fuck. Here's all they're going to see, "Representative of Sony's partner solicits player base to harass suicidal player". Not something either company will want to come within a thousand miles of. While it's a shame, cause I think that Mittens was actually a really good CSM chair, the reality of the situation is that he's screwed. I cannot envisage him being involved in any public way with CCP this time next week.

    1. +1 on this post. Jester is probably correct in his analysis of Mittens' misbehavior, but missed the big picture.

      What matters now is that people who should be seeing the latest hype for Dust will now see the words "CCP" and "cyberbully" in the same headline.

      The timing sucks for CCP. They just blew their wad on an annual event designed to kickoff Dust. The fact that it took such a long post to explain the backstory on this incident just shows that CCP simply can't attempt to explain anything other than both a) Removing Mittens from the CSM and b) Temp or permaban.

      Anything less will probably just perpetuate the negative headlines.

  33. I can't be the only one that has noticed that the "victim" in this hadn't even heard about what happened and didn't care. But now all these people bothering him trying to get him worked up to take action against Mittani keep picking at the wound. Everyone contacting him to try and further their own anti-Goon/Mittani agenda is worse than the Mittani is.

  34. I agree with what you wrote jester. The Mittani did bad things, but I believe he is needed as chairman. Though Two Step would be good as well if The Mittani has to lose his chairmanship after this (I thought that before The Mittani also said Two Step would be good)

  35. I have not seen the stream, but I would point out that it appears that at least one person in the EVE universe forgot that he lives in REAL universe, where such trolling has consequences. People should remember that, this did not happen in game. If he does stay on his ability to work for the player base will be seriously affected

  36. Like I posted on FNGs blog, I think the whole thing was funny as fuck. No apology needed, nor required. I feel he was doing what a Goon does, making fun of people who were stupid and extracting their tears. I think The Mittani should have continued with the backlash at his presentation and Alex/Mittani should have taken a backseat because he was presenting *as CFC leader*.

    I wish he would not have apologized, but instead continued with it. Refund the guy he mentioned 10 bisk? Thats pocket change and hush money for the guy he made fun of to not go and file some kind of harrassment charges; nothing more.

    Or it shouldnt be =P

  37. @Jester:

    Let me preface my next statement by saying that I think Mittens has done a good job on the CSM up to this point. I did not vote for him but I respect his work.

    That being said, I think he should resign from the CSM. Unfortunately, we live in a world where an off the cuff comment or action can cost a person everything.

    Also, we live in a world where outrageous behavior is encouraged and often applauded.

    The Mittani is the head of a large group of players (as a Goon and CSM) and one of them might take The Mittani's obvious joke and decide to act on it. There are unstable people everywhere, I see it every day in my line of work.

    If the victim in this situation (God forbid) does kill himself at any time and it can be attributed to The Mittani and it is shown that CCP failed to act on when it was brought to their attention previously, then it would be terrible PR for CCP. (as well as a tragedy on many levels)

    Further, if they do nothing to Mittens they lose credibility. Face it they don't want to mess with him because of the player base he represents (number-wise) and everyone knows this.

    If this was "Joe Eve" he would already be enjoying a ban.

    My thoughts


  38. Starting to think you're more schizo than Jim Carrey in a "Mittens, The Mittani, and Alex" movie.
    I seem to remember previous posts where you come off as a total hard-ass "exec" type, "hey fucked up now he can pay the consequences -- give him his final check" sorta mentality, and I actively advocated AGAINST that "zero-defect mentality" in comments to you...
    And now you're all but making the "depends on what the definition of 'is' is," argument before the big courtroom scene in The Secret Life of Alex Mitti.

    Meh, whatever. At the risk of sounding like a Mittens clone for a sec: personally I think I have the best "take" and "solution" for this whole affair.

    1. That's because there is a rule for the guys at the top of the pyramid, and one for the guys at the bottom. More seriously, I think both methods are not very sound. The zero-tolerance method has been discussed in a previous post, the hug-a-bully method not yet.
      "People occasionally do really stupid, dumb-ass things. [...] If you do something stupid, all you can do is apologize and try to make it right." it sounds very nice except it's open to abuse (from CEOs caught for insider trading to juvenile thugs). So unless you've got a threshold at which there is no second chance, you'll get people trying to push their luck and then saying "ooops I didn't mean to".
      And CCP now has to decide what this threshold is.

      And your article is the most comprehensive I've read on that incident, so you still get a hug from me :P

    2. lol I've found that drama follows the old rule of thumb for storms: "In like a lion, out like a lamb," meaning that a storm that comes in RIP roaring and tearing everything in its wake up, will also quickly move on and die out, having expended its energy.

      Remember "KONY 2012!!! Invisible children!! OMG!!! *likelikelikeshareshareshare* This is SOOO IMPORTANT..."
      You may have had to pause a second and think about "Wait who-what? Ohhhh yeah...that. Soooo 32 seconds ago."

      Sure this is big news and HUGE drama....and following the Lion --> Lamb rule, will soon be swept away in a jetstream of bigger, better, more, drama.

      Also, on a psychosocial note, "hug-a-bully" just results in more aggressive and bullying behavior. Seen it work recently to fix such problems anywhere, lately? Yeah, me either. Bullies do what they do not because they are 'secretly insecure and just need love', they're "overtly arrogant, and need a swift drop-kick in the asshole."

  39. Worth remembering that this the words - as bad as they are - are not a serious call to action. They are the words of a drunken git engaged in a pissing contest with a bunch of drunken gits (with apologies to those who were there and not drunk).

    Considering that no actual harm was done and there's no evidence that anyone actually followed the suggestion, what punishment would 'fit' the crime? IMO:
    - disinvite goonswarm from the 2013 Alliance Panel
    - stipulate that Mittens is not to be take or be under the influence of ANY alcohol at any CCP related event for the next 12 months (including Fanfest 2013).

    The clear message that "this guy can't be trusted to drink responsibly" both addresses the offence and provides ongoing social censure.

  40. I've spoken elsewhere about this, but before I get to my main point I'll say this...

    1. I find it almost impossible to take the apology at face value, although I don't doubt that Alex is truly mortified. TheMittani will already be back at full strength behind the curtains. So, as far as 'normal' apologies go, this one seems pretty hollow.

    2. Although I think he went way too far, and committed what would actually be, here in the UK, a criminal act - I also believehe's being witch-hunted, as it were... Blood for blood's sake.

    3. Stepping-down should be a decision made between him, and CCP . Personally, I'm not completely convinced that it would serve any good purpose. Though, I'm almost completely convinced that ~not~ stepping down will makes Goons even more unbearable than ever.

    But my main 'gripe' is something that I don't think you actually raised, and that's CCP themselves. By broadcasting it, and rebroadcasting it again, despite the public complaints, they've made things much worse than they had to be. Far worse.

    By keeping silent, as they've done so many times before, they're allowing wounds to fester and pus-filled. The hate is palpable on the forums right now, and it didn't have to be like that.

    In my opinion, if CCP had come out *early* and said,

    "We made a mistake. We shouldn't really have broadcast that event as a live-stream. Next year we'll cover something else in that time-slot, and maybe bring it to you on Youtube later if you'd like to see it... We're sorry that a really bad joke got out of hand and offended so many people. We got them drunk, and forgot to check their material was suitable. Sorry... We'll make it up to you..."

    Then I think a lot of this might have gone away by now.

  41. I think the decision to stay on as chairman is out of Alex's hands now that knowledge of this incident has spread outside of EvE's community (just google {"the mittani" suicide} to see how far it goes). But CCP answer might vary depending on how wide this story spreads:
    -if it's just to the MMO community, it might just be a slap on the wrist for Alex because to these people EvE already has the reputation of being a home for sociopaths,
    -if it goes beyond that, CCP might have to be more drastic, because they won't want people to hear about EvE for the first time through this story.
    What has to be kept in mind is that CCP is now trying to reach out to a wider audience (hence the deal with Sony for Dust 514), and that this year is make or break for them. Imagine this kind of story coming out during the release of Dust 514.

  42. I think another step that would clean up the air would be to refer to members of the CSM by their real name. This way there would be a separation between role-play (The Mittani) and representing the community (Alex G.). Otherwise it's just confusion, and now we've seen just how it can badly clutter a discussion.

  43. Just piping up to object to the mischaracterisation of Schizophrenia as Multiple Personality Disorder.

    Trying to draw lines between "The Mittani" was griefing versus "Alex" was griefing is attempting to evade responsibility. He's not insane. He doesn't have multiple personality disorder. These are not actually separate personalities: these are separate roles played by the same actor.

    Alex prepared that slide, so it is obvious the intent was there to out-bad-ass the other alliance leaders. The "apology" was well-crafted and believable. Alex is a good actor. I don't believe his "apology" is sincere (he's a lawyer, and a ride on an airplane was more than enough time for him to craft a believable apology).

    Alex needs to find ways to display that he truly is "bad ass" without being a giant douchebag. There's a point at which "edgy" becomes "over the top" and I feel this call to grief a player out of the game has crossed that line, role-play or not. Sure, mission accomplished, but I can't help but feel that this was a Pyrrhic victory.

    Ultimately, public figures are generally called to higher standards of behaviour than private figures. Alex is a public figure, and has tried very hard to get into this position of being the most public figure in EVE Online. He should have been well and truly aware that he is going to be held to higher standards of behaviour than any other player in the game.

    The Mittani is a useful asset to the virtual world. Alex Gianturco is an ass (but a loveable one).

  44. I mentioned this to a corpie and I'll repeat it here:

    The only way this is different from Mittens' usual antics is that he suggested IRL that someone kill themselves, instead of telling them to kill themselves IRL.

  45. Oh look, mittens-initiated drama gets everyone talking about mittens again. After taking the low road during the CSM 7 campaign, his overinflated ego must be starved for sustenance. You are all spoon feeding it to him with a firehose. He deserves some credit, I suppose, for manipulating everyone into doing this time and time again.

  46. I don't buy the fact that Mittens the CSM chair and Mittani the griefer are two different personas one bit.

    Mittani versus regular guy Alex ? Maybe so. But Mittani has openly admitted that he's only on the CSM for the people who voted him in. He's trolled people on Jita's park and AH all the time, during the elections and after. On the CSM he's looked after his own alliance's (and nullsec's) interests and set out to restrict and destory the playstyles and incomes of others.
    When a CCP dev comes and says at Fanfest that war decing your corp will cost 20 mil/month and war decing Goonswarm is going to cost 5 bilion what is left to say ?

    His first response to this drama breaking out on the forums was bragging about his 10k votes. Sorry but Mittani the Goonswarm block representitive needs to suffer the consequences of his actions.

  47. Consequences? He should resign. This is going to hang over his head throughout the next year. The Mittani will always be associated those comments in any business he conducts. People will pitty him or people will mock him, or people will disregard him and his ability to convery a message will be diminished.

    Resignation is really the only way he can convery his sincerity. He goes out on top of his game with the most votes ever cast for a CSM candidate and the leader of the largest alliance in EVE (which he'll maintain). Resignation will salvage a bit of respect (and perhaps give him a net gain.)

    What CCP does is their business. I have no faith or confidence that CCP will do the right thing (or anything).

  48. Bah, even commenting on this whole drama in a fishbowl is a waste of time&space, but here it goes.

    3 hats? Humbug.
    Mr. Gianturko done goofed. I think the proper term is "sucking chest wound" in his believability as a "good guy" CSM chairman.
    In fact CSM member.
    Step one proper apology(Done).
    Step two, step away. For good.

    Could care less what he does in game or what CCP does to him, just the same as he does for about everybody else.

  49. Very nice writeup. I do not subscribe to the notion that The Mittani and Alex are not the same person, however. The things he said while shitfaced are what he really thinks. He gains happiness at the misery of others.

    1. And this comes as a shock to you?

  50. Another thought to keep in mind... Alex said (paraphrasing) "hey here is the guys name... go do it. (I dare ya!)" He didn't actually do the act of harassing the guy. He jokingly told others to do it. How many times are we urged by friends and acquaintances to go do things that can have unintended consquences.... "yea Girl, he cheated on you... you should go cut his balls off!" "I would if I were you." "you need to keep her in line. I would never let a woman do that to me." these are all statements that can have lasting and damaging meanings. but, in a court of law, these statements would be discounted if someone were to say "but he told me to!" where the delineation should be drawn is that if someone went to harass the guy, the harasser should be smashed. not Mittens.

  51. Well written. I agree with you, I was never a fan of Mittens, but he has handled the situation (since returning from FanFest, that is) with dignity and respect, and he's won over me. I just hope the Goon reaction ingame will not be too severe, as this drama-fest has gotten crazy. But I'm excited to see Jita burning... The only problem I have with this whole fiasco, is CCP's heavy-handed reactions, including bans for things posted on twitter. Twitter is not owned by CCP, and despite any desire not to have that bad PR on twitter they shouldn't start banning people for opinions on a website they don't control. That's getting a little crazy, I think.

  52. I don't really agree with any of what you said. What this is an excuse for being a person of poor moral character. The Wis himself said in the chat posted by Alexander Gianturco in his CSM Chairman resignation thread. This was premeditated, this was not off the cuff improvisation. Alexander Gianturco's real life reputation as a human being is forever tarnished as this will live on the Internet in perpetuity. Even when his grand kids Google his name 50 years from now, they will see what a person of low moral character he is. Good luck finding a work in the digital age Alexander Gianturco.

  53. This cyber bullying is getting out of control. The weird thing is, it is starting to feel like Mittens is the victim.

    Bad as his comment was, am I the only one who thinks this has gotten out of hand and crossed into witch-hunt territory? The attacks on Alex seem far more personal than his comments on The Wis.

  54. It is never too late to post a comment, so here it goes : I think the distinguishing factor in this situation is that -- be EVE real or a game or both -- the Mackinaw miner decided to step out of character in his mail to the Goons, which was then publicly ridiculed by The Mittani and the Goons still being their in-game characters.

    Think about a cage fight : as brutal and morally dubious as it may be, once one of the fighters taps, the FIGHT IS OVER ! By stepping out of character, the Mackinaw miner "tapped". And The Mittani ignored this. That is the morally reprehensible factor IMHO in this situation -- while I appreciate that EVE is hard and real.

  55. MITTINI is an idiot for what he said, goons are blind idiots following him, EVE is nto about being a fucking total drunking dickhead, nothing wrong with drinking i love a few myself, but this is about the very same fuckheads who can't drink, we all know them, a few beers and they shout and act like retarded apes banging there knuckles on teh ground demanding respect. anyone who supports alex the dopey fuck needs a wake up call, how long before there is an alliance to end the goons and the shit they talk. ;)

  56. interestingly enough, certain members of gentlemen's agreement (a goon pet alliance) have been taking the lead in hunting down & suicide-ganking Wis's ice mining alts in recent days....

    the moral rot has spread from goons to the entire CFC, tbh ccp should do mass bannings across all those sociopathic alliances.

  57. Good article. Well considered.

  58. Slides were premeditated. Guy gets thrilled at the misery of others. Mining is the lowest form of income in Eve? According to whom? Yet all of us fly ships built with minerals mined by these `lower people`.

    I also don't believe he makes any difference between his RL and in-game persona. No-one will after enough time, because it's too hard to pretend you're someone else all the time. Appology issued was bollocks (ie. bullshit, lies) as he saw the important ramifications - CCP had to do something drastic because partnering with a multi-national colossus (SONY) is very important and they really don't want any bad press - so being the smart individual he is he initiated damage control.

    I think The Mittani/CSM7 Chairman/Alex Gianturco finally lost grip of reality because (in true goon fashion) he's so consumed by griefing others and enjoying their misery.

    Since when `not showing any weaknesses in lawless nullsec warfare` equals scamming (in person), endless griefing and generally acting like a sperge? Why am I the only one to believe we really don't need Alex Gianturco to `save anything` in Eve? We just need an articulate strong-willed individual with a lot of Eve experience and maturity --> Seleene would be a great choice in my opinion.

  59. Shame on you, Jester. It was not a mistake. It was a crime committed. Alexander Gianturco committed not cyber bullying, he committed incitation to suicide someone through harassment. And that is a crime in any civilized world.

  60. Darius JOHNSON made a hell of a funny presentation. It was, as you state, the best alliance panel presentation in the history of the fanfest. Also, notice that he didn't humiliate anyone. It is entirely possible to be funny without making fun of people with psychological problems.

    I agree that the Mittani's presentation was mean. It was however not funny. I did not laugh once watching it, and I remember thinking that he was getting increasingly annoying with each drink, as he kept interrupting people's questions and answering out of turn.

    So the morale of this? Darius is a great drunk and a funny guy. The Mittani is a horrible drunk and has a very misplaced sense of humor.

  61. To say that these hats amount to different people is naive. You think a business man would allow a law to pass that would hurt him personally? You cannot separate the two even if schizophrenic.

    You may disagree, but I think that your post outlines why we should take care when electing businessmen, former CEO's, etc to public offices. People who wear a variety of hats will at some point neglect one of their duties for whichever benefits them the most. Humans are selfish. In this case, Alex didn't want to be seen as "Alex" again so he and "Mittens" both stepped back willing in order to allow Mittani to take the stage.

    Luckily though, this is just a game.

  62. This is why i don't play eve anymore. The rules are arbitrary... if it was indeed the "dark merciless" world, those who play it like to play it is. There would be nothing wrong with with Mittani said.

    You can't MAKE someone kill themselves.. that's why it's called suicide and not murder. And up until bullying became a political fad a few years ago, no one would've given a crap about this.


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