Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Monday, March 26, 2012

One more thing...

Am I going to weigh in on what happened at the Alliance Roundtable?

Yes.

After the drama level dies down a bit to mere human levels.

In the meantime, Mittens seems sincere in an offer to resign if that will quell the controversy, calm the waters, and protect CCP and the CSM.  Short version, though (even if this gets me flamed): that's noble, but I personally do not feel that it's necessary, or warranted.

More tomorrow or the next day.


EDIT (26/Mar/2012): As I put it on Twitter:
I feel an offer by to resign from (if sincere) is noble, but not warranted. An apology, though? Definitely.  
and
There's a difference between the person and the persona. This situation clearly shows that.
And indeed, Mittens has apologized.  That's a lovely start.  Again, I'll have more to say about it tomorrow, but what's above is the gist of my opinion.

20 comments:

  1. Hi. Let me introduce you to Mittens, since it seems you've never heard of him or anything he's done/said.

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    1. To clarify I mean that there's no way he's sincere about resigning, not that I somehow think he's the kind of person who would encourage someone to kill themselves irl and feel good about it.

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    2. I get the distinct sense that he would resign the CSM if CCP asked him to and he felt that would protect the CSM as an institution.

      Granted, I've never met the guy IRL, but that's the sense I got from watching him on video during the Emergency Summit last year.

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    3. I met him at fanfest 2011 and his ego-centrism and obnoxiousness far surpassed what I had imagined. The impression I have is that he uses eve first and foremost as a venue for grabbing attention. If his behavior at the round tables can be considered an indication of how he works on the CSM, then his ideas are about average, he just talks over all other more polite members.

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  2. Mittens is a politician. I suspect he realizes that regardless of his personal feelings on someone not in a Pirates of the Carribean movie using suicide as a bargaining chip, public opinion and image must be controlled. And he went and did just that with this "apology".

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  3. To throw some of my own odd flavor of fuel onto the fire as someone that -has- actively been on suicide watch before...

    If the dude -was- considering, and his talk about suicide waas genuine, then having a sudden influx of people hearing about it was one of the best things that could have happened to him: if he was definitely going to gank himself, it'd happen either way, and if he has a chance of not doing so it can almost certainly only be -improved- by having more people that care about him having a chance to hear about it.

    But then, either way, there is this...
    http://paste.pocoo.org/show/571748/
    And if it's true it puts an interesting spin on things, ne?

    Either way, Mittens ended up tossing out a genuine apology here... And perhaps there could be some benefit from this, in seeing more of Mittens the Human from Earth and a tad less of Mittens, King of Space.

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  4. Reluctantly I agree that he should not resign form CSM7. And I agree his apology seems sincere. That being said, his apology for his actions and comments; intoxicated or not; do call for some sort of repercussion. My opinion is that he give up the Chair of CSM7.

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  5. I think there are many people that really take the whole "Mittens" thing too seriously. "Mittens" is a character in a pixelated space game. Yeah, he makes fun of RP'ers but Alex Gianturco is one. Having said that, he's an attorney IRL and has a brain. He's young, gets drunk and says stupid shit. He apologized now everyone needs to get over it.

    Space pixels. That's it. There is nothing more to this than that. You can try and read into his intent all you like, but bottom line is that he got drunk and stupid. Unless you don't drink, then you have done the same and felt stupid when you realized what you did (afterwards) at some point in time.

    I've been alive for a while and can smell BS a mile away. I can tell you that this one seems sincere. I've never met Alex but he seems pretty "white bread" to me. I'm a stranger so take it for what it's worth. Life is full of stuff to worry about, this isn't one. The "victim" barely remembers the incident and while the Call to Action by Alex on stage was out of line, an apology and 10.7B ISK goes a long way for a spaceship politician.

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  6. As far a Mittens comments go, I've said worst on purpose and apologized less for it. So I'd say he's done all that needs doing.

    As far as the player reaction to those comments go? I thought EVE had a more mature player base. I'm a little dissipated by this opportunistic, tween, emo, reaction. Something I would expect in WOW, but disappointed to see it here.

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  7. Guy gets drunk says dumb things...news at 11.
    Not like he is running for president of even head of you HOA.
    He is chair of a group of people who present stuff to game company about a game.

    Glad he said sorry...that stuff should never cross into RL and harassment is never good.

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    Replies
    1. He can't pull the "I was drunk" card. He had powerpoint slides, thus it was obviously premeditated.

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  8. I just found this

    http://i.imgur.com/BR83Z.png

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  9. Unfortunately, this is more of a RL problem than just the usual Eve in-game ranting and raving about Mittens.

    Alex Gianturco admits to two serious problems: (1) drinking to the point of loss of control/memory, and (2) the inability to separate his in-game persona from himself. I've seen quite a few people catastrophically ruin their real lives, in exactly this manner.

    Mr. Gianturco firstly needs to deal with his drinking problem, with professional help, if he can't do it alone. And, secondly, he should probably take a long break from "Mittens" and any other sort of role playing, until he can keep his in-game persona from popping up undesirably in RL situations.

    If you are one of Alex's RL friends, then please talk to him - Alex, that is, not the Mittens persona. Eve is a fun game, but it isn't worth effing up his life and his RL reputation.

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  10. Interesting. You gave Garmon a hard time for using an exploit, but your giving The Mittani a pass for encouraging someone to commit suicide?

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    1. One was thoughtlessly done on the spur of the moment. The other was thoughtfully done after due consideration, testing, planning, and a loaded question to a GM.

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    2. You're not getting out of this one so easy. Your bromance with the Mittani is becoming more obvious. How is a prepared speech not deliberate? How does a person 'accidentally' encourage someone to commit suicide? This is acceptable behavior to you? If I read your article correctly, Mittens should be given a pass because he is such and important person to CSM; isn't that rationalizing bad behavior?

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  11. The apology is well done. I spent a bit of time reading the forums yesterday and noticed a lot of Goonies supporting their leader.. Now that dear leader has apologized, will his apologists, too? Or will they maintain his behaviour was ok, against Mittens' own apology? Interesting dillema, if you have been defending someone's behaviour and that person himself later apologizes for it :)

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  12. Jester, I don't know Mittens personally, nor have I ever met him. I am not a goonie, I didn't vote for him.

    What I do know is what my CEO has told me, Alex... is a nice person. As much as my CEO wanted to hate him, he couldn't reasonably do it. That doesn't mean he hasn't said something harsh, but what Eve player hasn't said something evil while in game?

    I'm hoping the best outcome for this if it's not a troll. Which is that Mittani keeps CSM chair, his account stayed unbanned (unless it's a temporary ban), and whatever legal action be minuscule compared to a real threat towards killing a person.

    Usually a person won't say that they're going to kill themselves unless they want attention and/or want the person to feel pity for them. As creatures of habit we don't generally tell others we're going to kill ourselves if we have no legitimate connection to them.

    Just my half dollar on the subject. Lines were crossed, but that doesn't mean that the world won't keep orbiting the sun.

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    1. "Usually a person won't say that they're going to kill themselves unless they want attention and/or want the person to feel pity for them. As creatures of habit we don't generally tell others we're going to kill ourselves if we have no legitimate connection to them."

      Not true - and definitely a dangerous assumption.

      Anyone who talks about committing suicide has a mental/emotional problem and cannot be expected to behave rationally. It might be only temporary, perhaps due to an exceptionally unfortunate event, but, you should always considered it as a serious threat. It doesn't take much to push a person in this state over the edge.

      Suicide should never be treated as a trivial matter.

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    2. You're right that it's an assumption, but look at how the guy words his mail. He focuses entirely on things that are meant to show that he's in a lot of pain. If he had instead focused on such a thing as the act of killing himself and mentioned how he was planning on doing it, it would be different.

      Suicide isn't as easy to figure out, and isn't a joke. Some people know that the only way to get affection is to say the worst thing they can think of. If the guy knew he had thought about suicide then why doesn't he seek help other than trying to send a mail to an aggressor? It's more often than not that someone who is suicidal won't mention a word about it or will be in denial.

      I'm not going to tell my direct history, because I don't want the internet to know of things in the past. It's easier though for someone to tell a person who is anonymous to them that they are thinking of doing the worst thing if they think it will bring sympathy. Try telling your friends that you were thinking suicide because someone ganked your highsec miners and see how they react. Now, go on to a chat service and tell someone random that, even at best they won't be able to do anything but contact authorities if they believe you.

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