Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Saturday, March 10, 2012

Purgatory

And now an important message from Jester's evil twin, Garth.  The opinions of Garth are not the opinions of Jester (unless they are).

Want to know the very best thing about CCP?

It's hard to tell, when they fuck something up, if:
  • they've fucked it up accidentally and intend to quickly fix it; or,
  • they've fucked it up accidentally and don't know how to fix it; or,
  • they've fucked it up accidentally, but think that fucking it up was a good thing and they don't intend to fix it; or,
  • they've fucked it up deliberately because they thought it was fucked up before and they don't intend to fix it; or,
  • they've fucked it up deliberately, know that they're going to catch shit from the players for fucking it up, and want to pretend like they don't know how to fix it (or even how it was broken) because EVE players will believe that because -- after all -- :CCP:.

It's that last case that's the most fun.  After all, a lot of EVE players believe that any success CCP has modifying game mechanics is purely freakin' accidental.  EVE developers don't actually play the game, right?  So they have to rely for inside knowledge on forum posts, Skype conversations, and half-remembered snippets of conversations in some dark, smoky Icelandic pub that happened while one participant or all participants were bombed out of their minds.  There's no way that participants in any of those settings have hidden agendas, is there?  Even more hysterical, when an EVE developer fucks something up, EVE players are conditioned to believe them when they say they don't know how they fucked it up or how to fix it, because -- again -- fucking :CCP:!

It's the perfect excuse to float trial balloons.  "Oh, this is broken?  Ummmm?  How did it work before?  Are you sure that's a bug?  You're sure it's broken?  Er, OK, go ahead and bug report it..."

Latest example: security status granted by killing NPC rats in null- and low-sec has been changed.  About a month ago, players started to notice that shooting these rats no longer granted them security status increases unless you were the player that inflicted the final blow on the rat.  Was this in the change log for the latest update to Crucible?  No, it was not.  So the player that noticed it filed a petition.  Here is the response, quoted in full:
This MAY have been an unannounced change, I haven't been able to confirm that as we don't have any pre-crucible servers available here in customer service which we can test that on. However it's definitely by design right now that only the player who lays the final blow gets the standing. If you want to see it changed back, then I encourage you to post that on the Features and Ideas Discussion forum. You can find the forums here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/

The devs do read the forums and your input there can influence their decisions in the future.

Best regards,
GM Zerat
EVE Online Customer Support

I fucking love this!  It simultaneously "MAY have been an unannounced change" and at the very same time "it's definitely by design"!  "If you want to see it changed back, then I encourage you to" get out a pair of knee-pads and open your mouth because one of the dev's girl-friends left him a couple of weeks back and he has some... needs.

Fucking :CCP:!

Jesus H Spacechrist!  CCP, let me slowly and calmly explain a few fucking things to you.  This is an MMO, and it's not a theme park MMO.  People don't want to solo your PvE content because your PvE content is fucking shit.  If they are forced into your PvE, at least they want to do it with friends.  Yeah, I blew up a guy in low-sec once.  Know what happened?  Gate guns did their level best to take my head off for the next 15 minutes (+5 minutes because :CCP:).  And I got a GCC, which meant that any moron with a Rifter and an attitude could shoot at me for 15 minutes.  And the guy I blew up got kill rights on me for 30 days.  And I got security status taken off.

All because I shot some moron in low-sec once.  Yeah, the punishments definitely fit the fucking crime there, don't they!

To fix this, all I have to do is shoot rats.  And each rat puts 0.00001 of my sec status back so that maybe I can shoot some other moron in low-sec at some future date without needing a high-sec alt to buy all my shit to PvP with because I shot someone in low-sec once.  But at least I could console myself that I could shoot at rats with my friends as we went through 35 empty jumps of low-sec and null-sec while we hope for maybe getting a fight somewhere... somewhen.

Only, no, not any fucking more, because some CCP dev decided to make an "unannounced change".  Now I have to go to fucking purgatory for a few hours and shoot fucking red crosses by myself.  In an MMO.  So there I am a couple of weeks later bombing around low-sec asteroid belts in a frigate looking for something to shoot at while I'm in fucking purgatory shooting red crosses by myself when a Hurricane shows up... looks at me... and warps off.  I could practically hear his thought process: "Nah, I'm not going GCC or spending hours ratting for a frigate."

Fucking :CCP:!

You know what this is, CCP?  This is a low-sec nerf!  Congratulations!  You've just nerfed low-sec!  The people who live in low-sec don't care about this change.  They're already -10.  Do they give a shit about ratting to get sec status back up?  They do not.  Do suicide gankers care about getting their sec status up?  No, they don't care either.  They've figured out how to live quite happily in high-sec despite being -10.  Do they give a shit about ratting to get sec status back up?  They do not.

Know who the only people who care about this change are?  The people who might casually visit low-sec and might casually shoot people while they're there!  Only now they're not going to be so casual about it because if they casually shoot someone, they pay the price of being sent to fucking purgatory to shoot red crosses by themselves for hours.  So, yeah, better to not shoot.  Guys, don't go GCC for that frigate.  We can start shooting at people when we get to null.

You've just nerfed low-sec!  And God knows that low-sec needed it because it was such an interesting, dynamic part of the game before.

Fucking :CCP:!

I received the following reply to the bug report:

Hello and thank you for your report. However, the behaviour described was changed so that only the person laying the final blow to the killed NPC is credited for the kill and therefore gains sec status. Regards, BH Mozgalom

:CCP:, the good news here is that there are approximately ten thousand ways to fix this nerf you've inflicted.  Here's five examples.  Please fucking pick one:
  • Change it fucking back.
  • The worst pirates in the game are capsuleers, right?  Give me sec status for shooting at player pirates with low sec status where I find them.
  • Let me bribe CONCORD to fix my sec status, with either ISK or CONCORD LP.
  • Fuck, let me pay Aurum to CONCORD to fix my sec status.
  • Bring back the old "DED Connections" skill and change it so that I get even higher sec status from shooting rats instead of higher money.

:CCP:, I don't pay a subscription to this game to be forced into fucking purgatory to do shit for hours that's not fucking fun.  Fix this.  Now.

Garth out!

The preceding has been an important message from Jester's evil twin, Garth.  The management apologizes to any and all whom Garth may have offended.  He said something that made sense once, but that was a long time ago.

EDIT (16/Mar/2012): Garth confirms that this will be fixed.  Huzzah!  Good call, CCP.

30 comments:

  1. If only blow jobs were all it took to get CCP to fix their fucking game.

    ReplyDelete
  2. This fast talk? "Skill at interacting with Concord. 5% Bonus to effective security rating increase."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bother. Garth was thinking of a different skill. I made him come back and fix it. ;-)

      Delete
  3. There is no way in the world that shooting -10 pirates to raise your sec status would ever be exploited. No way. Nuh uh.

    The fact that people are now complaining about raising sec status being painful is A Good Thing™. This is one of the better ways of increasing the cost/benefit equation of suicide ganking in hisec. Is blowing up that hulk really worth an hour of eye-bleeding PvE action?

    Ideally suicide ganks would reduce faction standings too, so too many suicide ganks would lead to you being KOS with whichever faction's space you happen to be most misbehaved in. Then you'd be facing faction standings grinds (i.e.: mission running) instead of just the moderately bearable task of shooting battleships in your safe null sec constellation.

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    Replies
    1. Making it more difficult to sec up isn't going to reduce the amount of Hulk suicide ganks. Its already so difficult to sec up now most suicide gankers don't even bother and have -10 highsec suigank alts that they use.

      Also, sec gains are shared if you're in a fleet, regardless of who gets the last blow, although this is slightly bugged and inconsistent, so you need to make sure you're still getting sec ticks. Leaving and rejoining fleet can help if you're not.

      I'm so glad that you wrote a post about this becuase I feel like its one of the biggest issues regarding game complexity and after reading it inspired me to write this post.

      http://cry-moar.blogspot.com/2012/03/stealth-nerfs-and-game-complexity.html

      Delete
    2. For a community that claims to not give a damn about sec status, I hear a lot of whining about having to grind sec status back up to sane levels.

      Delete
    3. I made a choice a long while ago to gank hulks. The high cost of building back my sec status means I will continue to gank hulks for a very long time. The rules, as they exist, encourage gankers to stay gankers. The only thing that would change my mind was if I had a crew large enough to target freighters. Jester, I am coming for the moon goo. I want the moon goo. I will have the moon goo.

      As for faction standings, I am already KOS in empire space. Space Pigs want my ass regardless of what I am currently doing. It bothers me not. As for faction standing, I have a market alt that does my boring work. It can suffer the status grind. As for jump cloans... meh. They are a mild convenience.

      Delete
    4. Oh look, another puling carebear, whining for :CCP: to make hisec safer from those mean, nasty other *people*.

      Been there, done that, puked on my clothes and pissed on my boots. Go back to Hello Kitty Online, Mara.

      Delete
    5. Not to burst you're bubble but I gank hulks at -10 regularly. So grinding up sec status is a non issue to people that gank miners (you put several cov ops in belts and one on your entry gate, jump in your thrasher army from lowsec warp to covops alt 1 gank Hulks any concord survivors warp on to covops alt 2 and so on till all the thrashers are dead... sec status is pretty irrelevant).

      The only gankers to whom sec status is an issue is for profit hauler gankers as they need to actually be in hi-sec while not moving.

      Delete
  4. Forgot to add, you can't just sit in fleet, you need to have aggression to the rat as well for the gain to be shared.

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  5. God I love Garth he should come out more:)

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  6. Sounds like Garth needs to HTFU

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  7. "The worst pirates in the game are capsuleers, right? Give me sec status for shooting at player pirates with low sec status where I find them."

    ^ This.

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  8. Hey Garth,

    Just wanted to remind you that most Eve subscribers never leave high security space. This means we don't really need to give a shit about low sec, security status, or 0.0 because the bulk of our income comes from players who will never experience these parts of the game.

    Regards, Fuckyou

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  9. I think we should be able to spend Aurum to increase sec status. Bribe the powers that be, so to speak.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hmm, I always here how "boring" pve in EVE is, or more frequently, how "fucking boring" it is. I beg to differ. After working for 12 hours, spending time with the family, and putting the kids to bed, I have 1 hour to myself before I collapse with exhaustion for the day. Playing EVE, specifically running missions and exploration, is *exactly* what I enjoy most. Maybe growing up on MUDs, text adventures, and Elite gives me a different perspective/appreciation on gaming, or maybe I just want to relax and not get stressed while playing a game--either way, I really enjoy EVE pve, and look forward to future content.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. my life looks much the same
      however i usually end my day by ganking someone or if im really lucky, finding an actual fight
      any of theese puts a smile on my face and makes me sleep like a baby
      i too love Elite ;)

      Delete
  11. WTB more Garth posts...

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  12. Garth for CSM7!!

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  13. Well, if regaining one's sec status is difficult, perhaps one should take better care of one's sec status in the first place. On the other hand, real lowsec badasses cheerfully wear their -10 status with pride and sneer at the very idea of entering highsec.

    Thus, if Garth's delicates are in a twist over the level of effort it takes to recover sec status, then he is either shooting the wrong people in lowsec, or is not the paragon of bad-assitude he seems to think he is.

    Don't do the crime if you can't do the time is, I believe, the appropriate late-night television maxim.

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    Replies
    1. I feel sad for all the people who have never been in a hi-sec corp that breaks out the frigates and goes on a zero-fucks-given low sec roam every now and then. Sure the local pirates will kill everything that moves, but if you encounter another roaming gang, what are you supposed to do? Wait for them to dictate the terms of the battle and get aggression/gcc first?

      The big point is that you want people to dabble in different play styles. You want the bears who crunch rocks five days a week to be able to tear it up on the weekend. You would think CCP would like this, but their stealth nerf only encourages a max/min playstyle. You either go -10 or spend a lot of lonely shooting red crosses. Also, since the sec standing gain is based on bounty, the best places to grind are in null/low sec, however because of the obvious threat you want to do that in a group, but now you are penalized for it.

      If I wanted to break out the tin foil hat, I would claim that this change makes perfect sense. Why? Now people need to have a low sec pvp account and a hi-sec make money/transport ships account. It is now much harder to have one character support this play-style. You think it is a coincidence that they release the expansion and shortly thereafter offer The Power of Two promotional? :P

      Delete
  14. Since I am the one who first raised this and has been beating the horse incessantly, a couple of comments are in order:

    Anyone who said "If you cant do the time, dont do the crime" or words to that effect has missed the point. We were grudgingly doing the time but the judge added a few years on to our sentence while our lawyer wasnt looking. Not a nice surprise, and yes, it is a nerf to our play style as a group.

    What I find difficult to accept is that the change was made without consultation or discussion. No one knew, not even CCPs GMs. And after the fact we're being told its as it should be....BTW, this is what leads to Garth's conspiracy theory.

    So yes - I want it changed back. Or better yet - change the PvP mechanic to be consistent with this change so that only the player who lays the final blow on another capsuleer takes the big sec status hit. I'd pay ISKies for that fix.

    ReplyDelete
  15. http://rvbeve.com/blue/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=165403

    21,831,365,800.00 isk kill

    Fullerides 3327200 8,278.07 M
    Nanotransistors 1909800 11,819.75 M
    Technetium 5900 711.54 M

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  16. Wow! These are some INCREDIBLY juicy tears. I thought I'd have to become a ganker or a ninja that never honors a ransom to get such juicy tears. Thanks!

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  17. A forum poster once asked : what happens in low-sec, stays in low-sec !

    There are so many solutions to making the casual roam a viable play-style. If only CCP would play their game...

    ReplyDelete
  18. Why you don't get sec status for shooting someone with negative sec status:

    Bad Guy 1 "I have bad sec status"

    Bad Guy 2 "I do also"

    Bad Guy 1 "I just bought 100 cheap frigates and t1 guns, I'll give you half. You kill me and I'll kill you and we'll be back to positive sec status quickly."

    Bad Guy 2 "Deal"

    If CCP didn't see that coming, I'm sure someone either mentioned it or did it on SISI.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Then only toons with an already positive sec status should get sec gain from ganking anyone with negative sec. If you have negative sec you should loose as before. Or, come to think of it; why not change it to no gain nor loss if a pirate shoots another pirate - that would be neat!

      Anyone in agression fleet having negative sec status makes everyone in fleet lose sec, regardless.

      Should be easy to implement also, CCP...

      Delete
  19. I hate that MMOs make single player more attractive. WoW does this too by making you split XP between your group. They buff the gains a little but in a game like WoW where you can easily kill a whole group fairly quickly, adding someone else into your group results in a slower leveling process. Don't even think about doing gathering quests, "collect 10 eyeballs" is a nightmare with a group... instead I'll just play massively single player.

    What is so bad about the group farming standing vs doing it solo? There really isn't a downside to letting the group do it that I can see at the expensive of making this game more single player as well.

    Companies need to be reminded that the second M in MMO is multiplayer. We don't want single player games.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Most people seemed to have missed the salient point here: CCP introduced a change to the game (rather significant for some people) without properly informing the player base. Again.

    The details of the change are irrelevant. The fact it was done by the Tip-Toe, Sneak, and Infiltrate Gang smacks of the old way of doing things CCP was (is?) so fond of and which Crucible had given us all hope they had modified.

    ReplyDelete

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