Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Thursday, April 12, 2012

Bait Hulk emergent gameplay

There's a pretty good discussion going on in my Bait Hulk post from yesterday discussing my active fit an an alternative passive fit posted by LtCol Laurentius.  It's in the comments.  Another anonymous commenter then suggested the new Micro Auxiliary Power Core II would allow an even stronger passive fit (which I have modified a bit for more resists):

[Hulk, Bait Hulk Passive]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x5


And that fit handily beats Laurentius's fit and is arguably superior to my fit, having 46k effective HP with a shield-/mind-link Tengu in system.  With all hardeners overheated, it has 89% kinetic resistance, which is going to be damned tough for Catalysts to crack.  If you still want to get some mining done during Hulkageddon, this might be a way to do it.  Even better, you don't have to do anything unnatural in terms of rigging your Hulk: the standard CDFEs are all you need.

But all of these fittings are trying to maintain an appearance of normalcy that shatters if a Ship Scanner is used on you.  Even "worse", for mining purposes, none of these ships are particularly ideal.  At best, you get about half the mining yield you would with a more normal Hulk fit.

And in the particular broken way in which my mind works, it made me start to wonder what could be done with a Hulk if grid and CPU were no object.  That set me thinking to applying wormhole and Rooks and Kings tactics to a Hulk.  Suppose during Hulkageddon, you set your directional scanner to ten million kilometers or so and spammed it as you mined.  And suppose you had an Orca within refitting range as you mined.

In that case, you could use a perfectly normal Hulk during Hulkageddon.  Then, when you saw Catalysts on your directional scanner, refit to this:

[Hulk, Bait Hulk Refit]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x5


First, if the combat ships are larger in numbers than you feel comfortable with -- say five or six -- warp off.  If you see alpha ships like Tornadoes or Hurricanes, warp off.  It takes a ship about 16 seconds to drop out of warp from ten million kilometers.  That is sufficient time for you to align and warp off even from a dead stop.

But say you only see three or four Catalysts on directional?

When you see combat ships on directional, shut off your strip miners and pull the crystals.  Then open a fitting window and drag the strip miners into the Orca's CHA.  Then start swapping mods from the same CHA, overheating the hardeners as you fit them.  Practicing this morning, I was able to refit from a normal Hulk to this refit in about 13-14 seconds.

And a Hulk fit this way has 61k effective HP and 88.5% kinetic resistance.

Daft?  Sure.  Almost cheating?  Maybe.  But you're not targeted (yet), so even if CCP Greyscale gets his wish and won't let you refit while targeted, you'll still be able to do this.  Remember, you have to be at close range to your Orca to refit from it.  And you get the amusing spectacle of being Ship Scanned and showing the gankers a standard Hulk fit.  Then when three Catalysts warp to you and try to kill you, you get to give them a WTF moment.  After they're dead, refit back.

Once again, even if you do this you'll almost certainly die sooner or later.  But if you're looking for the ultimate Hulk tank, this is probably it.  And with some vigilance, you might get some more or less normal mining done even right in the middle of Hulkageddon.

Die well!

26 comments:

  1. If you have an Orca within reffitting range of a Hulk during Hulkageddon, you will likely lose both your Hulk and the Orca... every mining and industry ship is on the "menu" during Hulkageddon, not just Hulks themselves.

    I like your "Martyr Hulk" ideas, but since the gankers will be using cheap disposable ships to gank with, maybe the "answer" for miners will be to field equally cheap mining ships. Sure, Retrievers can't make as much money as a Hulk, but @ around 10 million per hull, can probably make the money to pay for itself (R.O.I.) fairly quick, while paying off a 300 million ISK Hulk loss will require a lot of ore to make up for.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Were any properly-fit Orcas killed last year? Every Orca kill I saw last year was really really badly fit.

      Delete
    2. Last year t3 BC's didn't exist and destroyers couldn't pump out 600 DPS. I expect some dead Orcas this year.

      Delete
    3. Yeah, Orca's get killed too. These days, "properly-fit" for high sec transport and high sec mining says fit for maximum cargo or maximum mining, rather than fit any reasonable tank.

      It seems that the whine tanking - ie. endless complaining about high sec ganking in forums and blogs - is currently the preferred tank. :)

      Delete
    4. It is possible to fit an Orca to GTFO in 10 seconds: Reactor Core + MWD, no high slots. Of course that Orca will be no use to your mining operation beyond being a huge jet can and a SMA: but during Hulkageddon, that's all you need.

      Scan at 2M km, the moment you see combat ships inbound you start the orca warping out, activate the MWD and then set it red. Jettison cargo from the Hulks, stow them, and watch as the Orca disappears off to safety.

      With the tier 3 BCs we'll be seeing "properly tanked" Orcas dying this year. That's a maximum of 300k EHP to burn through, which in 0.5 will mean a maximum of 10k DPS from the ganking fleet required to get that kill, which means 10 Oracles.

      Delete
    5. if u watch 10 t3 bc warp to your belt and your still sitting there you deserve to lose that orca

      Delete
    6. Ofc, GTFO assumes that you don't get bumped by a gank scout in the belt, before you can get into warp....

      Delete
  2. or just fly a covetor. I like the idea though. Here's another idea if you're just looking to ruin a hulk ganker's day. Go to a popular ganking belt with an Osprey fit something like this:

    high: 1 miner, 3 med shield trans
    mid: cap mods
    low: cap mods

    If destroyers pop up, lock up the hulks and rep whomever they go after.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You could make quite a bit of money offering your services with a ship like this. A wage of 100m for every gank that you avert and you could get a decent penny from one of the only ways of running 'security detail' for a high sec mining op.

      Delete
  3. The nice thing about your Orca refitter is that Orca's are commonly part of a mining fleet anyways. Nothing at all unusual about seeing one next to a solo Hulk.

    But, the smart high sec miner doesn't spam the directional scanner. Rather, he/she puts alts on the gates in the adjacent systems and just watches local. If a large number of potential hostiles shows up, then you dock your Hulk in the Orca and warp to station.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why do you have alts watching gates instead of mining?

      The smart miner has all their alts mining in order to maximise profit in the time that the gankers are not there. Then GTFO when combat ships are detected in warp towards your belt, or if more than one person you don't recognise appears in local.

      Delete
    2. Because alts on trial accounts cannot mine, but they can scout.

      And, it is the greedy - not smart - miner who has all his/her alts mining, in paper-thin Hulks and Macks. The same ones who have been getting spanked by Never Ask Why... :)

      Losing a Hulk or two tends to obliterate a lot of profit.

      Delete
    3. Or just keep hammering dscan. Set up a pvp profile, check the use overview checkbox, put all 9s in the range, and keep hitting the dscan button.

      If a bunch of tornados or thrashers appear, you might want to just leave.

      Delete
  4. Mining fit a Rohk, and do it old school. Properly fit, it should outperform a Retriever.

    Killing a mining Rohk with a t2 shield tank in the mid slots is going to take a lot Tornados.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Costs a lot more than a Retriever, too - in skills and ISK.

      Delete
  5. Sorry, didn't see Gevlon's post earlier.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Eh, my Hulk usually stays in the Orca SMA when not in use. If I saw suspicious people start to show up in local or on DS I'd just swap back to the AF I use to run around normally and have the Orca dock.

    ReplyDelete
  7. If you are gonna have an orca that close, don't forget the reps :)

    ReplyDelete
  8. These are my thoughts:

    Following along with the Osprey idea above, I changed some stuff up:

    [Osprey, New Setup 1]
    Capacitor Power Relay II
    Co-Processor II
    Capacitor Power Relay II

    Medium Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400
    [empty med slot]
    [empty med slot]
    [empty med slot]

    Large Shield Transporter II
    Large Shield Transporter II
    Prototype Cloaking Device I
    [empty high slot]

    Obviously you lose a (very) tiny amount of mining potential, but with the cloak there is virtually no way they could know of what you're planning. Even with the scan res penalty from the cloak you can easily lock-up your friendly hulk in just over 6 seconds. More than enough time. Especially give this:


    [Hulk, New Setup 1]
    Damage Control II
    Co-Processor II

    Invulnerability Field II
    Invulnerability Field II
    Ballistic Deflection Field II
    Heat Dissipation Field II

    Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
    Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
    Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

    With OH and your friendly neighborhood Osprey repping you you're going to have ~5000dps tank vs those pesky catalysts.

    Oh, and have I mentioned that the six link tengu you have giving you boosts in that POS can provide mining bonuses to the tune of 1700+ yield per minute?

    Also, this form of tanking scales easily, and can be applied to multiple hulks (assuming they don't gank all of them at once).

    The one downside is that tornados are bad news.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's been a long time since I last used a non-covops cloaking device: isn't there a 30 second delay from decloaking until you can start targeting anything?

      Delete
    2. Oh crap. :D Totally forgot about that. Well nevermind then.

      Delete
    3. Yes, the non-covops cloaks do have a targeting delay ... it is in the attributes for each type.

      It's going to take a lot more than six seconds to start repping.

      If you are going to depend on a repper, just have it stand nearby in fleet and just keep repping you constantly. If they target the repping cruiser, good. Your expensive hulk gets away.

      Delete
    4. Um sorta, base recalibration delay is 30 seconds, but if you have cloaking @ IV its a more respectable 18 seconds..... Have it at V and it's 15 seconds....

      Basically you need to be on the ball with directional.... Assuming you are rescanning every 3 seconds as quick as D-scan will allow, you are talking about 28 seconds of exposure.... 3 seconds d-scan, 18 decloak (assume you have cloaking IV) 6 seconds locking, 1 second for server ticks and margin of error... lets say 30 seconds for rounding.

      It takes 15 seconds to decelerate from warp, 1-2 seconds to orientate your view and find your target on overview and 3 seconds to lock.... means hulk has to survive 10 seconds before first shield reps land, gonna be cutting it close I think. Nice idea though.

      If you can manage to swap the fit out for an Improved Cloaking device II you can cut your recal time to 12 seconds, that would improve things for sure.

      Delete
  9. small nuets in the highs get some km with it.....claws of the carebear

    ReplyDelete
  10. well if your doing that why not add a few spidertanking logistic ships?

    ReplyDelete
  11. Ignore the cloak.
    [Osprey, Logi]
    Nanomechanical CPU Enhancer I
    Nanomechanical CPU Enhancer I
    Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I
    F-b10 Nominal Capacitor Regenerator
    F-b10 Nominal Capacitor Regenerator
    F-b10 Nominal Capacitor Regenerator
    F-b10 Nominal Capacitor Regenerator

    Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
    Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
    Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

    This can put out 230 shield bonus per second for 26 seconds at a total cost of 18 mil. about a mil less than a cheap fit catalyst. taking the inverse of the resists (70%) to calculate, that's an extra 20k ehp to get though. Also the osprey gets 50k range on these things. so just stay a good distance off the belt, and they cant primary the osprey without leaving the hulks to get away.

    ReplyDelete

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