Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Wednesday, July 11, 2012

Comment of the Week: It's alive!

For those who don't read the comments on my posts, this is an important one, a reply from Hans Jagerblitzen to my post yesterday about the CSM's present  inactivity.  As far as I'm concerned, the entire comment should be posted to Hans's own blog, but in the meantime I reproduce it here in full.  The comment was a response to an anonymous comment noting the many issues that the CSM could be talking about and could be asking players about, and asked if the list is the sort of thing the CSM should be engaging the players on, right?

Hans's reply:
It most certainly is. The challenge is finding that balance between working, and taking time away from doing your work to prove that you're doing your work by talking to the community about what you're talking about with the community. (If that sentence sounded redundant, than you understand my point) The first will always take priority over the second for me personally, as I'm not near as preoccupied with public opinion or re-election as I am actually making the most of this opportunity. While CCP is currently on their summer break (I'll elaborate in an upcoming blog) my work instead lies with the community itself, making sure I know exactly what to fight for when the discussion resumes with CCP regarding the next content release. When I'm not working on the minutes I'm still forum posting with CCP, forum posting with players, skyping with CCP, fielding email correspondence, and most time-consuming of all: actually talking with players about what's going on in the warzone, not to mention playing the game to see for myself)

For a CSM representative like myself with a major feature on the operating table, this time of the year is even more demanding, given the sense of urgency it is critical that I know exactly what the players want, which takes time to sort out. Forum posts, email responses, impromptu in-game conversations, radio appearances and podcasts, all eat up time that I'm also expected to be making progress on the minutes. Seeing as how good portions of what we do we can't talk about in detail yet (such as anything covered by the minutes and the work-in-progress threads on the internal CSM/CCP forums) its even more challenging to keep up with everyone's insatiable thirst for the latest news.

I am certainly one of the CSM members that hasn't blogged in a bit, but its for the simple reason that I can't in good conscience sit around and chit chat in a neutered fashion when there is still work to be done on the minutes themselves, which are almost complete. We're actually further along than Jester assumes, since the completed sessions are already sailing through the CSM approval progress, many have been signed off by all the CCP participants so there shouldn't be any super-long delay once the final sessions are wrapped up.

I'll blog very soon - both about the work we've been up to on the minutes as well as about Faction Warfare in particular, though anyone following my posts in the dev-sponsored pair of threads related to Faction Warfare in Features and Ideas already knows what I've been talking to CCP about and where the conversation is going.

I know its frustrating, and I appreciate everyone's patience, but I just have a tough time sitting down to write neutered material when I could be delivering what you guys all really want to read instead. We're really aiming for the most comprehensive coverage of the CSM summit to date, and there's no quick way to write three times as much material as typical CSM minutes, as well as deliver them in the same timeframe. Once we're completed, you can all decide whether it was worth the delay, and if you'd rather have less information in the future, you'll certainly find little resistance from the CSM members. :)
Great comment, Hans, and thanks!  Again, this comment in its entirety is something that Hans could (and should!) post to his own blog.  Not every blog post has to be a masterpiece of detail on what's being done.  Just an assurance that things are being done is often quite good enough.  The idea that "working on stuff" and "talking to the players about stuff" are two different things is -- to me -- a fallacy.  Talking to the players is part of the work of the CSM.

One related item bears mentioning, too.  There's a tendency among what I'll politely call the "less active" CSM members -- for every CSM -- to think that their work starts and ends with the two Iceland summits.  These CSM members seem to think they were elected to go to those meetings and other than that, their jobs have no other expectations or responsibilities.  In my opinion, nothing could be further from the truth.  That's why I'm going to continue to be very specific (as I was last year) about which CSM members are and are not helping with the other work of the CSM.

Including the work of keeping the players informed of what the CSM is doing.  That's where accountability comes into it.  That will also come up when I read the minutes: I'll be looking at who said what and who thinks what.

Thanks again for your reply, Hans!  Now, how about the rest of the CSM?  I know some of y'all are out there.


  1. Between Mittens and Jester we may one day take the Meta-game to a whole new level with a Shadow-CSM(TM).

    EVE is exciting, in theory.

    1. Well its really interesting to read about at least to me.
      The CSM is a bold concept to have in a game and if it works, it must be a amazing thing to have, for both players and developers.

  2. The CSM minutes that will be released will be the most detailed and transparent in EVE history, including the level of personal accountability (sometimes even direct quotes) which many players, including one Ripard Teg, have long called for. As mentioned in your earlier post, the price for this will be the longest minutes in EVE history. High level of detail, quick release, having minute-writers making blog posts: pick two.

    What you will see in those meeting minutes is Seleene showing some pretty damn good leadership. He's away right now, but it shouldn't even TAKE that level of leadership to get the minutes out. Yes it's quite vexing that some CSM are not contributing to the process, but that theme has been running through most of CSM7. Seleene is far from that problem though, and I think people will be pleased when the minutes come out both in regards to Seleene's contribution and the quality in general.


    Since i saw this asked for in a previous comment thread, here's a summary of almost every week in CSM7 hehehe XD

    "CCP asked us about something they're thinking about in Skype, present CSM told them the thoughts off the top of their head. CCP made a post about possible changes to which several members of the CSM replied. Some CSM made tweets, one did a blog post, some appeared on a podcast."

    You can copy paste that any time you'd like a weekly summary of CSM activity ;p

    And speaking of podcasts, any time you (or any of your readers) would like to come on mine and discuss lack of CSM communication via one of the CSM's regular communication tools you're more than welcome.

    1. What is the link for CSM7's list of regular communications tools, publications and appearances?

    2. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92106&find=unread

    3. Thanks...the list of blog and twitter links is cool but content they offer is not always CSM-relevant nor guaranteed to be around after any given CSM (or former CSM) stops playing EVE and decides to trash their blog (as I did recently). What if I wanted to listen to all the podcasts you guys have appeared in? Are they summarized somewhere for easy access? Where will minutes be linked such that they don't get buried in the forums after the thread stops getting replies?

      My point is, the easier you make it for players to find "the good stuff", the more likely they will actually read/listen/engage with it. And by doing it in one place, you can just consistently point them to a whole slew of resources with a single, well publicized link.

  3. Thumbs up, Hans.

    You know what the CSM is lacking this time is a narcissistic glory-hound who loves to steal credit for other people's work. Wonder where we can find one of those.

  4. I was one of those impromptu in-game chatees, when I saw Hans somewhere in the warzone (as a pretty recent addition to the amarr militia) two or so weeks ago.

    Remember, Ripard/jester, not everybody is a blogger first, there are other ways of keeping in touch with us (the community).

    1. I look for the CSM to communicate with the players on their own blogs, on the EVE-O forums (particularly in Jita Park) and on other EVE fora, most particularly Failheap Challenge, which has set aside a whole section just for the CSM.

      If you're aware of other ways in which the CSM is officially communicating, I'd love to hear about them. I will admit that I don't monitor the podcasts as closely as other people do.

    2. Would be cool if there was a list of the places we're activly communicating XD


  5. I seem to remember the CSM being rather busy last year, still a few of them found the time to communicate with the players.

  6. I do have a blog. Been crunched in RL and have been waiting for the minutes to be released so I can really comment on CSM activities once I know what isn't NDA-ed.

    My Blog http://isslerdainze.wordpress.com

    I'll get back to it more regularly in the near future.

    I can say there are some active CSM and you should see devblogs about a lot we've been discussing with CCP soon.


  7. This proves my point : if Hans does not notice this piece of text is worth its own blog post but instead hides it as the reply of a reply of someone else's blog post....the CSM needs a speaker role.


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