Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Friday, August 17, 2012

Kill of the Week: Cash out

Once again I'm going to go with something a little fun and goofy for KOTW:

After I wrote my post last week about faction warfare, I realized that I had forgotten to mention the process or the need for "cashing out."  So it was probably fate that while I was looking for a good KOTW this week, this little hauler kill-mail fell into my hands.  It's just a lovely demonstration of cashing out and the repercussions thereof.

Once you've run hundreds of faction warfare sites and built up anywhere from 10000 to 25000 LP per site, eventually you'll want to convert that LP into ISK.  The simplest way is to buy implants, usually +3 and +4 attribute implants which sell relatively quickly and for good prices.  Still, an alternative method is to purchase ship blueprints, which is what this individual did.  The blueprints are quite valuable commodities for both PvPers and PvEers.

In this case, this person bought five each of Apoc Navy Issue and Omen Navy Issue BPCs, plus nearly 100 Imperial Navy Slicer BPCs.  The kill-mail reports all of those BPCs as being worth 0 ISK, but I assure you that isn't the case.  ;-)  Purchased from mission LP stores, this represents nearly 12 million LP.  If you've got good Social skills, that's about 2500 level 4 missions.

However, one of the quirks of faction war is that if one side or the other captures a lot of the systems involved in the war and spends LP to upgrade them, the "tier" of their rewards increases.  As the tier increases, the cost of items purchased in the LP store is reduced drastically.  Suddenly a 500,000 LP battleship BPC only costs 125,000 LP, or even 62,500 LP.

This is the thing that makes FW sites so profitable.  FW stores are a sink because there's also an ISK cost associated with most of the items you buy there.  But you can time your purchases for when the tier is the right level.  That's when it's time to go cash out: you buy your BPCs for substantially less ISK than their market value and then profit on the difference.  Word has it that Nulli Secunda decided to cash out of the Amarr militia this past weekend, which is why you see all these Amarr BPCs in this kill-mail.  This was the profit of many days or perhaps even a few weeks of sites run by someone, followed by substantial effort on Nulli Secunda's part to flip a lot of FW Infrastructure Hubs in boring structure shoots.  From what I saw, the Amarr side of this conflict pushed to tier 4, which isn't the maximum, but is quite good enough for substantial profits from cashing out.  Bei is in high-sec about ten jumps from Jita where this person was caught by a suicide ganker.

This person has also bought datacores, which I believe are exclusively available in the militia LP stores.  In this case, Nanite Engineering datacores are far and away the most valuable right now.(1)  Those datacores also represented both a sizable ISK investment (each stack of datacores has to be purchased with both ISK and LP).  So that's where the four billion ISK associated with this loss came from.

So... yeah.  This was a pretty substantial loss.  Do I need to mention again that you shouldn't pile this many valuables into a tech 1 hauler?  I guess I don't.  ;-)

Good kill, mighty1!

(1) I just cashed out a large stock of these myself, though mine came from Research Agents.


  1. Amarr sat at T1 for so long, this guys haul may have been months of work, gone in a flash. This is why I use, and highly recommend, Red and Blue Frog freight

  2. I'm always baffled when I see a player spending a copious amount of time on a game, to then waste it all by not having learnt the basic lessons of said game :| Someone should interview these people, I'd really like to know the chain of events leading to these =)

  3. Stargates are like Kansas trailer parks... Tornadoes love em.

  4. Jester you mentioned the LP reduction of Tier 4&5 store purchases but you forgot to mention that ISK sink is also reduced 50% or 75% which reduces the ISK sink per item.

  5. Owie - that kind of haul is just begging for a Viator. OK, it wouldn't have quite all fit, but you can make two trips in a blockade runner in not much more time than it would take for one trip in an Itty V - and if you're skilled for the Itty V, you're a week away from a cloaky Viator at the worst, and it's not like those blueprints and datacores are going to grow space mold while you wait.

    That or divide up the load into billion-ISK chunks and use Red Frog. Best guess is that this guy was in a real rush to cash out - and here I thought patience was supposed to be a virtue in EVE...

    1. Viator?


      Train an Orca pilot, tank the Orca properly, and put the damned things in the corporate hanger.

      No one see them, and they don't drop if you get nuked.

  6. Man, I moved my 640 slicer blueprints in 5 seperate trips in a cloaky legion just so if I got killed in one trip I would t lose anything. I also move my 240 built slicers in 2 jump freighter trips as I didn't trust moving them in a t1 freighter.

    Why anyone would move this shit in a hauler is beyond me.

  7. For every kill like this there are how many that make it through just fine? Let's not blow this out of proportion and suggest that EVERY, or even MOST, or even MANY t1 haulers moving this kind of stuff get ganked.

    Sometimes you just take the risk because, well, it IS just a game.

    Still, hurts like hell when you take the risk and lose.

    1. I dunno. I have friends who are out ganking in the Bei area probably 50% of the time. And pretty much anything with more than 250 million in the cargo that a single tornado can kill is fair game.

    2. Not saying folks aren't doing it, I'm just saying that if the numbers were as high as are implied, almost no haulers would live. And that's just not the case.

    3. The numbers are pretty high. I do a good business selling Tornadoes and Catalysts out of Hek.... :)

  8. Here is a better one of the same type of morons: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14335916

    I don't know what to say when I see such level of idiotism. Why is it so hard to get an Orca for bulky stuff or a Covops frig for blueprints/implants? Or a cloaky hauler? Or Black Frog?

    1. Because many of them are null sec alliance morons, who are used to feeling safe trolling around in their own part of 0.0 space, and don't realize that there are parts of high sec which are more dangerous than null sec.

      Needless to say, they also can't fly Orcas, or Covops frigs, or cloaky blockade runners.

  9. Even people that know better don't always do what they should.


    He was hauling a night's worth of loot out to empire in that. He got ganked, we chewed him out for quite a bit and it's still a running joke. He knew better, and could fly a cloaky hauler, but for some reason just had that "I am safe" feeling and figured he could do it in a t1 hauler.

    It's all about your mental state tbh. For us it was "only one night" aka 2, maybe 3 hours of work, so somehow in cook's mind it wasn't worth going t2 hauler for(unlike the 20-40b that a couple days work would be) but for that single suicide ganker it was "zomg 6b isk."

    For that FW pilot, maybe all those BPCs represented not a lot of effort to him(tho I find that hard to believe based on the sheer number of stuff), therefore he decided it really wasn't worth the effort of doing something else?

    People often only take their own perspective's into account in eve, and not everyone else's.


  10. The thing is, you really don't need to spend the isk on a nado. When 2 ruptures can do the same job. But to each his own.

  11. Well Ty for choosing my kill as kill off the week.

  12. My AFK T1 hauler has more than 10,000 single-run T1 ammo BPCs in those plastic-wrapped courier packages (smaller than using cargo containers). Good luck to any ganker who scans my cargohold.


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