Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Friday, October 19, 2012

Quote of the Week: Actual flying skill

themittani.com got themselves a phone interview with Chris Roberts, whom I talked about the other day.  There isn't a whole lot of new information in the interview if you've read the Star Citizen website, but there IS this little nugget.  When asked if mining in Star Citizen will be as boring as mining in EVE Online, Roberts says:
[Laughter] Mining and trading will take some level of actual flying skill, whereas in Eve you are just sort of clicking a button every once in awhile to make money. It’s sort of like playing Farmville and I hate that stuff. I feel that the first person, active flying experience in Star Citizen will turn, for instance, a boring trade run from Eve Online into a more immersive and exciting experience.
I'd say the guy knows who the competition is, wouldn't you?

As I write this, the project has now raised more than $1.1 million U.S. on their main website in less than a week, and $200,000 on its Kickstarter page in less than 24 hours.  More than 17000 people have contributed so far, and I encourage you to do the same.  Even if you never intend to play it, wouldn't it be nice if EVE had a little competition to get CCP's blood moving?  It's pretty clear here the goal is less about the amount of money raised, and more about demonstrating to potential investors that this game would have hundreds of thousands of players and that there's a market out there.

Just something to think about...

30 comments:

  1. Why not ask CCP to hire this guy?

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    1. CCP won't be able to because this guy is badass with a vision and has an established reputation for awesomeness in the industry. CCP would be a lead weight on his neck keeping him from truly being innovative.

      All roads do NOT lead to CCP, Wheez50.

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  2. Right on point Jester! CCP could use a little competition. Who knows, Chris's comment about how mining in EVE is boring might move CCP'S meter a bit. Btw, I just contributed as a "Wingnut."

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  3. Kainotomiu RonukenOctober 19, 2012 at 3:21 PM

    On the other hand, it'd be terrible if this new game damaged EVE's playerbase, because while this Star Citizen game is certainly pretty and has lots of fancy features, it looks to me as if its going to be a much shallower game than EVE.

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    1. Your post is pure speculation with a dash of your own fear thrown in for good measure.

      CCP is not the CCCP the free market will be beneficial to them in the long run. EvE is never going to get bigger in terms of player base at this point unless CCP gets a fire lit under their collective asses. Which competition will do in spades or CCP will simply die off and we'll all be having this convo from an SS chat screen =)

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  4. Finally, some competition for Eve. Frankly, I play Eve only because I think it's the best space-sim out there. However, I played the heck out of Elite, WC, Privateer and Freelancer and would love to see that kind of universe brought back. Not to mention getting out of pods and back into cockpits!

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  5. Of course he says that. No one in their right mind seeks investors by saying: "Our PvE will be soul killing drudgery. People will pay us to play the game, but then resort to Botting rather than endure another minute of this slow suicide. After taking their money for many a year, we will ban them to the cheers of our mentally unstable playerbase."

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  6. Delivery in Nov 2014, yikes.

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    1. Do not fear : if you donate, you'll get beta or even alpha access one respectively two years earlier.

      Including the goody of being able to talk to devs nearly in a straight line.

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  7. I remember games with actual flying skill (crashing over and over into the edge of the docking bay in Elite) and I think I'd prefer not to play one.

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    1. Really?
      I would play the shit out of it...

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    2. Abso-fregging-lutely, Remi. And ontop of it, since you'll have multi-player this time around, the docking computer only gets switched on if the sight is clear of bogies.

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  8. Wait. THE Chris Roberts? Founder of Origin Systems? Creator of the Wing Commander series?!

    Well, CCP, EVE is gonna be -1 Hong soon as _that_ game goes live.

    It'll be really nice to be back to the sort of space game I can fly well in... oohh the pwnage is going to be so sweet. :-D

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    1. LOL Read the second link in this post.

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    2. Hey man, I try to read you and a few others religiously, but there's only so many :gudpoasts: one can read (or badpoasts one can write) before one starts itching to actually LOG IN and play the damn game. ;-)

      Now if only Straczynski announced an MMO set in the Babylon 5 universe... lol ;-)

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  9. Are people who play mmos really interested in the idea of a skill based game? Tera tried to go this route but even it still has the old item and level grind mechanics.

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    1. of course they are!

      the two things (skill based game and wow style items/levels) are not mutually inclusive you know. I would like to direct you to elite 2 frontier for example. a skill based game predicated on the idea that you can fly anything in the game if you can pay for it. also, flying the biggest most badass fit ship in that game does not make you a good pilot.

      i have a feeling that they will go a currency based route in Star Citizen just like in eve since that is one of the few things CCP actually pulled off well. it would be silly for them not to go that way just to stay different from eve. if the game is twitch, no one will be able to say that anyways.

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  10. The competition alone was reason enough for me to spend 30 $ for Star Citizen.

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  11. Looks like CFO has 2 years to het some better mechanics for some of the mote tedious things in the game. Hope CFO takes the best of what is produced and adds it to eve

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    1. In my opinion, if another game comes out that surpasses EvE. CCP is not going to have the capability to recover from the fact that their game has been rendered obsolete.

      Why? Look at how hard it has been for CCP to deal with the fallout of replacing their long term strategies of pushing Aurum and in game real money combat items. They are trying to fix all of this stuff they left in a terrible state prior to incarna dropping and are struggling to figure out how to even recode some things! Not to mention they pay their employees a pittance and have one of the most closed minded management teams in the gaming industry. You only have to look at professional networking sites to realize that true ingenuity is not rewarded or incentivized there.

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  12. I'm sorry but I fail to see how this dude no mater how awesome he is is going to be able to fix problems in game play that ccp hasn't already thought of and tried in the last 10 years. Most of the time its not for lack of innovation that holds ccp back its making it work with the technology avalible to them and their users. Its easy to think of new and awesome ideas the chalange is making them work without breaking the game. You don't think people at ccp haven't had good ideas about improving game play? Its the limits of the servers, code and player systems that hold back innovation which is the same limits this dudes guna have. Don't get me wrong I hope he does all the stuff he wants to but ill believe it when I see it.

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    1. +1 Did you see the fallout just from changing the Inventory UI?

      Imagine if CCP wanted to bring in wider-ranging game changes to Eve!!

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    2. Not wanting to get too technical, but, no, Anon, CCP is facing self-made issues today which SC will not have : EVE's server runs on code that partially dates back to before they launched in 2003.

      As an example : TQ cannot handle a solar system on more than one blade server. Directly opposed to how Roberts will do it in SC where every two ships meeting will spawn a game instance on a (virtual) server. And, incidentally, CCP goes the same route with (the newer) DUST implementation, where every one match goes to one (virtual) server.

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  13. This does sound very cool, but my expectations aren't very high. Hes talking about a lot of big stuff, but there is a reason Eve is run the way it is. Modern hardware would die if they attempted to put too many,even a few hundred, in one system.

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  14. Well making a trade run from system a to system b doesn't get interesting by simply flying in first person. You could do that in X3 and without that nice time multiplier it would be boring like hell.

    I really hope chris r. finds a solution to make that stuff interesting but it is a hard balance between reasonable travel time, enough to be attacked and boredom from repetitive traveling an too long distance.

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  15. As far as I'd like to fall for this game, it's not gonna have much in common with EVE. If you listen to the long presentation Roberts gave of the game (http://www.gamespot.com/shows/gamespot-live/?event=roberts_space_industries_gdc_panel20121010), he makes it clear that to allow this level of simulation, the game is going to be heavily instantiated, allowing about 100 people in the same place at the same moment. So I don't see how this could compare to EVE in terms of scale.

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  16. (I put this on themittani.com, figured I'd repost here as this is where I found out about Star Citizen)

    Browsing that site and reading through the forums – I feel like I'm looking at the blueprints of the Titanic and going “I hope they take another look at those bulkheads before they actually build her.”

    In my opinion, Star Citizen is already making design decisions that completely break its design goals. That's a ticket to disappointment. Here's two examples, paraphrased from various designer comments:

    “The physics are completely Newtonian! Except we put in an artificial speed cap to keep things from getting silly.” This means your flight physics won't be Newtonian at all. It means you won't be able to do things like reach escape velocity from any significant body, which probably means you've fudged gravity as well. All you're left with is a regular arcade flight model with inertia.

    “One huge persistent server with everyone on it! Except we'll limit player interaction to instances of 100 or so players to keep things under control.” And that means you can never really allow everyone to interact with everyone. I can only imagine the fun of being queued up for a massive fleet fight, waiting for someone to die so I can take his slot in the instance. By the time my 500-man fleet has fully cycled through, the ones who were first out should have had plenty of time to re-ship, re-queue, fix dinner and watch a movie.

    When your ambitions exceed your ability to realize them, you need to revise those ambitions. Writers call this “killing your babies” - no matter how much you'd love to use that wonderful alliteration or witty turn of phrase you came up with, if it doesn't work, you need to kill it. Otherwise you just end up doing things half-assed. Like Freelancer.

    Best of luck, Chris Roberts. I hope you pull it off!

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  17. There is an inherent problem.

    A twitch/flight-simulator style gameplay clashes with an Eve-style-universe-bigfight with hundreds of players crashing into a complex fight. No way current server hardware will be able to handle that (ping/latency will be a problem way before you reach two or three hundred players).

    Latency matters far less with eve's combat mechanics, which are way less demanding on servers anyway (1sec tick).

    Other than that, I'll be watching with interest. I doubt it'll compete much with eve, though. It'll be complementary, I suspect.

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    1. Having gone through the Star Citizen website and read up on what they want to do, the game sounds less like an epic-scale sandbox on the order of EVE, and more like a multiplayer version of Battlecruiser 3000AD. There isn't any mention of player ownership of anything beyond ships, there's lots of talk of private servers, single player offline modes, and other such stuff.

      I get the feeling that this is going to be WoW in space, rather than EVE Online flight simulator.

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  18. I can see the excitement about this, but also sense a sort of staleness with CCP that seems a little unfair. Currently we have three games in one, planned anyways, that are currently seperate but seem as if they will be integrated in the future. ie Traditional EVE (third person view, numerical, detached), DUST (FPS, individual movement) and EVE-R (FPS cockpit view, ship combat). I suspect CCPs strategy is aiming to fully integrate these into one game where you can choose pilot view (FPS, third person, etc), WIS fully developed and interactions, and land on a planet and FPS combat, walk around etc. If so, I cant see much else that will be anything near as awesome a game

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