Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Monday, October 15, 2012


Sorry about the lack of posts over the weekend.  It's been quite busy in Jesterland.  I'll be making up for it today, with at least four posts in a variety of topics (Guild Wars 2, KOTW, a picture of the week, and most importantly, a little Syndicate-related announcement).  So check back often today.

However, I thought I'd start today by highlighting an announcement which CCP has made, but which most of you may have missed because they've gone to great lengths to hide the announcement:

Starting in 20 hours as I write this, tier 5 faction warfare pushes will almost certainly be impossible until after the release of DUST 514.  If you intend to cash out of faction warfare, better do it now.

How do I know this?  The details are in the patch notes they've released this morning.  On their face, they're minor preparatory changes intended to ready Tranquility for the release of DUST 514 which looks increasingly like it's going to be out at the same time as Retribution or so.  You certainly won't see any overt announcement that tier 5 will be impossible tomorrow.

But this is :CCP: we're talking about.  They don't exactly always announce this sort of nerf, do they?

By all means, go read the patch notes, because they discuss a major change to EVE Online Faction Warfare.  Still, the tl;dr version of the patch notes is that DUST 514 is going to affect FW capture status of any system with one or more temperate planets in it.  For each temperate planet to a maximum of four, 12.5% of the system's capture status will be controlled by DUST 514.  So if a system has two temperate planets, 75% of the system's capture will be governed by traditional EVE Online means and 25% will be controlled by DUSTies.

But until DUST 514 is implemented, those systems that have temperate planets in them will have those planets set to the faction that "traditionally" owns them.  And while that's going to make some systems between 12.5% and 50% easier to capture, it's also going to make other systems ("traditionally" Amarr systems, for instance) between 12.5% and 50% harder.  If a system traditionally controlled by Amarr has four temperate planets in it, 50% of the capture status of that system will be controlled by DUST 514 and EVE players in the Minmatar faction won't be able to change it.  Tomorrow.

Here's the two key lines straight from the patch notes:
  • Each temperate planet in Factional Warfare space contributes by 12.5% to the System Capture Status Victory Point pool, for a maximum of 50% Victory Points in Factional Warfare solar systems with four temperate planets.
  • Until DUST514 is fully implemented on Tranquility, planetary districts have been set to belong to the NPC faction that traditionally owned the Factional Warfare solar system before players interference.
Now I haven't done the math here but it seems quite likely to me that there are enough temperate planets in the FW systems to make pushing some of those systems to tier 5 impossible... and if that's true, then it seems equally likely to me that tier 5 overall is also going to be equally impossible.

Until DUST 514 starts being capable of helping with those tier 5 pushes, that is.  When that will be, CCP has not announced.  What changes CCP will have made to the mechanic for even getting to tier 5 have also not been announced.  But CCP Soundwave has stated that he does want to change those mechanics to make FW less about pushes to tier 5 every two weeks and more about the tiers reflecting the real status of the faction wars at any given time.

Anyway, I could be reading all of this wrong.  But I thought I'd read between the lines for those of you who might have missed it.  One more time: if you intend to cash out of FW, I'd do it today.


  1. I might be entirely wrong here, but isn't achieving system lvl 5 simply a matter of investing sufficient LP in the FW i-hub thingie?

    Unless the change makes it impossible to capture certain systems, I don't think the change is really going to affect tier 5 pushes.

  2. Deep breaths, Jester, deep breaths.

    Keep in mind a few things: First, the frequency of temperate planets scattered throughout the various warzones. (There's not as many as you'd think.)

    Secondly, Dust 514 affecting a system by 50% pales in comparison to the fact that plexers can easily run a system to 200% beyond the point of vulnerability. (Thankfully, this practice ends with Retribution)

    I have LP myself, I'm not rushing to cash it out, and I have zero fear about militias being able to hit Tier 5 even with this new effect.

    1. "With such changes, it means the system will require 37.5% more Victory Points to capture if owned by the Amarr Empire FW militia, or 37.5% less Victory Points to capture if owned by the Minmatar Republic militia."

      From the Devblog. Which seems to suggest that systems can be captured without DUST 514 intervention ... you'll simply need to plex more than you'd normally have to.

  3. Minmatar cashed out yesterday, if its true what the temperate will do, people are lucky big time !

  4. "Capture Status Victory Point pool" just means more plexs to make a system vun. Dumps will still be the same.

  5. From what I read, the change affects how long it will take to push a system into vulnerable status - once you've *got* a system, the mechanics for upgrading it still remain the same. One control point for holding the system, another for each level of upgrade, which doesn't seem to have changed with the patch.

    Once a faction flips systems in preparation for a Tier V push, the systems go vulnerable pretty quickly, with members of the opposing faction plexing vigorously, and with the need to keep a few nodal station systems from going vulnerable. If you head into Black Rise or Placid and check the FW dialog screen, you'll see a shocking number of systems already vulnerable, just waiting to be bashed. That doesn't get changed by the patch.

  6. I don't think it's going to make a difference in reaching T5 at all. You have to attack the IHUB to flip a system's ownership to your side, thus preventing it from being upgraded by your enemies. They're talking about making the systems vulnerable, not actually flipping ownership.

    For example, Minmatar probably have 20-30 vulnerable systems, but because Amarr never attack those IHUB's to flip the ownership, Minmatar can still upgrade them and reach T5. It doesn't make any difference to Minmatar if the system is vulnerable, as long as it's theirs they can upgrade it.

  7. As Hans said ...

    It's a mechanic for system capturing. It doesn't stop plexers from running the system just the same or a little more to compensate.

    In fact most systems stay in the vurnerable state for days and weeks while plexers run the fuck out of them until cashout week when they actually go Poco bashing.

    So, the difference between a sytem being run 50% to vurnerable (potentially) vs the 10000% its already overrun for plex farming is beyond negligable.

    Really, that's probably the quickest fix right there. No LP for capturing plexes in a Vurnerable State System. Its capture or nothing. But hey, what am I, some kind of magical wizard with all these crazy logical ideas.

    Also, we already looked at the temperate planet count in the Gallente/Caldari front, its minimal. Most systems are Zero, with few at 1 planet. With the biggest concern being Aldrenette with a Whooping ... 2 Planets. May God help us.

    Again ... minimal if not completely an unaffectable item of change. When DUST goes live it will have the means to slightly help their faction capture a system slightly faster. Slightly. This would be good for overnight captures to keep opponnents from docking. But ... that can only be a short term trolling technique.

  8. Ummm I think you missed it here.... The planets make it so you need to do more complexes before the system become vulnerable, not controlling part of that system. So the planets will make it easier to catch if you hold them but harder if you do not, but not make it impossible.....

    Here is a quote from the patch notes.

    "With such changes, it means the system will require 37.5% more Victory Points to capture if owned by the Amarr Empire FW militia, or 37.5% less Victory Points to capture if owned by the Minmatar Republic militia."

    No where does it say you have to control the planet to take the system nor does it say the planet "own" part of the sov. Instead, it says it will be harder.

    Will it make tier 5 pushes harder, sure, but only because you have to plex more to take those systems, which means more LP in the long run so more iskies. This could instead be seen has a bonus instead of a nerf.

  9. I wish you were correct about the slowing down of Tier 5's Jester because ofthe long term affects it will having on the LP stores ISK sink function ( the short term effects on the velocity of money pushing the PLEX prices up is incredible too ) but I think CCP the Tier 5' monty haul cashins in lo dec will march on unabaited from what I understand of the mechanics.

  10. Another 30B ISK cashed out! By the time Retribution goes live, most of us full-time plex farmers will be well over 1T ISK in wallet!

    Is this laughably ridiculous, or what?

    I feel sorta bad for anyone who starts playing after FW payouts get nerfed. We're going to end up with just two classes of players in Eve - the uber rich and the uber poor - and all of the noobs are going to be forever stuck in the uber poor category... lol.

    1. Oh, there will always be a most-exploitable-mechanic. Never you fear.


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