Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Thursday, November 1, 2012

Separation anxiety

Want to ensure that you lose a mod in EVE and aren't able to find it again?  Throw it in a can somewhere.  Before too long, you'll have forgotten exactly which can, in which ship, in which station, on which character, the vital mod can be found.(1)

These days, my triage carrier has five of the seven divisions of its corp hangars full of stuff.  In the first is spare fuel and stront for travel and activating the triage mod.  In the second are mods that I might need to alter the exact fit of my triage carrier should I be dual-triaging with another player.  In the third are the mods I would need to convert the carrier to Pantheon fit should that be required.  And in the fourth are mods specific to another main I have that flies a dreadnought.  Often -- particularly during RK's current campaign -- the two ships are jumping to locations in tandem and it's handy to have the dread mods available in the carrier so I can devote the dread cargo space to fuel and ammo.  Finally, in the fifth division, I have an assortment of "spare" mods that are useful when escorting a battleship or other fleet: spare neuts to convert a BS to a full neut fit, additional tank and damage mods, a probe launcher and some probes, spare warp disrupt probes... that sort of thing.

Only now, I'm going to have to get a bunch of cans ready to store all this stuff in thanks to the latest changes to corporate hangar arrays (edited slightly):
  • Corp hangars *on ships* are now fleet hangars
  • Volumes will all stay the same
  • Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles
  • Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet
  • Ship fitting arrays on ships and star bases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simultaneously
  • Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI
  • We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3)
  • For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning)
  • Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them)
The key line is that "divisions are gone" in the third line.

Now, I suspect that I know the reason for this change: the new unified inventory plays merry hell when asked to interface with the corporate hangar divisions system.  In my high-sec manufacturing station, for instance, it takes a full 12 seconds for the station office corp hangar to populate... and I honestly don't have that much in each division.  I can only imagine the pain for truly large corps.  The same pain is applied to POS CHAs which is making life excruciating for those of you living in wormholes.  And then we've had to add the same pain to carriers, Orcas, and the like?

Yeah, I can understand why CCP wants to see it gone.  But of course there's a subset of players that are truly aggravated by this change.  And amusingly, the more veteran players are the ones more likely to be affected this time.  If you don't have a capital ship or an Orca, you're not likely to be affected at all.

So now I'm going to have to buy a bunch of these new "non-compressible containers", fill my carriers and Orcas with them, and re-sort everything.  Needless to say, that will be a logistical annoyance but CCP has a long history of just flat ignoring those.  I suspect it helps that they can probably make whatever they like magically appear wherever they need it.  ;-)

Note the "on ships" in the first line.  That was a late add.  You can imagine the freak-out if CCP pushed this implementation to POS Corporate Hangar Arrays...  Doing something about that is clearly going to have to wait until next spring.  The other funny thing is that this is the fourth change now that has been attached to the "there's no going back" meme.  No matter how much players complain, CCP might tweak this change but they're not going to undo it.

Finally, one interesting bit: ship "fleet hangars" will now be player and NPC-scannable.  That bit is both going to stop a fair bit of booster smuggling and is going to put a lot of cargo runners at a lot more risk.  Incursion-bound Orcas are going to have to be a lot more careful, using the same courier tricks that are currently used by incursion-bound freighters.  And we're likely to see a lot more Orca ganks and fewer players taking advantage of 10-second Orca fits.  Overall, I think it's a net positive but it's sure going to make life interesting for a lot of players come December!

(1) I'd again like to endorse jEveAssets, a fantastic program for finding your stuff wherever you manage to hide it from yourself.  I use it myself and I find it repeatedly invaluable.


  1. I live a wh and I am surprise with delay you are experiencing with corp hangar content display delay.

    My experience about that has been:

    - before the new inventory system, it took lots of time opening a CHA or SMA at a POS
    - just after the release of the new inventory system, the delay become worse, a lot worse.
    - 2 or 3 weeks after the release and some more patches, the delay was almost gone. Opening a CHA or SMA and seing the content is almost instant.

    Also in HS, in station on my indy alt, I don't experience that much delay opening the corp office.

    Have you tried clearing cache?

  2. I hear your pain, though personally I accept more of the benefits than the losses. Nothing like wasting an hour hunting down that one damned module.

    Still have my hopes high for POS that we will reduce from disparate mod-specific hangars to a single corp hangar that can utilize a whole suite of tools. Though my hopes are probably misplaced.

  3. NPCs can already scan corp hangers on ships, so no change to booster smuggling.

    1. I can attest to that, as i bought some cheap non synth boosters in Jita not so long ago, set out in my Orca and got shamefully penalized.

  4. The Orca Corporate Hangar nerf is seriously fucked up. I started to play EVE because of that ship and what one could do with it (as in transporting high value stuff) and built a business around it. I actually had the Orca before I could fly it. Damn, was I a proud owner. Anyways, if this change goes through, I will need to find some way around it, or become bitter not-so-vet. :)

    1. You can still safely transport high value stuff, even without the Orca corp hanger. You just need to do some research, in order to fly smart.

      Fact 1. The ratio of ganking to hauling is ridiculously small. The sheer amount/value of stuff that is hauled through high sec every day is staggering, and ganking doesn't even touch 1% of it.

      Fact 2. Stupid people get ganked. For example, the vast majority of gank victims are flying AFK on AP, in fail-fit ships, when they get ganked. Don't be stupid.

      And, don't write off the Orca - it is still a great hauler, even if only for its ability to transport a rigged ship through high sec.

    2. "You just need to do some research, in order to fly smart."

      You do have a point, the problem is not the change itself, but ones complacency with the status quo and unwillingness to adapt. In evolution that gets you extinct, in EVE, well, blown up.

      Thank you for reminding me.

    3. I agree the biggest impact is having the hangar scannable. No more easy to hide valuables. Of course, there is still the double wrap method but I really liked not having to bother with all that for stuff like valuable implants and mods. I hope they never make the ship array scannable as I still use an Orca to move deadspace fit T3 cruisers around hisec.

    4. It still takes a quite significant number of ships to break even an untanked Orca's tank. Scouting your Orca around with an alt in a shuttle will probably save you from 50-75% of gank attempts, if not more. If the in-gate is full of Tornadoes or destroyers, just don't jump through.

    5. As Jesters says, scouting helps a lot.

      Also, you should always be using WTZ, and never fly AFK nor on AP. Using an alt with a web to get you into warp faster is also a big help.

      And, don't forget that an Orca can fit other modules/rigs besides cargo expanders. A tanked Orca is better than a freighter in pure EHP. WCS are generally considered as fail, but they actually can be useful for a high sec Orca, trying to avoid gank camps. The cloak/MWD trick might work, too (although I haven't tried it yet with an Orca).

      Finally, don't forget to pack those ECM drones.

    6. Another trick is to load up a couple of plastic wraps with a ton of small volume junk, and just carry them around in your cargo hauler, all of the time. This clutters the cargo scan and makes it more difficult for gankers to quickly evaluate whether or not you are worth ganking.

      For example, you can create a couple hundred 1-run small ammo BPCs, create a courier contract, accept it with an alt, fail it, and put the plastic wrap in your hauler. There are also plenty of small volume, relatively worthless items which you can also use to increase the clutter.

    7. The clutter trick suggested by Anon1452 does work.

      I've been using it for a year now, out of Jita and through the Uedama pipe, and have never been ganked, despite being regularly scanned.

      The more clutter, the better. I add a new plastic wrap every now and then - I think I'm pushing a few thousand items by now.

  5. There needs to be a way to carry things in a ship and guarantee that if the ship pops, the goods pop too. After all, warships get scuttled and modern combat ones have dead man switches to make sure they scuttle and are unusable if they are going to be taken. Seriously, in this technologically advanced society there isn't a way to make sure that you don't turn over supplies and such to your enemies? Yeah right.

    I call bullshit no matter if you can go back or not.

    1. Jettison the cargo, then shoot it yourself before you die. Jettisoned cargo containers are remarkably fragile.

    2. No guns on an Orca.

      You'd have to use drones or smartbombs.

  6. If the players can scan the Orca hangar, does it mean the contents drop too? Because if not, no one will gank them anyway.

    1. See the last bullet. Loot in fleet hangars will have a 50% chance per item of dropping, just like any other cargo or fitted mod.

  7. I cant really justify whining about this, since it should have been there to begin with

    my poor orca....RIP smuggling boat of awesomeness

    now what are we poor wormholers left to do, a fleet of blockade runners?

    this is so impractical....every time we export any medium to large haul of PI or MNR/blue loot we expose ourselves to some serious ganking
    since those hauls are easy to gather but very hard to run safely like this

  8. "...and fewer players taking advantage of 10-second Orca fits."

    I'm not following the line of reasoning behind this statement. Can someone please explain ?

    1. It's just my suspicion that we'll be seeing less of them and more players either tanking their Orcas more or leaving them at home and going with some other ship type. See @Anon0418's comment as an example.

    2. You can get a well-tanked orca up to over 200k EHP, which is more than a freighter but not that much more. As a current fast-warping Orca user, I can say that this change will be a major headache for me. No more will I be able to casually put a stack of PLEXes and capital BPOs into the Orca and just move them. I'll have to exploit the double-wrap bug like everyone else or move things in smaller batches.

  9. Jester, the clutter trick won't work anymore for the organized ganker. There are now a few websites that you can copy and paste the cargo scans into and hit a button to quickly calculate the cargo value. Here is one of them: http://sudorandom.com/cargoscanner

    There are other web sites out there that do the same thing. They are extremely handy. Double wrapping is going to be the only way to prevent scans now.


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