Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Wednesday, January 30, 2013

Fit of the Week: Gank Redeemer

Every month or two, my income (usually from manufacturing) is sufficient that I can afford to buy "something nice."  The definition of "something nice" varies quite a bit each time I do this, but it's usually something in the billion ISK range or so.  Last May when I was doing incursions, I decided to buy a Redeemer to play around with bridging two of my PvP accounts on people, either in bomber/recon, or recon/recon.  It was amusing and I got kills against the old Babylon5.. alliance and the other old carebear residents of Fountain, but I was quite annoyed with the range limitation.  So I eventually filed the ship away as money mostly wasted, and forgot about it... until last week of course.

Now I'm looking forward to flying it again a bit.  I'm settling in on a final fit, but it's almost certainly going to be for small gang Blops work and look something like this...

[Redeemer, Gank]
Damage Control II
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Shadow Serpentis 100MN Microwarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Ammatar Navy Heavy Energy Neutralizer
Improved 'Guise' Cloaking Device II

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Energy Burst Aerator II

Ogre II x5


The Covert Jump Portal Generator takes the place of the heavy neut if I'm the one providing the bridge.  First, the bad news: Redeemers have ridiculously poor CPU even for an Amarr ship.  That means to fit them you have to make lots of little compromises and at least one or two big compromises.  That includes the A-Type ANPs which are expensive but use zero CPU.  And you're going to need every scrap of CPU you can get.  That also explains the faction Heat Sinks and some of the other gear including the specialized cloak: all of them are measures to swing your limited CPU to things that need it.

You're not nearly as constrained on grid and since I consider Black Ops ships to be hit and run raiders, I rigged mine with a T2 Energy Burst for additional DPS.  That, the Mega Pulses, the faction Heat Sinks and the drones means this ship can produce well in excess of a thousand DPS before overheating, with good cap endurance.  The Heavy Neut is for shutting down the active tank of the target, which is hopefully a couple of ratting Tengus, a mining op, or something similar.  That also explains the web: in concert with a fleet of other bombers, recons, and black ops, the amount of tackle on the field should be substantial.  If there's no need for the web because your fleet has more tackle than it needs, I'd probably wedge a Tracking Computer there.

And if you're lucky, the neut is being used in concert with several others to take down a ratting carrier's self-rep.  ;-)

Tank is 99k before fleet bonuses, which is quite thin for an Amarr battleship.  The main reason are the very poor resists, which are about equal to an Apocalypse.  Black ops do not get the higher resists that other T2 ships do.  ANPs provide good basic (zero CPU) resists supplemented by a DC; dead-space versions are the equivalent or better of faction EANMs depending on the class you choose.  Buffer is a single Trimark and two T2 plates.  These new plates are terrific on battleship-class ships: they provide significant extra armor HP and don't degrade speed significantly.

Mid slots are basic, with the faction point for extra range and the faction MWD to somewhat reduce the ship's cap penalty.  If you go with double Trimark on yours instead of using the T2 Burst or are bridging, you'll be able to fit a Heavy Cap Booster instead of the Medium one I'm using.  For drones, I'm torn between Ogres, Berserkers, and Gardes.  The Ogres provide the best DPS and in many cases you'll be immediately jumping on someone within a few kilometers so right now I'm leaning Ogres.  They're terribly slow, though.  I might tweak a bit there.

All in all, the Redeemer is the best of the blops: hard-hitting with a good tank and useful utility.  But "best" in this case doesn't mean "good" yet.  It's thin-skinned and the compromises that you have to make to fit it make the Redeemer a very expensive toy, hard to fly and painful to lose.

Still, I've had this expensive toy for about eight months now.  Time to do something fun with it.  Bridge is up, go go go!


All Fits of the Week are intended as general guidelines only.  You may not have the skills needed for this exact fit.  If you do not, feel free to adjust the fit to suit to meet your skills, including using meta 3 guns and "best named" defenses and e-war.  Ships can also be adjusted to use faction or dead-space modules depending on the budget of the pilot flying it.  Each FOTW is intended as a general guide to introduce you to concepts that will help you fit and to fly that particular type of ship more aggressively and well.

10 comments:

  1. If you're not providing the bridge then you're not going at all, because only ships that can fit a covops cloak are allowed to use that bridge in the first place. You can always jump to the cyno yourself, but good god, man, why would you want to do that in a billion isk ship that's not fulfilling its one role in the game (i.e. providing a covops bridge)? These are terrible combat ships, and I'm super happy Fozzie acknowledges that fact and promises more changes to them down the road.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The black ops ships are not mobile bridges, they are ships designed to get their special gang on the field and blap a target. Treating it like a titan doesn't make sense, it's only a billion isk ship, if you really can't stand risking a billion isk ship on a loss than don't buy the damn thing.

      It has a gun bonus and a jump drive, that's all the reason I would need to jump to cyno and press F1.

      Delete
  2. Interesting fit, but if it's so tight on CPU, why use the Serpentis MWD, which uses even more CPU than the Tech II?

    The Domination MWD may be more expensive, but it has even better cap benefits, and it leaves CPU room for a Guristas cloak, which gives roughly the same performance as the storyline cloak at a much smaller price - your total cost is about 20 million more, which is a rounding error on a boat that expensive, and given how much Amarr ships depend on their capacitors...

    ReplyDelete
  3. I started reading this thinking of a retriever instead of a redeemer. I think I am disappointed right now.

    On the other hand I am saving up for a widow right now, although she is going to be a WH closer. (extra 50M tons makes closing holes easier)

    ReplyDelete
  4. Tom, why not use an Orca for that? Cost will be about the same, and the Orca is much heavier.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 'cause I use both.
      I am closing C2 holes so about 2000m ton. orca prop + blackops + mod is 1000M. if hole goes stage 2 you know BLOP + prop then Orca + prop will close it. If not stage 2 then 2x Orca + prop will kill.

      Delete
  5. I am no longer a null sec guy, but I firmly believe that black ops need some serious buffing. Any ship that costs 3-4 times more than its T1 counterpart (OK, there is no T1 counterpart) should have a better tank than its T1 cousin.

    Black OP tanks of 125 K should be easily achieved.
    I don't think I have ever seen a BLOPS fit that was less than 1 billion including hull, and this one is no exception. A ship that expensive and is considered a BS should not be a glass cannon.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I fit a dual medium cap booster setup on this ship with navy 800's. It a gank and gtfo fit in case your counter dropped. And yes I have lost one to a swarm of rifters coming though a bridge on a trap setup which was not funny at all. I have one toon in a redeemer and one in a panther which I prefer over the redeemer. More maneuverable, more tank, and much more expensive. If you thought CPU was low on the redeemer, the panther is way harder to fit, but it will fit faction nicely and have about 1100 dps, 100k tank and move about 2100fps cloaked pulsing the mwd and cloaking giving you a better cloak and hide than the plated redeemer can. It can also fit dual neuts

    ReplyDelete
  7. Pretty standard fit for a 'Deemer. I personally use a processor overclocking rig in place of the trimark rig. If someone is going to kill your BLOP, a trimark rig isn't going to save you 97/100 times and without logi your not sticking around anyways. With this I use IN EANMs in place of the A-Types and Domi MWD for cap purposes. I've also found that most targets try to run on a drop (surprising I know) and by the time you lock them they are usually outside web range (you do have a rapier and arazu along, right?). I use my mids for a targeting comp, heavy cap booster (GTFO only) and either a sebo or conjunctive radar. I would advise berserkers or even gardes over ogres since the travel time means most targets are dead before ogres can even apply DPS. Regardless, these are definitly all in the realm of 'technique' and you will have fun with this ship regardless. On a side note, ASB Sin's and Panthers are better for the solo gank while Deemers make a better fleet gank ship IMO.

    ReplyDelete
  8. You really need a MJD not to die horribly in a combat blops now. Thankfully the Redeemer can fit both a MWD and MJD without gimping it's combat fit. Remember you wont' be using this solo, so drop your point / web, put a sensor booster and MJD on it with a heavy cap booster, and go to town with your hotdrop gangs.

    ReplyDelete

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