Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Friday, February 8, 2013

Specialization is for insects

The latest dev-blog from the ship re-balancing team is simultaneously surprising and routine.

Let's start with the routine bit.  In terms of the information presented, there's actually almost nothing new here that we didn't know from CCP Ytterbium's dev-blog of November 2012.  In that one, in the section titled "I love it when a plan comes together", we see the skeleton of the plan to break the Battlecruisers and Destroyers skills into racial variants, and the intent to reshape what is needed to fly the upper echelon ships such as battleships and capital ships.  The only thing this new dev-blog does is put some flesh on the bones written about in November.  In actual fact, there's very little that's actually new here.

When I read about these changes in November, it struck me as likely that the changes would be implemented in Retribution 1.1 this month and so I recommended that players get busy training as many racial frigate and cruiser skills as they could to level III before this change was implemented.  I redouble that recommendation today: this is quite frankly another "EVE IQ test".  If you have Battlecruisers V trained and you do not train all four racial cruiser skills to level III, you flunk it.  If you have Destroyers V and you do not train all four racial frigate skills to level III, you flunk it.

Don't make excuses.  Get busy.  Get it done.  If you don't do it, you're leaving up to six million skill points on the table.  Sooner or later, I guarantee you will wish you had those skill points.  Even if for no other reason than to make the character you're selling more valuable to its next owner.

All that said, let's look at the surprising bits, and there are three major ones.  The first hits more generalist characters.  The second hits more specialized characters.  The third is just interesting, at least to me.

If you have Battlecruisers V and/or Destroyers V and you follow my advice above, you are going to gain as much as six million additional skill points.  If you've been busily training your Sensor Compensation skills, the Micro Jump Drive skill, and some of the other new skills that have been added to the game, that's going to add even more SP.  Granted, this makes the character more broadly skilled, more valuable, and more nerf-proof.

But it also makes those characters more expensive to lose pods for.

If you are training a generalist sort of character like Ripard, we're quickly going to reach the point where such a character could easily have 100 million SP, never train any too-specialized skill to level V (Medium Autocannon Specialization V, anyone?), and yet not have a single skill point devoted to capital ships.  That's where Ripard's going to be this summer and it's going to cost me 30 million ISK or more every time Ripard gets podded as a result.  Fortunately for me, I don't get podded very often but part of that is because I take deliberate steps not to be: I tend to fly faster, skirmishy ships that don't spend a lot of time in bubbles; the ships I fly tend to be tankier and harder to kill, and I rarely fly ships that can be popped in a single volley like T1 frigs.

This change is going to subtly create an incentive for other experienced pilots to fly in the same way and perhaps in the process to become even more risk-averse and less likely to fly throw-away ships, something the game hardly needs.  Even generalist pilots with lower SP will start to feel the pinch when every podding costs 10 or 15 million ISK.  That amount starts adding up!  It's a perhaps unintended side effect of all of these new skills that CCP is adding.

But players are always richer than you expect, amirite?  ;-)  We'll see how this plays out.

The second bit that surprises me is how CCP is subtly encouraging EVE players not to be generalists.  Quite the opposite, in fact: we're being subtly incentivized to be specialists instead.

This one occurs to me because one of my PvP characters is a "big ship" specialist, and in fact until recently was a "big Amarr ship" specialist: battleships and the Revelation, with a side business in Amarr HACs and the Devoter Heavy Interdictor.  His skills in smaller platforms and non-Amarr platforms were more limited or non-existent.  Yet he was still forced to train Assault Ships (which he never flies) to train Heavy Assault Ships (which he does).  For newer players coming up, these requirements are being relaxed or removed entirely, but replaced with other skills.  More on that in a moment.

A similar thing hits for heavy ship specialists.  As I learned how poor a dread the Revelation is when compared with the mighty Moros, suddenly I had to train my Amarr heavy ship specialist to be a Gallente heavy ship specialist as well.  That necessitated training him into Gallente Battleship V over a 40-day period even though the character has literally never sat in a Gallente Battleship of any type and may never do so.  This requirement is also being relaxed or removed, and character specializing in heavier platforms will no longer be forced to train high levels of skills in ships they may not want or need.

The real question that goes unanswered in the dev-blog: will CCP be putting their money where their mouth is where this policy is concerned?  I also had to train Large Hybrid Turret V even though this character has never fired a large hybrid gun.  But he needed it for capital hybrid turrets.  Will the minimum requirement for these largest guns also be reduced to Level III?  The dev-blog doesn't say.

Net result: a lot more pilots that are capable of flying capital ships much earlier in their careers.  This may result in inflation in capital ship costs due to more frequent purchases and losses.  We'll see about that one, too.

Most surprising at all on this front (at least to me), the elitism of the highest end industrial ships (notably the Iteron Mark V) is also being removed and as far as I can see, anyone with Gallente Industrial skill at Level I will immediately be able to sit in and use the best hauler in the game.  Granted, a good bit of the "Itty V" mystique comes from the bonuses gained from a high skill level, but certainly not all!  All those low slots play their part.  All of us are going to have to reshuffle our expectations about which haulers are going to be best to use and the Amarr and Caldari ones in particular won't be coming out on top when that's over!

According to my back-of-the-envelope calculations, in fact, the Itty V with Gallente Industrial I skill will be superior in capacity to any other racial hauler flown with racial industrial skill at Level V...

Most amusing of all, a few hours after these changes drop, Ripard will be able to fly an Orca even though he has no mining skills whatsoever.  Shut up.  It's a useful ship.  ;-)

Finally, the bit that may be interesting only to me.  A lot of weight is put in this dev-blog to the relationship between a brand new player with no skills at all and the time it will take to get into each class of ship.  In fact, look at all those little graphics closely and you'll find that the number of days into each ship class has either not changed at all or has changed by only a few percent.(1)  Much like ship balancing being far too focused on the total number of slots each ship has, I think the team here is too focused on this arbitrary number of days needed to get into each ship class.

This has resulted in a lot of rather hysterical changes to the skill requirements for certain classes of ships.  The thought process seems to have been "When we take away the need for Logistics IV to fly some types of Command Ships, we need to throw other skills in to make up that time difference before new players can sit in them.  Which skills should we throw in?"  This results in the rather hysterical requirement that one must train Siege Warfare V in order to fly the Damnation or Armored Warfare V to fly the Vulture.

I'll grant you, I jumped straight to the edge case on this one, but other higher-end ships show similar clever little adjustments with a similar lack of logic.  For instance, to adjust for the loss of the 40 days needed to train racial battleship V, one must now train Jump Fuel Conservation IV and Jump Drive Calibration III to even sit in a carrier.  These were considered pre-reqs for a serious carrier pilot, of course, but one gets the impression that these skills and these levels were chosen because of the number of days they take to train rather than any logic underlying the needs of capital ship pilots.  Else why aren't the same or similar requirements put on dread or titan pilots?  Don't they need JFC and JDC too?

It does make me wonder if a few years down the line, another ship balancing team might come along and say "Guys, we decided that having all these weird skills and requirements to sit in the ship were a little strange, so we've decided to change them..."  Guess we'll see.  ;-)

In the aggregate, though?  The changes in this dev-blog are, overall, good changes.  They make the various skill trees more logical and easier for new players to understand.  And reducing the complexity of the game -- particularly the early game -- is always to be desired.  But I still can't help but think about the plight of brand new players to the game that join medium or large null-sec alliances.  Nothing in this dev-blog is going to make FOTMs disappear, which means that a lot of new players out there are going to be sentenced to training four racial BC skills to high levels...


(1) The Orca is the major exception.

49 comments:

  1. "Most amusing of all, a few hours after these changes drop, Ripard will be able to fly an Orca even though he has no mining skills whatsoever. "

    So you trained that charisma based Mining Foreman skill to level V? What for? :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I reset Ripard's attributes for training Leadership skills for a year. Since I had a year, after I trained the other leadership skills, I trained Mining Foreman to V and the specialty skill to IV.

      Haven't had the opportunity to use them, though. ;-)

      Delete
  2. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Gets interesting with the Iteron V for gal indu I. Your math is right of cause but we all still have to wait until the re-balance team has hit the industrial class. Mark V was one of the first ships I maxed out and I was proud about it. But since there are freighters (even able to haul from belts) it's more than common to see racial industrials at V.

    Concerning the Skills added to the ships, yes some might be miss placed or set too high. Carrier skill would work with JDC and JFC 1. Or only need JDO V, would have close effect. But in that case any jump able Cap ship should have JDO as requirement.

    Commandships and the basic leadership skills? Totally fine for me. The absolution pilot does not have to use siege links there for he doesn't need the siege warfare specialist but if he gets his but placed in a command ship I expect that he at least gives default bonus at max on the field he's not using links for.
    Remember we are talking about the BASIC version of the skills not the link specialist version.

    If you want a tiny little booster ship not maxed out on this skills you have the generalist called Battlecruiser to go for.

    ReplyDelete
  4. You missed the big one, the removal of racial frigate from Rookie ships.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I presume this is aimed at the pirate noob ships.

      Delete
    2. This will also open the door for getting a racial noob ship matched to the station or region, rather than to your character. Didn't that just come up recently around here?

      Delete
    3. A quite likely explanation, yeah.

      Delete
  5. There's one other thing that a medium-skilled character can do which will help leapfrog over others.

    If you've just finished Battlecruisers V and you've got the cruiser skills up to III? Get Spaceship Command V, Leadership V and Warfare Link Specialist IV. Then get at least one level of Command Ships before the skill change.

    Even if you don't have any of the other prerequisites to fly the actual hulls. Even if you can't fit a single gang link. Even if you don't have the skills to provide the slightest squad boosts.

    Do that, and you'll be able to step into any command ship the moment the patch goes live.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why can't you train those skills after the update?

      Delete
    2. because the command ship skill will then be tied to the all V leadership basics like Siege warfare and armor warfare.

      After the patch you will see red crosses in your skill as you don't match those requirements but since you already have the skill you can sit in the command ship.
      Currently you can't because the need logistics or other stuff to sit in it.

      Delete
  6. I'm interested if that "if you could fly before, you'll be able afterwards" policy will be true to the T2 BCs? As the new prereqs for the Command Ships skill are all the Warfare Vs, will I be able to fly my Vulture with only the Siege Warfare at V? Since I already have the Command Ships skill trained, but not all of their "new" prereqs.
    Other than that, I can't wait for the changes. :-)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As far as I can tell, when you try to sit in a ship, the game is only going to check the top primary and secondary skill, not any of the ones underneath it. For existing Command Ship pilots, that will settle the issue.

      For people training up to those skills that can't fly them already, I suspect that you won't be able to inject the Command Ships skill book until after you've trained the four Warfare skills to level V.

      We'll know after they make the change and we see the pre-reqs for the Command Ship skill.

      Delete
    2. When I first read the blog I thought I was going to get booted out of my Provedence since I don'thave advanced spaceship commnd trained to V ( 17 extra days of training I believe ) but Yitterbium posted you would be able to sit in it. NowI'mjustgoing to have to make sure my clone's up to date so I never lose the Amarr Frieghter skill I trained to III & don't reallyseeneed for trainning further

      Delete
    3. Yes, and it has been answered in the dev-blog as well as by devs in the thread (because so many people lack reading comprehension) over and over again.

      The other prereq skills you mention only apply to injecting the skill. For actually flying the ship, they do not matter.

      Delete
    4. The game currently works like that.

      That's why you can occasionally see things like a Cap pilot with Racial BS4 or a Super pilot with Fighters 4, FBs any.

      Losing a pre-requisite for training a skill doesn't prevent you from using that skill. (Similar thing happened with the introduction of the Venture, IIRC.)

      Delete
  7. "This change is going to subtly create an incentive for other experienced pilots to fly in the same way and perhaps in the process to become even more risk-averse and less likely to fly throw-away ships"

    the first thing i was told when i started eve on 08 was NEVER fly anything u are unwilling 2 lose... i always thought of this about my pod as well, not just 4 the ship i was flying/fighting in

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 30M+ pods was one (not the only, however) of the reasons I left nullsec for FW. Haven't looked back since.

      Delete
    2. I shouldnt need an alt to pvp in. Clone costs for my sub capitol main are 30mil before implants. Low risk t1 fleets are not an option as the clone is what costs, not the ship.
      Bettee off in an alt and that is not right

      Delete
    3. That is exactly the point. For example, if losing a pod lost you a PLEX, you would be much more risk adverse. As is, losing 100m is not as bad, but it still makes derping around null sec much more expensive.

      Delete
  8. "All of us are going to have to reshuffle our expectations about which haulers are going to be best to use."

    They're going to tiericide all the haulers. In theory at least a Bestower should be as good as an Iteron when they do so.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I believe what they're planning to do (I think Fozzie mentioned it in the devblog or a forum post) is give the haulers different roles, rather than having all the racial haulers equivalent. So you'll probably get one really tanky one, one nimble small-cargohold one, one big-hold hulk that can't tank or run for shit, and one... something. Maybe one shield-tanky, and one armour-tanky?

      Delete
  9. "For instance, to adjust for the loss of the 40 days needed to train racial battleship V, one must now train Jump Fuel Conservation IV and Jump Drive Calibration III to even sit in a carrier."

    Totally true. Especially for WH inhabitants who never need to jump anywhere those skills are useless. For them it'll just be a different useless skill, jump stuff instead of bs 5 (thought bs 5 might have use for some of the wh ppl who do not sit in their carrier at all times, meaning the new skillreqs are worse for them).

    Training Amarr bs 5 as we speak for amarr carrier, 7 days to go... now not needed anymore -.- guess i'll finish it anyways (for the odd Neut-Abaddon I fly). Question remains... try to get amarr carrier before the changes, or live with for me useless jumping skills?

    Beel.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I feel very "lucky" to actually not be impaired by any of the skill changes (including all the recent skill additions, since they happened to drop in during an Int/Mem remap...which, coincidentially, is ending in 11 days...just in time to get Armor Upgrades skill trained at max SP/hour also...now I just sure hope they stop introducing more Int/Mem skills, since my skill plan's already set for the next 2 fucking years...(this year I'm spending my very last bonus remap from the great bonus remap period)). I already had Dessie and BC 5 before even the first announcement and even though I haven't trained all the T2 ship skills (jump freighter for instance), I have the skill injected. The only good thing is that I'll suddenly be able to fly a freighter, which I had already written off as "never gonna happen", but I will be unable to fly the Rorqual (although I rly just need to take Cap Indy from 2 to 3, so I'll live ;-).

    All of this is due to pure luck...and the fact that I way back when did monstrously long term planning and made sure to focus on getting prereqs to getting as many ship skills as possible...without necessarily training the actual ship skills beyond 1 (hey, training for corp theft ain't bad...this is Eve!). If they keep up the pace of skill changes, I will be horribly screwed in no time.

    I find it slightly odd that the new ship prereqs for all capital ships are the same, solely because Carrier, Supercarrier and Titan are all techincally T1 ships.

    In regards to the template toon they use for benchmarking training times, they DID add a slight bias to Charisma, giving it 19 where the other attributes were 20. But in reality (as I see it...obviously Ripard is the exception) Cha will be far lower on average meaning that the training time for the Command Ship, with the new leadership skill prereqs, has a negative bias. It would have been more fair to give the template toon 20/20/20/20/18 or maybe even 20/20/20/20/17 for those calculations. (personally I never spend any time training the 2 mill I have in various Cha skills and used all of my various bonus SP (namely Learning SP) to beef up these skills withough having to use poor SP/hour or full year remaps...new player will never get anywhere near that opportunity (and much less all the remaps we got back then also (once again I was lucky and got 2 bonus remaps from the Learning skill removal, and have spent one per year, effectively giving my ½ year remaps...which is FAR easier to plan with)).

    I also fly with 2 +5s at all times (almost), so I've overtaken all my equally aged peers in amount of SP and have an average all time SP/hour at the same level as DrCaymus.

    I've recently gotten myself a new alt. It's for hauling, trading and scouting. I really don't know if I should sneak in the training for Dessie 5/BC 5 for him. It's totally utterly useless for this toon's purpose and it will take 2 months away from training him to be usefull in his actual purpose...but it's one of the once-in-a-lifetimes, so I rly don't know...

    When you get CSMd, I'd like to suggest you take it up to review the 1 year remap period. 1 year is an insanely long time...especially when CCP makes gamechangers 2-3 times a year.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Oh, and for what it's worth, according to Fozzie, the expense of medical clones is definitely on CCP's radar.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2583526#post2583526

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It should be. The expense of medical clones serves no other in-game purpose except to discourage players from engaging in against-the-odds PVP.

      One of the reasons why high sec players are reluctant to visit low/null sec for casual PVP is the replacement cost of medical clones.

      Delete
  12. The new skill pre-requisites make a lot of sense. Jump Drive Cal IV is not 'recommended' for a 'serious' carrier pilot. It is REQUIRED for ANY capital pilot, and JDC V is very strongly encouraged for non-carrier cap pilots. And yet I have personally met two carrier owners who not only did not have Jump Drive Calibration IV, but did not even know that the skill existed.

    Similarly, command ships are expected to provide fleet bonuses, have the basic boosting skills maxed out, and should be able to fit a mindlink as well. The Siege/Armor Warfare requirement makes much more sense than the Logistics requirement for the hull. The Siege/Armor mixup is probably just due to a typo.

    In short, you're well of the mark when complaining about the change in required skills. If anything, CCP has made the system make much more sense, since the new requirements directly benefit the pilot flying the ship.

    This is also a substantial benefit for new players, who will now be able to get into larger hulls faster, or chose to specialize more quickly, without reducing the skills required to fly the ship well. The actual time required to get into almost all ship hulls is being substantially reduced, when you realize that most of the new required skills are actually core support skills without which a player has no business flying the hull, rather than random skills that a player might neither need nor want for any practical purpose.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What do I need frigging JDC for in a wh?

      Delete
  13. You imply that the skill changes might be implemented in Retribution 1.1. But I believe that it has been mentioned a couple of times lately that they will postpone the skill changes to the summer expansion. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be trained, but there's no rush to do so. :)

    ReplyDelete
  14. "According to my back-of-the-envelope calculations, in fact, the Itty V with Gallente Industrial I skill will be superior in capacity to any other racial hauler flown with racial industrial skill at Level V..."

    It has been this way for years, which is why Gallente has long been the favorite of the dedicated hauler, and why the Obelisk happens to be the most popular freighter. The Amarr, on the other hand, have the worst indies....

    I expect that Fozzie will be addressing this point, when the industrials get balanced.

    First, we'll probably see some new haulers for Caldari, Minmatar, and Amarr, so that all of the races have 5 T1 industrials, like Gallente.

    Second, I would not be surprised to see industrials get the same treatment as mining ships - ie. we'll see specific industrials optimized for tank, combat, or cargo hauling - maybe even one specialized for running gate camps.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yep, but read the full quote: even someone with Minmatar Industrial V is going to be better off training ONE level of Gallente Industrial and trading in all their Mammoths for Itty Vs.

      The only way to balance that is either to nerf the Itty V (which I don't like) or buff the others. He'll almost certainly have to do that, and it will be along while before that team gets to industrial re-balancing. And no, I think we'll see the number of industrials per race *reduced* to three, not increased to five.

      Your idea of roles for industrial ships is extremely intriguing, though!

      Delete
    2. Has an entire ship class ever been removed from the game?

      I mean, the most sensible thing would be to eliminate the Iteron Mark II and IV (you need to keep the Mark I and Mark III because those are the base hulls for the Viator and the Occator, and I bet that the majority of Iterons actually flying out there are Mark Vs), but what happens to hulls that are deleted from the game? Do they get refined down to minerals? Become collectors' items?

      Delete
    3. I doubt that the Itty V will be nerfed. It is already well-balanced for the role as a sub-freighter hauler.

      It is the other haulers which are not so well-balanced and I expect we'll see them get buffed, using the Itty V as the baseline for the maximum cargo T1 hauler.

      I also doubt that CCP will reduce the number of haulers per race to 3. Since Gallente is the most popular hauler race, there are vast numbers of Iterons of every flavor, incl. the useless Iteron II, in the database - not to mention ship BPOs and BPCs. CCP would need to come up with some sort of plan to deal with removing/converting the flavors (made more difficult by the existence of special edition Iteron IVs) - which would be much more work (and likely incite unnecessary player rage) than increasing the number of T1 haulers for the other races to 5 flavors (which would only require adding 8 new ships).

      Delete
  15. Seriously, you think that 6M SP are going to increase the cost of your clone so much that it's going to be a problem? You're talking as if the clones before were for free and now they're costing a helluvah of ISK. For some people, as long as the clone has a range of SP greater than 6M, they aren't even going to see an increase in cost at all. People isn't going to die more than before just because their clones have a higher cost. I would be surprised if this has a cost higher than 10 or 15M of isk per month for anybody in eve, and those are the ones who can afford throwing away billions in ships anyway.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm talking in the aggregate. There have been more new skills added to the game this year than the previous two or three years combined, I believe. And there's every reason to believe that more are coming.

      Delete
  16. I noted the thing you mentioned about capitals as soon as I read it, It made me scratch my head a bit. If we're going down the route of the requisit support skills being in the hull's skill tree, why isn't logi v in there? or tactical logistics reconfiguration? or advanced drone interfacing? or fighters v (theres drone interfacing v, but they didn't go far enough)? I understand the why they're making these changes, but the how of how they're going about them doesn't make as much sense at times.

    meh. not impressed, or suprised.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I'm pretty happy with these changes, if only because I got all four racial frigs, all four racial cruisers, battlecruiser and destroyer V, and a lot of t2 shit trained up ages ago.

    I also trained Interceptors so I could get Dictors but apparently that won't be necessary soon

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, obviously I'm *personally* happy with them too.

      Delete
  18. I cant get over the fact that in their quest to make it easier for newer players to enjoy the game CCP is giving the finger to older pilots. Maybe CCP is just banking on the fact that if you've been playing for 3, 4, 5, or more years you're never gonna stop playing so it doesnt matter what they do.

    I, and several of my friends, are rather pissed off about the fact that they spent all that time training the pre-reqs for capital ships for instance, and now CCP is handing out the ability to fly caps like candy (yea I know you still need all the pre-reqs not listed to fly it effectively, doesn't change the impression though).

    Yes, most of the changes CCP has made have benefited the game greatly. But I cant shake the idea that older pilots are continuously being over looked whenever CCP comes up with fixes or new content to EVE.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Excuse me, old pilots being overlooked? Do you prefer a worse system just because otherwise somebody else would have it easier than you? That's a sad attitude to have.

      Now tell me how easy will it be to train freigthers.

      Delete
  19. I never got that argument about med-clone costs. Yes, they should maybe change that.

    But VERY rarely does a high-SP character fly without implants worth quite a bit more than his clone.

    So podding is expensive anyway, it's just another 20% surcharge. (also: ISK-sink, which I approve of).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've got a 100M+ SP toon, and I don't PVP with expensive implants.

      I like to fly smaller ships, in against-the-odds fights, where the chances of getting podded are relatively high. Medical clone replacement costs are higher than my ship replacement costs.

      The medical clone costs really serve no purpose except to discourage players from engaging in PVP, whenever the chances of getting podded are high. This is not a good mechanic, for a PVP game.

      Delete
  20. How does training the micro jump drive and sensor comp skills mean a bigger reimbursement?

    ReplyDelete
  21. I came here expecting the full Heinlein quote. Proper context is proper -- you disappoint me, Jester. ;-)

    In all srsness, though, "specialization is for insects", AND EVE players. After all, a guy needs his mining/refining toon, hauling toon, research/production toon, small ship PvP toon, big ship PvP toon, and capital toon. Hell that's 2 accounts assuming you use all 3 slots in each account! Not to mention that it simply won't do that you can only train 1 toon's skills per account, so that's actually 6 accounts!

    lol CCP you clever devils you. ;-)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What do you 'need' the mining refining and the productions toons exactly? And I would say any 2 years old char can PvP in any size of ship. That's 2 chars at most.

      Delete
    2. After you've bought every ship and every shiny, what else is there to buy in the game with billions of ISK, except more accounts?

      PLEX prices have been dropping precipitously this month, dipping below 500M, in many regions. No reason for anyone not to have at least one PLEX-funded alt account.

      Delete
  22. By the way, I hate that Heinlein quote.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." -- another Heinlein quote that most EVE players would abhor. ;-)

      Delete
  23. What I really hate about adding new skills in this piecemeal fashion is the fact that you have to remap your attributes to get maximum SP training efficiency. And, since you only get one remap per year (no X-mas remap, bleh), it can quickly become frustrating to do any sort of long term skill planning.

    Why doesn't CCP add the ability to purchase remaps in-game?

    ReplyDelete