Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Wednesday, March 27, 2013

Fit of the Week: Old School Golem

Next month is going to be battle cruiser PvP month on the FOTW: I'm going to talk about my favorites among the re-balanced combat battle cruisers the same way I did last year with the cruisers after they were rebalanced.  So I thought I'd end the current string of FOTWs with an old school PvE mission Golem straight outta 2010:

[Golem, Missioner]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas EM Ward Field
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II
Medium 'Arup' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5


First, set aside some ISK to buy this monster.  It's going to put you back some 1.5 billion ISK at current market prices, about 800 million for the ship itself and another 325 for the faction BCSs, 125 million for the XLSB, and the rest in the various other fittings.  It's not a cheap ship, but you get what you pay for and what you're paying for is some of the best PvE DPS around: 1400+ with good skills... and that DPS requires Marauders I, not Marauders V.

Remember how I said you want 1000 "tank plus gank" to do a L4 mission?  The tank on this monster is almost superfluous.  For short range missions, use the fit above.  For longer-range rats, pull off one of the SBAs and fit a T2 afterburner and go to town.  If you do have a good level of Marauders skill, Rage torpedoes of the needed type for the missions you're doing will pay off big dividends, particularly rigged for attacking smaller targets as this one is (some people like double Rigor rigs instead).  Those rigs, your Target Painter, and a high Guided Missile Precision skill will ensure that even cruisers feel the full wrath of the torps.  You can fit a fourth faction BCS if you care to, but it doesn't really add very much to your DPS and makes you more gank-worthy, so I wouldn't bother.  Your drones are out there strictly for clean up.

As long as CCP gave this thing seven mids, you may as well fit a tank.  The faction EM Ward helps with the CPU problem caused by the T2 torpedo launchers.  The rest will give you nearly a 1400 DPS omni-tank.  You can tank for the specific rats if you must, but it is unlikely to be necessary.  You only have about 90 seconds of cap endurance on the shield booster, but that should be more than sufficient if you pulse it carefully and only when needed.  If you're concerned about cap, pull off the tractor and salvager and replace both of them with medium NOSes, then use them on the rats of your choice.

As with all missioning ships, the armor repper is there to provide on-field reps for your drones.  You can fit a tractor and salvager if you like but honestly the day of that kind of fitting has probably passed.  Get a cheap alt in a Noctis and go with the dual NOS route instead, or perhaps a Drone Link Augmentor.

Not much more to say about this boat: it torpedoes missions quite rapidly and as long as you're smart about keeping your hardeners on-line and keep an eye out for gankers, this boat will in due course pay for itself and any number of other ships.  In particular, keep an eye out for Tornadoes and other volley ships because a Golem base tank is none too thick!  Still, Golems are rarely gank targets, and this fit isn't expensive enough to justify a gank for financial reasons.  As long as you fly smart, you'll be fine.  Missioning is unfortunately a boring -- but fairly effective -- way to make ISK in EVE.

And given how popular Marauders were in the last few PvP tournaments, the ability to fly this class of ship might make you very popular with your PvP friends come the new tourney season.  ;-)  Cross-train for Gallente and Minmatar battleships.  Ripard himself starts training Marauders skill in a couple of days...


All Fits of the Week are intended as general guidelines only.  You may not have the skills needed for this exact fit.  If you do not, feel free to adjust the fit to suit to meet your skills, including using meta 3 guns and "best named" defenses and e-war.  Ships can also be adjusted to use faction or dead-space modules depending on the budget of the pilot flying it.  Each FOTW is intended as a general guide to introduce you to concepts that will help you fit and to fly that particular type of ship more aggressively and well.

26 comments:

  1. Oh, goddammit. A DPS-biased Kronos will barely out-damage this, and that's with a 10km optimal.

    The Gallente DPS edge is just razor thin, isn't it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Except blasters hit frigs a lot better than torps do. I love torp dps, but to be honest its pretty shitty against things smaller than a BC, and that's after the guided missile precision change. Just buy yourself a Vargur if your gonna do a marauder or save the isk.

      Delete
  2. I've had more luck losing the second SBA for a second painter and going one or two range rigs myself. But, yeah, solid fit.

    ReplyDelete
  3. the only close range mission (in caldari space) seems to be damsel in distress, maybe some drone missions, in others lots of rats orbit at ~40 km so that that pretty much restricts you to range rigs or spending a lot of time on afterburner
    also with single painter rage torps will probably hit for less than t1 on anything smaller than battleship

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. im pretty sure a golem can throw a javelin torp close to 60km

      Delete
  4. you may not want to be cross training mini and gallente as CCP Fozzie seems to be fixated on making Amarr not only PL's fleet race of choice but also the once a year tourney race of choice.

    See recent TE nerf announcement from Fozzie and the support he is getting from his buds at PL over it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think your tin foil hat is on a little tight.

      Delete
    2. Thing of it is though, TEs are overpowered. I specifically asked him if he was happy with where range scripted TCs are, and he said, yeah, they're fine. Now, TCs may be suboptimal compared to webs, or other midslot ewar, but as it stands now, the only reason to use them over a TE is if you are armor tanking and don't have the slot available. After this change, there will at least be some balance between the two mods.

      For skirmishing, and let's be honest here, that is what everyone is whining about, after this goes through, there might actually be a viable place for active armor skirmish tactics, rather than just putting shield extenders and a warp disrupter on everything.

      Delete
  5. Could you give us a Kronos fit, too?

    ReplyDelete
  6. The Breakfast ClubMarch 28, 2013 at 12:27 AM

    "125 million for the XLASB". You've been had Ripard! Better make that a XLSB ;-)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Whoops! You're absolutely right. Fixed.

      Delete
  7. These days, if you're looking for a Caldari Navy XL booster, it's stupid-silly not to go for the Dread Guristas variant instead. Identical performance at a sixty-percent discount (67m vs. 160m) - that practically pays for one of the faction ballistic controls right there, and makes you a less profitable gank to boot.

    I'm guessing part of the issue may be a reduction in the availability of tags to trade in at the LP stores, after they changed the rats in faction-warfare plexes.

    ReplyDelete
  8. This fitting is not very good, I propose this alternative:

    [Golem, Missioning]
    Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
    Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
    Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
    Ballistic Control System II

    Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
    Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
    Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Shield Boost Amplifier II
    Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
    Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

    Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
    Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
    Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
    Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
    [empty high slot]
    [empty high slot]
    [empty high slot]

    Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
    Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II


    Hobgoblin II x5
    Hammerhead II x5

    Get at first somethings out of the way ... Torp-Golems without range-rigs and, optionally, an AB suck. (Cruise Golems actually suck regardless of fitting =)) Why? Even with this fititng Javelin Torps only reach about 65km range, which is still extremely mediocre, and in fact not enough for quite some missions (seriously, get a gunboat). But at least unlike your fitting above, you won't be stuck for an eternity slowly chasing the 49km orbitters down. And sometimes there are a lot of 49km orbitters.

    (I did actually put together a exhausting proof of this fitting's superiority, but stupid character limit =/)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't disagree with you, but these days, most of the lucrative missions are short range, the shorter the better. The few long range ones are often worth just declining.

      Delete
    2. Even After the Machariel gets nerfed with the TE nerf. Still a better ship for L4s.

      Even after the Vargur gets nerfed with the TE Nerf. Still a better ship for L4s.

      Gun Boats hit frigs, often times insta-popping them, with good piloting. Torps don't, ever.

      My dead-space AB Mach will do the toughest Anoms solo.

      Delete
    3. I don't see any really worthwhile "short-range" missions, at least if one flies against Blood Raiders. The only one that is *mostly* within engagement range oof your Golem is Recon 1/3, while missions like The Blockade, Mining Misappropiation, Dread Pirate Scarlet (at least stage 4) or Gone Berserk are usually fought at 50+ kilometres.

      And additional fun-fact: Serpentis/Blood Raider/Sanshas Nation/Guristas Pirates longrange-BS will actually kite your Golem indefinitely (Orbit 49/50/51km, 140m/sec orbitspeed vs 45.6km torpedo range (w/ Javelin) @ 131 m/sec)

      Delete
    4. Not everyone flies against Blood Raiders. Matter of fact, lots of people don't. ;-)

      Delete
    5. TBH, most other factions are just Blood Raider palette swaps with slightly to frustrating more annoying ewar. And Guritas spamming missiles, but even this is *more or less* cosmetic. Sanshas even have the exactly same stats, just with the relatively harmless NOS being replaced with even more tracking disruption (THERE missile/drone-boats can shine). And the mission-pools aren't really that different between regions (there is even a "guide" to determinate which agents give which missions, but unfortunately for you it's in German ;)) Sure, Serps get their quite awesome Assault, but even there you have to approach the groups before pulling aggro with your Golem fit - Serpentis longrange-bs have the highest orbits of them all. This however get's quickly balanced out with the less-than-awesome Serpentis Extravaganza, the ewar-ridden Blockade and the universally loved Buzzkill. Wo flies against Guristas: Sorry, you failed the IQ test ;)
      The only place where this fitting might work is against Angels, sadly Minmatar are the only race I've never flown lvl4 for. ;)

      Oh, and I did actually proof that my fitting has a better damage application than yours, but I would need like 3 comments for this.

      @ Dannar:

      Even after the Nightmare doesn't really care about the TE nerf. Still a better ship for L4s. ;)

      And who wastes cycles for frigs that don't ewar? =/

      Delete
  9. Can I challenge you on that Ripard? Have you done any missioning with the new AI? It's a drone killer that requires micro-management of your drones with a awkward UI. Even rat battleships insta-lock scout class, and have no problems with killing them when a. small sig and b. non-mwd speeds. I prefer using sentries at long range.

    On slow-boat approach to the next area/mission gate; release a flight of salvage drones. And without any targets, order the entire flight to salvage, makes them auto-salv. (claveat - you have to be the missioneer, if you are assisting someone else in their mission - this order may not work).

    MT

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Battleship rats will never, ever aggro small or medium drones unless the drone actively pulled aggro. This is NPC drone-hate works:

      Elite Frigates and Cruisers target Small Drones and above
      Standard Frigates und Cruisers target Medium Drones and above
      Battleships target Heavy Drones/Sentries and above

      This is not just some observation on my part, CCP themselves said it in this patch notes:
      http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-retribution-1 (Retribution 1.0.9)
      However, my observation back this statement by CCP.
      Oh, and EWAR/remote assistance works wonders against npc drone-hate.

      However, I can also second the absolute awesomeness of Sentries, even on none-droneboats. They have completely replaced medium drones on all my setups.

      Delete
  10. "PvE DPS around: 1400+ with good skills..."

    Sorry if that's a dumb question, but I am unable to get that with EFT. I get 1328 dps (missile 1170, drones 158,4) when using "all level V" skills. So what am I missing?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rage torps. Use them. You'll need fewer volleys which means both fewer torps and less time which will end up saving/making you ISK in the long run.

      Delete
    2. I can confirm the 1170+158 DPS with all V without Imps with Rage Torps.

      Delete
    3. I get 1328 with rage as well... 1427 if you use both sets of drones at once in EFT (oops?).

      Delete
  11. So much overkill that it is frightening....

    I run L4s solo and semi-AFK in a good old stock T1 Domi with T2 modules, which costs 1/10th of your Golem. The Sleeper AI does require a bit more drone management than before, but not much.

    I don't get bothered by mission gankers or ninjas either. Your bling boat is an ideal target for them.

    If you want to run missions faster, then add an alt in another Domi. You'll grind missions faster with two cheap Domi's than with a single pricey Golem.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 1.4b is anything, but it is not bling, especially if you fit 3 hardeners. Considering that the hull costs about 800m ISK, this leaves about 600m ISK in modules, which have have a dropchance of 50%, which results in an average loot drop of 300m. A Gank-Tornado costs about ... 90-100m ISK? Without hardeners, the Golem has about 40k eHP against EMP Ammo, so you will require 3-4 tornadoes to gank this Golem, leading to 270-400 million ISK investment, resulting in a profit ranging from -100 to +30 million ISK before factoring in modules dropped by the ganking ships. So no, this Golem is no good gank-target.

      And you could also always add an Alt to a Golem, and Golem+Domi do missions faster than 2x Domi, even if missile-ships are in my oppinion slightly worse for dual-boying than gun/drone-boats due to their delayed damage. (And the Golem is a very click-intensive ship to start with)

      Delete

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