Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Tuesday, November 19, 2013

CSM8 Status Report: Week twenty-eight

So here we are the day of Rubicon!  Former CSM member Two step was kind enough to extend CSM8 some good wishes even though we had only very little to do with it:
Pretty impressive #csm8, you are the first CSM to have the patch come out before the minutes from the summit about the patch #tweetfleet
Thanks, Two step. Very kind of you.

More seriously, after Freelancer117 much more productively asked directly where the minutes were, CCP Dolan was kind enough to fall on his sword, though also make it clear that the community team has been very very busy, not only with the issues I brought up last week but with CPM/DUST 514 issues as well that I'd forgotten. But he also had this to add which I thought was kind of interesting...
Additionally, the minutes system is one of the oldest CSM systems, and just like I did with the stakeholder process and elections, it is next on my list of things to revamp. The minutes, as they have existed, are responsible for burning out more CSM's than any other activity, because they are a monotonous and lengthy task. I feel that we can try and find a way to preserve what I see as the key value of the minutes (letting the community see how they are being represented by the individual CSM's on various topics) without repeatedly forcing the CSM to create full transcripts of NDA'd meeting only for me to then edit down to fit the confines of what information we will release.

I think that in the past, people have viewed the minutes as some sort of delivery mechanism for hints about upcoming expansion/features. I pretty firmly disagree with that notion. The minutes are a system for review of the CSM, not preview of what CCP is doing.
Right now the minutes are a rather time consuming process for both CCP and the CSM, and I am a huge fan of efficiency. If I can streamline the process to retain all the things that are great about the minutes, and perhaps even find new great things, while cutting out a lot of the negatives and the fluff, then I will be a happy man.

I'll probably be discussing this endeavor as we near the winter summit, as the community in general (as the reader) is also involved in the process and I'm interested to hear your feedback. This was just me talking about for the first time.
Now needless to say while I somewhat agree with this -- in particular, it's definitely not our job to steal CCP's thunder about when they want to announce features. But that said, as a blogger and a CSM follower, I've always been mostly interested in the minutes sessions that dealt with the bigger picture: CCP organization, long-term future plans, EVE's economy, player communications strategies, issues surrounding the new player experience and expanding EVE's player base. And I assure you those sections of the minutes remain intact and of value through Rubicon's release and beyond.

In addition, as Trebor Daehdoow pointed out at our Town Hall meeting on Saturday, there's plenty of value to be had from getting a view of where Rubicon development was in August. This is particularly true for game design watchers, potential future CSM members, and those just plain interested in EVE Online development. And there's one advantage to the minutes not being out yet: a lot of stuff that was under NDA when we started this journey certainly isn't now!

So I do understand Dolan's point, and do look forward to hearing his ideas on this front. But I do also think there is a place for fairly comprehensive notes about what goes on at the summit beyond "CCP shared some ideas with us and we gave feedback."  If you're interested in this topic, please feel free to read the rest of Dolan's posts in the thread and respond. He wrote quite a bit! As for when they will be out:
I'm hoping to have them all out during next week. In the meantime, hopefully nothing catches fire and forces me to put on my fire fighter costume (which is quite fetching, I might add).
I'll keep my fingers crossed for everything except a viewing of the fire fighter costume.

Anyway, onward. As I mentioned already, we held our third Town Hall of the term on Saturday. Thank you one more time to everyone who attended! The recording is now up, courtesy of EVE Radio. My current plan is for the next Town Hall to happen the first or second weekend in January, which will probably correspond to right before the Winter Summit. As we approach that date, I'll announce it using the same process I have been. I feel like we've got a pretty good feel for how to run these things now. 90 minutes felt like the right length, and half pre-submitted questions and half live questions also felt like the right process. I'd also like to find a way to get live voice questions mixed into the process, quite frankly so that those who attend who might want to run for CSM themselves can more publicly put themselves in front of voters. We're also starting to talk a little bit about a video Town Hall if we can work out the process for it.

As you might expect, the CSM internal forums were busy this week with various final dev-blogs detailing the last few features in Odyssey that haven't received them, such as the warp speed changes and the ship and module rebalancing. Giving feedback on these dev-blogs is an important part of the CSM process intended to identify areas of player confusion and prevent another "$1000 pants" situation. ;-) Still, with everything going so smoothly and CCP-to-player communication about Rubicon at a high water mark thanks to the two official sessions held by CCP on this topic, this is a pretty easy process this time around with very little drama.

No meetings this week, and I suspect the devs will be busy with bug reports going into next week. Skype is also remarkably quiet right now. This is the same pattern we saw with Odyssey and I see no reason why it shouldn't repeat itself here. In the meantime, CCP Fozzie has started a thread talking about the future of player anchorables. There will definitely be more of these and if you have ideas about some possibilities, you should join the conversation or upvote the proposals that you like. The CSM has done some chatting about digging through this thread looking for common themes so if there's one that you'd like to see, join the conversation!

That's all for now! I'm looking forward to a smooth deployment of Rubicon in just a few hours!


  1. Any chance of Gevlon's idea of an automated sov-structure-attacking deployable? Would make grinding through regions and trolling sov alliances much easier.

    1. Ah, you mean the "Large Alliance automatically win button?" Since they could easily drop thousands of them in a single night, then attack any part of that at will while defenders are scrambling.

    2. You'll find more support for that the moment POS's became destructible and/or theft prone. If you want to add massive problems and headaches to the game, spread them out evenly - let's get the highsec industrialist group in on it!

  2. Nice troll by TwoStep :) made my day.
    As it stands now, would you run for re-election with the next CSM or do you find it too much of a time sink (for an unpaid volunteer job).

  3. The minutes are the only way the plebeian can judge that their elect are not two faced SOBs.
    So while I personally appreciate the intense effort you and T have put in them I always have a sense of reservation about the motivations for doing so. Paranoid much? Yup. But doesn't that describe every waking moment of EVE existence?
    The real battle in EVE is knowing what you know, collecting the 80% of information you need in the fog of war to make sound strategic decisions.
    The speed of production and trust issues are the reason I was sad to see the independent arbitration services of whoever (was it ACAS? I can't remember) dismissed after Incarna / Monoclegate.
    The bottom line is; you need some neutral independent to suck up all that data and spit put sanitised pellets of information like an overheated autocannon.

    1. They'd still be late, because CCP would have to scour the minutes for NDA material before handing them over.

      And, of course, if you're paranoid, you imagine that the EVE metagame extends deep into CCP itself. Like all the best paranoia, there is a basis for believing that (T20), but the assumption that it's true generally makes the problem impossible to solve.

      I'm interested to see what CCP Dolan does with his redesign of the problem, because it's abundantly clear that the current system is not working well for anyone.

  4. Just listened to to Town Hall Meeting. Thanks for that guys, much appreciated. I listened, learned and inwardly digested as my old mentor used to chant.
    Okay Ripard, here is a request you've probably heard before but I want you and the team to give some thought to, in one word: Linux.
    I don't have the time to faff-and-arse around getting the EVE client running through WINE any-more. The technical challenge and the Linux community’s camaraderie is warm and exciting, but it's been years now and the “no official support” position needs re-visiting.
    Please encourage CCP to officially consult with the Valve SteamOS developers in order to get a working client available for the Steam Machine launch. This is an important business decision for CCP and should not be left to the grass roots.
    Also, secure clients will do much to counter the Not So Audible “Russian agent” claims.
    The end users demand full compliance with the above directive. Player access to these illicit facilities is strictly necessary. None interaction will be considered a violation. Should you fail to comply (pregnant pause) there will be consequences.

  5. "So here we are the day of Rubicon!"

    ...and the super secret and awesome(?) task of Team Super Friends is still super secret


  6. Talking about knowing what is coming soon (tm), apparently CCP CMO Dave Reid talked to the gaming press yesterday/today about the future of EVE Online.

    He spelled out some things more clearly than I've seen them thus far, like "Rubicon begins the process where players can start getting the resources that will allow them to go out and colonise new parts of the universe ...new galaxies that currently don’t exist in terms of playable space." (from http://www.pcgamesn.com/)


    "Rubicon begins a multi-expansion arc that will allow players to begin harvesting, amassing the resources, blueprints, the implants and things that it will take to construct the first Star Gates and then go forth and colonise new galaxies. At some level there is this very intricate balance of power that’s been going on in Nullsec for many years. We’re going to open up a whole new gold rush if you will. There’s going to be a race to build the first Star Gate, and the corporation that do that are going to be the first to plant their ‘flag’ on the hills of new systems if you will." (from http://www.vg247.com/ )

    Cool to read, but makes me wonder (a) if this is the most effective way to communicate things like this to the EVE Online playerbase (I would expect it to be accompanied by some information on the EVE site, a dev blog or something similar) and (b) if this opens up avenues for the CSM (including you :) ) to communicate about some of the more NDA'd information (as I cannot imagine this future path for EVE to be a surprise to the CSM).

  7. I suggested it, I will keep suggesting it, how to fix the minutes thing:


  8. With large alliances (e.g. goons) taking HiSec POCOs, I think we need to take another look at the cost to war dec corps/alliances. Currently, there is a prohibitively large cost to war dec a large alliance, which is necessary in order to attack their POCO. My feeling is that they have enough advantages in terms of number of pilots and organisation, that they don't need this additional barrier.

    So my suggestion is to reset the war dec cost to 50 mil for any corp/alliance, and let the large alliances fight to defend their POCOs if they want to keep them.

    As a CSM member, what is your view on this?

  9. If there was a point to the minutes I feel as though it's long past the time when it could have meant anything.

  10. 2 things immediately come to mind that would improve the turnaround of the summit minutes. First, video them and put the sessions on youtube. Second, end the practice of revealing anything that needs to be under an NDA to the CSM.

    Now about the community team.... didn't people go out of their way earlier this year to emphasize how the EVE and DUST community teams were completely separate entities? Or did I just imagine that?

  11. "...last few features in Odyssey that haven't received them..."


Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.