Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Wednesday, November 27, 2013

Fit of the Week: L4 Mission Paladin

Let's do some Rubicon fits! And since I haven't done a PvE ship in a while, let's talk marauders for a bit. Remember how I said I think they're over-powered for missioning applications? Lesson one starts with this:

[Paladin, Missionary]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II
Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive
Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Bastion Module I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x5
Salvage Drone I x5
Light Armor Maintenance Bot II x5


Let's go over the basics. 1000 DPS to 35-40km. 1250 DPS tank before links. 79% minimum resists before links. Cap-stable before the NOSes. And best of all -- other than the hull cost which is admittedly substantial -- it does it all with 300 million ISK in modules. So you're not even close to gank-worthy; the ship is hardly shiny at all. And if you're even remotely concerned, downshift to a faction armor repper. You won't quite be cap-stable any more in every regimen, but you'll be all but.

Now let's talk specifics. DPS comes off pulse lasers with a 32+19km range with Multifreq and 55+19km range with UV. Those two crystals will be sufficient for most applications though you should carry Scorch and Conflagration as well. Twin faction Heat Sinks are a must but a third faction one is kind of optional: it only adds 10-12 DPS over T2. Dual Tracking Computers have been pretty standard in Amarr ships for years and the Paladin is no exception. Clear away the long range battleships, then flip them over to tracking speed to hit cruisers as they orbit you.

The fit includes three mods to increase cap recharge. With Relic and Data sites dropping an unprecedented amount of T2 salvage, this is a good time to go ahead and spring for T2 rigs on your more expensive ships and the Paladin definitely benefits from the treatment. Cap stability used to be the province of super-rich mission bots that paid through the nose for the privilege but now we proles can have it as well. There's fitting space for up to three heavy NOSes which can be turned on rats. Before NOSes were rebalanced, rats were a good source of cap and from my limited testing so far this appears not to have changed. You're cap-stable without them if you're not going to go after Blood Raider rats, though, if you'd like to fit something else in those highs instead.

Tank starts with the Bastion Module of course, which you should take advantage of more or less instantly after entering the mission. Once in Bastion, a DC and a pair of non-faction EANMs is quite sufficient omni-tank for any mission in the game, though obviously your laser damage will be most effective against missions against Blood Raiders, Sansha, and the like. Self-rep is provided by a dead-space repper which is very cap-efficient, helping with your cap stability.

An MJD is fitted by default, but you can go for a 100MN Afterburner if you like without hurting yourself too badly, or even a MWD. Fitting an MWD will of course eliminate your cap stability but with so much DPS on your side you hardly needed it... For most missions, you should feel free to fit the propulsion mod which best fits the mission profile. Carrying a Mobile Depot in cargo is very much advised! Anchor it somewhere in the center of the system and use it as a refitting point between missions.

Use Hobgoblins to wipe out frigate rats, then pull them in and deploy Salvage Drones to clean up wrecks. A Mobile Tractor unit is also not a bad call. The Paladin's cargo bay is immense and will probably be able to carry off the loot from a given mission (or two, or three) without any trouble at all. Drop your loot in your Mobile Depot and come back for it later.

tl;dr version? L4 mission easy mode. Go get 'em.


All Fits of the Week are intended as general guidelines only.  You may not have the skills needed for this exact fit.  If you do not, feel free to adjust the fit to suit to meet your skills, including using meta 3 guns and "best named" defenses and e-war.  Ships can also be adjusted to use faction or dead-space modules depending on the budget of the pilot flying it.  Each FOTW is intended as a general guide to introduce you to concepts that will help you fit and to fly that particular type of ship more aggressively and well.

28 comments:

  1. Why would you anchor a mobile depot if you have to dock to get a new mission anyway? Warping to the depot is just one more time consuming warp.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Have you ever heard of an alt that most time spend on the same station with your favourite mission agent, and that alt is in fleet with your marauder pilot, and that alt gets new mission and speaks with agent when mission is done? Of course not every mission can be done this way, but I'm sure that now you will figure it out which can be done this way and what is biggest advantage of this kind of missioning.

      Delete
    2. Yep, D@wid got it. It's most efficient for the marauder to warp directly from mission to mission, with an inty providing the warps, collecting any needed item to turn in for the previous mission, and warping the marauder straight to the new mission.

      In a lot of mission hubs, p.much every single mission is handed out in the same system which makes this quite workable.

      Delete
  2. That's a bad fit. Drop DC II for extra faction heat sink, you don't need this amount of tank. MJD is useless in 95% of missions, better get deadspace MWD. There are no gates that would be >60km away, and you can target all rats with your basic targeting range. Drop the NOSes, you don't need any additional cap. Better get tractor beams for extra loot value. For rigs, get T2 Aerator and T1 cap recharge rig, you will have way too much cap here.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. NOSes are for fighting Sanshas/Blood Raiders methinks.

      Delete
  3. Dear Jester, one comment to the fitting you have provided. You don't need T2 rigs for cap stability. If you disable MJD in EFT it is cap stable with T1 rigs. It is a good assumption as you won't be using MJD all the time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't disagree, but this is a good time to go ahead and T2 rig expensive ships while it's cheap to do so. I have no inside information to support this, but my feeling is that T2 rigs will be made to be more expensive than they are now.

      Delete
  4. I use a Vargur for lvl 4's currently. I use the new mobile depot right in the mission. Drop it and i can switch from 800's to 1200's for pulling far off groups closer so i don't have to move my noctis around. So far the rats have not targeted the mobile depot while in a mission.

    ReplyDelete
  5. [Paladin]
    Imperial Navy Heat Sink
    Imperial Navy Heat Sink
    Heat Sink II
    Heat Sink II
    Armor Thermic Hardener II
    Armor EM Hardener II
    Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer

    Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
    Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
    Large Micro Jump Drive
    Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

    Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
    Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
    Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
    Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
    Small Tractor Beam II
    Small Tractor Beam II
    Bastion Module I
    [empty high slot]

    Large Energy Burst Aerator II
    Large Ionic Field Projector II

    Same DPS, better optimal, doesn't require sacrificing slots and ISK to t2 CCCs, cap booster makes use all that room in cargo hold and solves problem with neut rats.

    MJD doesn't take you too far away from your optimal range, mission-specific beats omni-tank on a ship, which works best against "laser" NPCs. For drones or serpentis you can always refit hardeners, angels are no-go by default.

    Can easily switch to pulse lasers and/or mwd depending on mission, tractor beams mean that you don't have to slowboat all the way to container with mission item.

    If you really, really want to make it cap stable then MEDIUM armor rep with mission-specific hardeners and bastion is the way to go - it will only take one cap recharger, one t1 CCC and you can still keep that nice t2 damage rig.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. While using cap boosters is okay in a mission fit, it's ideal to never even have to restock those.

      Delete
  6. Jester's idea of missing involves an alt that collects the missions and provides links. The combat ship is not the mission owner, just the one that does the mission.

    Those of use who don't use two accounts at once for missioning (yes, two accounts is EVE on 'Easy' but then you need twice as much ISK) simply use the opportunity to refit when back at the station.

    I have been using a mobile tractor unit to collect loot and drag wrecks to where the salvage drones can chew on them without wasting time moving to the wrecks. Just remember that you can kill ships far faster than the mobile tractor can pull them in, and that you will still need the local tractors on your marauder to pull them in to keep the salvage drones happy. The extended range on the mobile tractor unit (150 kms) makes it nice for those missions that have wrecks outside of your 48 km tractor range on the marauder.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. re: two accounts. Yep, see above.

      And good points about tractors.

      Delete
  7. What. Is. This?

    You need neither deadspace tank nor any capmods.

    This is how I fly my Paladin:

    [Paladin, Rubicon Lvl4 Cheap]
    Imperial Navy Heat Sink
    Imperial Navy Heat Sink
    Imperial Navy Heat Sink
    Imperial Navy Heat Sink
    Large Armor Repairer II
    Reactive Armor Hardener
    Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

    Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 25
    Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
    Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
    Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

    Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
    Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
    Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
    Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
    Bastion Module I
    Small Tractor Beam II
    Salvager II
    Salvager II

    Large Energy Burst Aerator II
    Large Energy Metastasis Adjuster I

    Hobgoblin II x5
    Hobgoblin II x5
    Salvage Drone I x5

    1040 DPS at 70+47 kilometers. 854 tank versus omni-damage (780ish vs EoM/Guri/Serp, 900ish vs Sansha/Blood), without the RAH shifting any resists. Cap is never an issue, the cap booster be replaced by a target painter (drone aggro IS an problem) once I got around skilling it. My Pala carries 10 MTU in it's cargo, dropping one each stage (except, of course in blitzed mission), with a Noctis/Nereus (I have not quite decided yet) picking up the MTU and loot afterwards. Of course one would need rather good skills to fly this baby effectively, but than again we are talking about the one Marauder who has the damage bonus on the Marauder skill. As implants I recommend cap recharge, cap capacity, tracking, turret cycle time and large energy turret damage.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There are a few missions where beams will help you but on average you'll get much higher average DPS from pulses. The paper DPS in EFT doesn't reflect the lower tracking of beams against close cruisers and BCs. You don't really need 90km range for most missions and for those that do you can carry Tachs and refit off a mobile depot.

      Every missioner should be using short range weapons at this point by default, including missile ships.

      Delete
    2. Pulses don't let me onehit Scarlet Anise, resulting in 5 million extra bounty in this particular mission.

      Pulses don't let me properly engage Gone Berserk/Blockade/Mining Misappropiation with shortrange ammo.

      Blitzing Spies und Zazzmataz is far easier with beams; warp in, lock targets, align out.

      Scorch has a horrid damage profile, 81% EM damage is just terrible against everything that is not Blood Raider/Sansha (standard drone missions are terrible).

      Tracking isn't that bad, with tracking scripts, +5% tracking imp and Gleam beams reach a tracking of 0.04. The only thing I am not able to properly track are close orbiting battleships, namely Mercenary Overlords. But usually, if I am not distracted by some chatroom, they usually die during approach.

      The only missions were Pulses are probably worthwhile is Recon 1/3 and the Damsel, if only for the increased (speak: absolutely ridiculous) damage output. All other missions are not really completion-worthy.

      Delete
    3. You are wrong on this one. Gleam has great tracking and better range than pulses with multifrequency. For anything >30km other than frigates (that's what drones are for), tachs will track perfectly fine and do more DPS. Majority of rats in Amarr space start at 50-60 km, you snipe then while they come to you, no tracking problems whatsoever.

      Delete
  8. hmm looks and feels like eft warrioring. armor version

    4 x tech2 long range (sniper fit)
    1 bastion
    1 tractor II
    1 auto targeter

    2 track comp II (range)
    1 mjd
    1 sensor boost F-90 (range)

    X mission resist II
    Y mission resist II
    large rep (deadspace, or II)
    3 weapon upgrades II
    1 track enh II
    cap relay II

    5 x salv
    5 x hobg II (spares)

    the cap lasts for 50 secs all mods or long enough to shoot out the room
    auto is to be able to lock up as much as possible, since lock time is horrible
    start with frigates and work up through the sizes - waves depending

    enter room and align north or south and jump. order stop, bastion, target and shoot

    because of the gains with bastion mode you an switch to higher damage ammo. (federal antiM for me is about 56/145). drop a mobile tractor and bookmark it. (I put numbers in the BM at the front for each room). when your get to the last couple of rats - drop bastion. align to next room gate (or mission prize) and MDJ back. wash rinse and repeat.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Its overtanked. You can drop a dcu and eanm for a TE and sig amp, and drop the ccc rigs for warp speed. Drop the cap recharger for a cap booster.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Jester, is this your favorite Level IV Marauder?

    ReplyDelete
  11. I may add another small Marauder PSA: If you disconnect while being in bastion mode, the bastion will deactivate, but your ship will not initiate emergance warp, probably resulting in your ship ending in a glorious ball of fire.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Don't worry yourselves about overpowered bastion marauders, CCP will change mission AI so every last PvE fit in the game becomes unusable. The goal will be to force mission runners to learn to use PvP-like fits for missions, so they're better ready for actual PvP which is what everyone should be doing in EVE.

    And yes, that's mostly a joke. But, wait for PvE "iterations" to come...

    ReplyDelete
  13. Ok, probably it might use a bit of further explanation:

    Paladin is the only marauder which has nearly the same DPS with long- and short-range weapons and has the advantage of longest optimal range with it's long-range weapon's short-range/max-damage ammo.

    Pulse lasers indeed have an advantage in close quarters - better tracking means better effective damage. Their disadvantage is that at such range at least some targets will be orbiting, having their highest transversal speed, thereby reducing effective DPS. Also, in order to reach targets farther away pulse Paladin has to use bastion, reducing tactical mobility to nothing. Remember: there are missions with gates as far as 60km away.
    Using pulse laser/MJD/cap stable fit makes little sense, because cap boosted/MWD/pulse fit will have greater mobility that allows both to get closer to distant targets (to get them into optimal range) and further away from targets maneuvering closely (to make them approach your ship and reduce DPS loss to transversal speed). Afterburner is just too slow and I'm used to think of it as an ineffective token effort.

    Tachyon Paladin, while next to useless against closer targets, can utilize power of MJD and Trigonometry! In! Space! has an excellent tactical mobility. That means ability to get within activation range of a gate (at any range below 100km) within two jumps or get within favorable range from desired group of NPCs in one jump. The only issue here is to plan the jump in such manner that targets will remain within 80km from your ship - in that case effective DPS loss will be lower than 10%. Using faction Gamma crystals may help to offset damage loss at ranges between 85 and 100km.

    Point is that you can trade off some of your higher nominal pulse laser DPS for both sustained lower loss of tachyon DPS (next to no loss for transversal speed of targets that have to approach you), better tactical mobility (you can reach farther even without bastion, using MJD aggressively won't get you away from optimal range) and being away from NPCs allows you to tank more of them, which may come handy if you tend to blitz missions.

    Also, there seem to be an issue with bastion and connection loss: running bastion will prevent emergency warp, but won't autorepeat cycle, leaving marauder dead in the water with greatly reduced tank. I lost a Paladin to closed socket on a test server, but attributed it to an unstable tank running out of cap too soon. Now acquaintance of mine lost a cap-stable overtanked-in-bastion Vargur to just a few NPCs. If it's not a bug and working-as-intended feature then it's best to a) avoid using bastion unless absolutely necessary, b) avoid using it close to NPCs you can't tank with bastion inactive, c) avoid marauders altogether.

    tl;dr: in my experience pulse Paladin works best in close quarters while stationary, tachyon Paladin is better in every other situation. For me that means that MJD/tachyon combo is superior - it can get farther faster, without losing too much DPS in process.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Paladin? Mission fit?

    I'm game!

    [Paladin, PVE - DpS]
    Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
    Imperial Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
    Imperial Navy Armor EM Hardener
    Imperial Navy Heat Sink
    Imperial Navy Heat Sink
    Imperial Navy Heat Sink
    Imperial Navy Heat Sink

    Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script
    Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script
    Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
    Imperial Navy Cap Recharger

    Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
    Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
    Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
    Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
    Imperial Navy Heavy Nosferatu
    Imperial Navy Heavy Nosferatu
    Bastion Module I

    Large Energy Burst Aerator II
    Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


    Faction modules are there just because PIMP. (You can squat the Imp Cap rechargers the tracking modules and one/two of the heat sinks for a T2 if you are afraid)

    Does 1.100 DPS with Imp Multi and 877 with Scorch.
    Tanks 1.476 DPS from Blood Raiders and can sustain cap for 19 minutes using everything.

    It does slowboat but hell, it can clear blockades like nothing else!

    ReplyDelete
  15. You forgot to fit tachyons and MWD/AB. MJD is useless in missions.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Boring... let's see your new inty fit, for fast runs behind enemy lines.

    If you haven't fit a pair of HVO II's to your inty and run around Goon space yet, you should... lol.

    ReplyDelete
  17. MJD / MWD / AB is overrated on a Paladin.
    You go in, shoot the bolts in the ground and fire away. Missions with a lot of movements you either decline or refit for an AB. But to carry that around so that you will not have to decline some missions is harmfull.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Fitting MJDs and MWDs are the knee-jerk reaction of PVP players, who thinks they know how to do PVE. ABs are the standard for PVE, since the additional speed with no sig bloom helps mitigate incoming damage and can be fit with cap stability.

    ReplyDelete

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