Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Wednesday, November 6, 2013

Hope and stupidity

And now an important message from Jester's evil twin, Garth.  The opinions of Garth are not the opinions of Jester (unless they are).

It is time for a sermon about my two favorite human weaknesses, stupidity and hope.  Why yes, I do want to talk about KW-I6T.

We play a game where long range missiles are a problem.  We play a game where sentry drones are a problem.  We play a game where volleying someone right off the field is often a problem.  We play a game where titans are a problem.  We play a game where piling two thousand people into the same system is a problem.  And we play a game where not telling CCP we're about to do that is definitely a problem!  So what do we do?  We put all of these problems together into close proximity and then celebrate how hard and how fast we can crash the game!

So that's why in KW- we had Tengus and sentry Domis and sentry Slocats and blap dreads and Maelstroms and titans and enough drones on the field that you couldn't even see the ships through them.  And people are surprised it choked the life out of the server?

That's the stupid part, and it's endearing to me how many idiots become fucking whiny babies when their expectations aren't met.  Whatsamatter, sov blobber?  Server didn't like it when you launched several thousand sentry drones from several hundred carriers and Dominixes?  Couldn't get your titan kill on?  Awwwww... wanna cookie?

Which is the hopeful part, which is just as endearing as the stupidity: several hundred nerds just piled onto a fight that already had a thousand people involved, that didn't have much of anything to do with them and kinda hoped that it'd all work out well... despite quite a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that it wouldn't.  And then they started whining and crying when the game broke!  Hope and stupidity are particularly cute when combined, aren't they?  It's getting to the point where even these people's own alliance leaders are trolling and making fun of them, bringing out the old "uphill, both ways, in the snow" comparison about how times were pre-TiDi.

Know why these experienced alliance leaders are making fun of their own members?  Because making fun of hopeful stupid people is what evil people do, of course.

Garth out!

The preceding has been an important message from Jester's evil twin, Garth.  The management apologizes to any and all whom Garth may have offended.  Garth obviously feels a certain kinship with and sympathy for those who wish to torture hopeful stupid people.

36 comments:

  1. It's November and this is only the 4th Garth post this year. He's been slacking and needs to show up more often.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Garth Needs to have like a weekly spot on here. Seriously everytime I see him on here, even when he insults me, he always makes me cackle at his evilness. You are absolutely right Garth, Sov blobbers complain about Lag and TiDi? You mean that just like a dozen other times where people piled into a system the SERVER COULDN'T HANDLE THEM?!?! I am absolutely fucking SHOCKED. Its like THAT has ever happened before right?

    ReplyDelete
  3. Evil and wisdom, such a delicious combination.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Fortunately, the GMs don't agree with Garth. I petitioned my ship and got it back.

    ReplyDelete
  5. "Oh noes there is nothing to shoot in null... lets pile to that battle and crash the server/node... then whine... then blue even more people so that null will be dead and without action even more. And then hate people in high sec beacause they (CCP) don't want to be easy kills for us... and soo on"

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hope is the thought that maybe - just maybe - CCP can actually deliver on the huge fleet fights they tout over and over again in their marketing spiel. Stupidity is players who, having seen direct evidence that contradicts all the hype, continuing to expect otherwise. Somewhat akin to the definition of insanity, but the comparison is apt. Let's face it, CCP has never slain the lag monster, they just found a way to put a band-aid on a bad situation.

    They should remove drones and missiles from the game. That might buy them another couple of years.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Damn it, we have to get Garth on CSM9 - preferably chairman CSM9. Garth has a not-so-subtle way of telling it like it is. Ripard, you could learn a few things from your evil twin:-)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You're assuming he's not on it now. I like to think that Ripard is more like Garth, whereas Jester's writing simply gets lots of editing and toning down before the publish button is pressed. :P

      Delete
  8. only a few small problems with this post, absolutly nothing about it was "unknown" every null and wh alliance knew this fight was going to happen. Everyone knows about slow cats and drone assist. So here is the multi trillion isk question. IF EVERYONE KNOWS then why the hell doesn't CCP either fix it (and no tidi is not the issue) so the server can handle the load or dump dust and invest in some equipment that can handle it. Seriously if drones are the problem then maybe ccp needs to get rid of them. IF people showing up unexpectedly for a fight is a problem then eve is the wrong platform for CCP to using. Sandbox is supposed to be like reality where the butterfly effect causes a whole lot of content. (in other words the very thing that CCP uses to promote EVE is the very thing they are unable to handle from a hardware stand point).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Removing drones wouldn't solve the problem because the number of player ships in a fight would soon enough expand to consume whatever server resources were freed up by their removal. Faster hardware won't fix the lag problem, either. Large swaths of the code are in Python which is basically a single-threaded environment. You could argue EVE isn't taking full advantage of the hardware it's got now because it's not able to really capitalize on multiple CPU cores. All 'serious people' discount the idea of EVE 2.0 because of :effort:

      Delete
    2. The drone comment was sarcastic. Seriously you design a game and hand it to the players. Didn't anyone ever say 'what if they max this biatch, can our comps handle it?"

      Delete
  9. We play a game that we pay for. CCP promotes the game with events like Asakai. They promise large fleet fights, and emphasize the sandbox. The onus it's a in them to make it work.

    ReplyDelete
  10. While these types of fights make for great stories and may often generate publicity, CCP needs to get their head our of their rear end and do something about the situation with cynos and jump bridges. A couple hundred people blobbing a system is one thing, jumping a couple thousand in from halfway across the universe is ridiculous.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It'll be interesting to see if the cyno jammers coming in Rubicon have any affect on these kinds of battles.

      Delete
  11. preach on brother!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Really???

    Its not the players fault....BY ANY MEANS. These players all came to the fight for guess what....a fight. Not to break the game. Noone came in illegal fits or unsanctioned ships... boggle????

    Your upset... that people are upset.... that a game that celebrates/promotes and advertises as the industries largest PVP battles among all MMOs, cannot handle fights like this?

    I kid you not - IF - EVE could remain stable and even smooth as these battles get bigger and bigger, and the math and mechanics get more complex, the growth and popularity of the game would be amazing, widespread, and long-lasting.

    Missed oppertunity if you ask me CCP. Rather than the thousands of players involved in that fight waking up the next day saying " WOW thatw as awesome"....they are now saying " WOW that was terriable". And quess what those upset players do after that....they tell their friends who do and dont play eve...and as a result...less people log in.

    You think the Eboard @ CCP is going to be "OK" with this performance? I doubt it, I would not be suprised if an appology/explination form CCP comes out from this.

    Then you blame the sentry drones and game mechanics that CCP has introduced and supported for years as part of the problem....Really Rip?

    This is a miserable performance by CCP and a missed oppertunity to "shine like a city upon a hill" in the MMO PVP community.

    People have the right to be upset. The game CCP has greated allows them to have drones/missles and all the other shit you cite. CCP allows them to jump into the system that is already in 10%TiDi.


    Fail CCP
    If its too expensive for CCP to invest in better servers and better people - than start implementing game mechanics that promotes folks not to go in that direction....the problem is....its what SOOO many players want to do in EVE. Fight huge battles with titans......

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is most definitely the player's fault. While some of hte blame lies with poor coding on CCP's part, the players can have huge fights without dogpililing 4,000 people into a system.

      Anyone who complains that its all CCP's fault is deluding themselves, anyone who brings a nuke to a gunfight, then complains that the person they just nuked doesn't want to fight them again is so stupid its a miracle they remember to breath.

      Delete
    2. First, I think your illustration is totally out of context with my point. Again CCP does not limit weapon types or regulate warfare tactics. Anything goes in null sec. That is part of the appeal for 0.0 - huge fights, bubbles, bombs, everything the game has to offer. Bring what you want, knife, gun, nuke. No rules - other than maybe call us in advance when you know a big fight is going to go down?

      Wait what... you don't know when the regional populations start to jack up, especially when you see reinforce timers ticking away ready to expire in that region? Or the night before there was a big fight in the same place?

      Here is my take on it;
      A local restaurant markets itself to the whole world as the best around....unique, services thousands of people at once, in fact services the biggest dinner parties in the world, and has services no other restaurant can offer. Come eat here! - no rules stated, no disclaimers about wait times, nothing - FFA come one come all.

      You take the bait and arrive to see the what its all about. At the door they collect 15$ just to walk into the place....then you get to the host station who tells you its going to be a 12hr wait for dinner for your party of 500.

      So you leave, break up your party of 500, and go to 100 diff resturants for dinner and don't get to share the night with the people you wanted to.

      Had the restaurant knows that more advertisement will bring in more folks, and having already seen thousands of folks leave the place who dont want to wait, dont you think they would do a cost/benefit comparison to invest in a bigger place with more staff to collect all that lost income?

      The problem is the resturant has its regulars who fill the place already to capacity, but yet they keep marketing more and more....? Why is that?

      The problem with CCP and TiDi is that the gamer has already paid to play. Weather you get into the fight or not, just to get in a ship you need to pay your door cost of 15$ - AND - its not rewarding CCP anything but more future customers and more loyal regulars if they do invest the money in TiDi solutions.

      You dont like the TiDi? Go roam-pvp, rat, mine. They already got paid so its not a major concern because its not directly hitting the CCP wallet, especially on paper.

      But mark my words, when CCP is sitting around a table trying to understand why their subs are low and getting lower - this is one of those reasons.





      Delete
  13. "Whatsamatter, sov blobber? Server didn't like it when you launched several thousand sentry drones from several hundred carriers and Dominixes?"

    And why is it that the server doesn't like that? And why is it that people rely on drones so much? The answer to the first question is "because the brain in the box thing is still as tangible as CREST, a year later" and the answer to the second question is "because drone assist is fucking broken". In other words, the answer to both questions is, "It's CCP's fault".

    I mean, really? I remember that in some early release of Q3:Arena the smoke from rocket launchers caused massive framerate drops. So according to Garth, it was the fault of players for using rocket launchers when the game had massive slowdowns? They should've just played Quake without using the RL!

    I can only hope you've played Quake in your life and can see how ridiculous that sounds.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. is the fault of the players because they know this will crash the node. all of them. don't compare the situations. one is a bug, the other one is a mechanic that is supposed to work like that.

      Delete
  14. *waves Garth pennant*
    *straightens Garth fan club t-shirt*

    I'm hopeful that someday you'll see the error of your ways, Jester. You hardly ever let Garth out to play.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I traveled half way across New Eden to get to that battle and all I managed to do was pod some Russian who turned out to be on nominally on our side. And after all that, I still think it was "Mission Accomplished!" Fiascoes are as much a part of EVE Online as anything else. I helped kill the server running KW-I6T, victory is mine! I celebrate this!

    ReplyDelete
  16. Why, if Mad Ani can figure it out, can't CCP figure out what systems have timers coming up and prepare for it? Is it something they are working on or are they working on some other solution to the problem? Actually, ARE they working on a solution?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. CCP is working on a solution, and their first attempt at using the solution is what led to the previous large engagement dying prematurely: CCP made an oops during the process of migrating sol simulators to a different node to allow the system of interest to "own" its own node.

      Give them opportunity to get it working, and make sure to pester CSM about raising the profile of that project.

      Delete
  17. I agree with Garth. Why doesn't this guy show up more often?? EVE is a terribly fun game when you have a chill attitude--and that's compatible with having goals like killing every super in game.
    On the other hand, for me as a non-null PVPer, the only time I've -ever- been interested in null sec fights is recently while watching streams of them (while doing something else too ofc). So it is not like there is zero value in these massive fights, content-wise, and it would be a good thing if they ran more smoothly.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Wasn't one of the old sov war tactics that the Russians mastered putting like 800 ships in local at any battle they were losing in order to intentionally crash the node? TiDi just upped that limit, nice, but still, bigger blobs, bigger server headaches, blobbers gotta blob and blobber tears are delicious.

    The ease of force projection is one of the largest problems with Eve. You don't need to plan nearly as well when you can reposition all of your forces in the matter of an hour as long as you have some cyno ships and jump fuel.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "...reposition all of your forces in the matter of an hour as long as you have some cyno ships and jump fuel..." read it again... the part about FUEL.

      Wanna fix this? Easy... fuel for Cyno doesn't get used up by opening the hole... it gets used up by pushing MASS THRU A HOLE. Same as wormholes... Mass effects hole stability.

      Change the Black Ops and Capitol Jump Drive mechanics to control (reduce) the number of ships, by mass, that a particular ship can cyno. IE so much fuel can ONLY move so much mass. Then have different Cyno mods same as we do ALL mods with variable increased use cost for increased utility.

      Instead of "1,000 isotopes per light-year of travel; jump freighters require a base 3,100 isotopes per light-year; and, black ops require a base 400 isotopes per light-year" wouldn’t better be:

      ‘A’ iso x ‘Y’ kt x ‘Z’ Light Years? This can be played with, iterated, modified by modules and implants and GAMED all to hell and on and on and on… but it can also be used to NERF Cyno Power Projection back to a realistic, playable and INCLUSIVE levels… that ‘level’ the playing field for smaller Alliances, giving them a better chance to put together a better fight, reduce the horror that the BLOB in EvE has become and even, mebbe, letting some of the larger corps get in on the action.

      Delete
  19. Even though I'm not a fan of alter egos spawning even more alter egos, I can say I missed him, really did. Watch out for CSM-Garth guys! Doubly unpopular and not a fan of his brother's constituents!

    ReplyDelete
  20. I find the replies by the people offended by this post the most fun. You should post more Garth.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Part of the problem is that there is no downside to piling as many ships as you can onto one grid. Battlelines are a bit like napoleonic armies wih soldiers shoulder to shoulder and three ranks deep. That practice ended when modern weapons encouraged armies to increase the physical distance from one soldier to the next. Eve would benefit greatly from more area of effect weapons. The current two options of smartbombs and bomber bombs are not a start but wouldnt it be better if battleships could hurl exploding shells or launch exploding missles thus making maneuver and location on the battlefield? This would also nicely counter the sentry meta and limit the number of ships to a size that the aerver can handle. Larger groups would still have a huge advantage as they could attack in multiple systems at one to force choices as well as having reserve forces to committ as needed. This entire problem is one that the sandbox would fix if area weapons were added.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I love Garth. Garth for CSM 8 instead of Jester. Garth > Jester.

    ReplyDelete
  23. This post also apply to all the lambs that were lead to death today by CCP.

    All these threads popping about in eve o..
    I watch some of the videos, some of them did not even know what a bubble was.. :P
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAWSipOAEU4 (if you have the time)

    Plz Garth share us with more of your wisdom?

    On a serious note, was CSM in the know about todays plans for the live event?

    ReplyDelete
  24. This is extra hilarious after the carebear slaughterfest in 10% tidi and the ensuing ragestorm. Well played CCP :D

    ReplyDelete
  25. You missed a few points there Garth. The Stainwaggon side had only 1 HML Tengu fleet, the others were all railgun fit. The sentries were being dropped and abandon'd en masse by the side that were trying to save the titan. So...

    ReplyDelete

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.