Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Thursday, January 2, 2014

Fit of the Week: Mackinaw tank

Sometimes, things happen by coincidence. I'm pretty sure this is one of those times. But I've had three different people in the last couple of weeks either ask me about Mackinaw fits or complain about Mackinaw fits. I sent this fit to all three people:

[Mackinaw, Master Blasters]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Limited Kinetic Deflection Field I
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Mining Drone II x5
Hobgoblin II x5


Now, I'm not an expert at this so don't get the impression that I am. The last time I got into a mining ship was when they upgraded the beams for mining lasers. I wanted to see what they looked like. So I undocked in a mining ship, warped to a belt for a cycle or two, watched it, said "huh, pretty!", then warped back to the station. So if you know when CCP changed mining beams, that's the last time I flew a mining ship.

But obviously, there's a lot of you out there that do like the mine. I understand: I was a regular miner myself about... oh... four years ago. I found it very relaxing while I was working on the side on something more complicated or if I was watching a movie or something. So I know how Zen a good mining op can be. But of course gank Catalysts and the like roam the skies looking to spoil your Zen. So how do you respond?

Well, the first way to respond is eternal vigilance: watch that directional scanner. Gankers can't warp cloaked and if you see a lot of destroyers (or in some memorable cases, a lot of Taloses or Brutixes), be aligned and ready to warp off. That's your first best defense against ganking. But if you must stay and mine, there's no reason why you have to be a soft target. And if I were going to fit a Mack to be a hard target, what's above is how I'd do it.

To the very basic shield tank of an Invul and a MSE, you counter the primary source of gank damage: kinetic and thermal damage coming from blasters. You can't fit the T2 active kinetic hardener, unfortunately. But the meta one does a nice job and is supplemented by passive thermal resistance. Fitting a Processor Overclocking rig allows you to fit that, the DC, and a single Mining Laser Upgrade. The often-overlooked MAPC module is a great fit for a Mack, closing your grid deficiency. And don't neglect a T2 CDFE rig! Rig prices are remarkably low right now and this is the perfect sort of ship to take advantage of that situation. Mining lasers and a standard complement of drones rounds out the package.

Even with no shield links operating, as long as you are receiving standard fleet boosts, you will have 50k EHP against blasters and like damage which you can overheat to near 60k. That's a lot of Catalysts that will be needed to hurt you. But if you go the extra mile and actually have active shield links operating in the system, the tank on this boat will go to nearly 70k! And all the while your mining yield with drones will be 1540m3 before mining bonuses.

So again, vigilance is your best defense but if you can't have that, a BC-strong shield tank will stand you in good stead and will put in the situation of that old fable that tells us that gankers prefer soft targets...

If you have a Mack fit that you prefer to this one, post it in the comments! As I said, I'm not an expert at this.

Mine safe!


All Fits of the Week are intended as general guidelines only.  You may not have the skills needed for this exact fit.  If you do not, feel free to adjust the fit to suit to meet your skills, including using meta 3 guns and "best named" defenses and e-war.  Ships can also be adjusted to use faction or dead-space modules depending on the budget of the pilot flying it.  Each FOTW is intended as a general guide to introduce you to concepts that will help you fit and to fly that particular type of ship more aggressively and well.

24 comments:

  1. this assumes V in everything - default EFT 30,814 - you only need to be tougher than everyone else

    [Mackinaw, Yield and Tank]
    Damage Control II
    Mining Laser Upgrade II
    Mining Laser Upgrade II

    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
    Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
    empty (Survey Scanner I requires EG-602 implant)

    Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
    Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

    Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
    Medium Ancilliary Current Router II

    Mining Drone II x5
    Hobgoblin II x5

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yeah, but you don't need to be "tougher than EVERYONE else" just tougher than your average griefer pack using the boilerplate gank machine: the gallente catalyst.

      Gotta remember that shoving a medium shield extender is less efficient than 2 extender rigs, because you get more midslot space for resists...think about it.

      Also, plug that thermic hole. VOID S will be throwing equal amounts of thermic as well as kinetic damage towards you.
      Again, why tank for EVERYONE when you can tank for THE USUAL? It's been years since the catalyst was designed and it's still used. why? because 99% of the carebears out there have one thing on their minds: GREED.

      Delete
    2. Good points, Changing the mids and rigs gives 34.8k vs VOID.
      Any more sacrifices the 2nd MU which is rather the point. Measured greed. There should be plenty of softer targets around.

      Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
      Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
      Upgraded Thermic Dissipation Amplifier I
      Upgraded Kinetic Deflection Amplifier I

      Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
      Medium Core Defense Field Extender I *II is another 900ehp

      Delete
  2. It's a decent enough fit but the best tank for a barge is not to mine at the regular belts.

    A couple of level 1 missions have extremely good hi sec belts, unauthorized military presence is great for the solo miner and fair play part 2 of 5 is perfect for group mining ops.

    You can be scanned down and ganked of course but pick a quiet 1.0 or 0.9 system and it's not a problem. Best way to avoid a punch, no be there ;-)

    Dracoth Simertet
    RvB Red Fed


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=mininginmissions

      haven't gotten into that yet, but i'm fairly sure with a good sized corp this sort of thing would be a smart thing to do. Thing is, sorting out which can be accessed by orca/freighter support (which i doubt) and which gives the biggest bang for the buck vs travel time between acc. gates.

      Would it be safe to have at least one acc.gate between you and potential griefers? is it cost effective having that safety concern met?

      Delete
    2. orca is not really necessary on grid. (yet!) at a pinch you can use a stock a BC to provide the cycle reduction link. (use a prophecy with utility drones/highs). with a large enough crew you can clear a reasonable site within the two hour expiry of named cans. complete the site, and then the orca/freighter to warp in after the mission has been turned in.

      Delete
    3. The level 1 mission fair play part 2 of 5 doesn't have any gates so it's fine for Freighter/Orca support.

      It's a bit of a pain to setup since you have to slow boat over to the belt but anyone warping to the site always comes in at the warp in point regardless of how they try and get there such as probing or warping to a fleet member. Once your setup at the fair end of the belt you are 50-60 km away from the warp in point giving you time to warp off if needed.

      http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=FairPlay&show_comments=1#comments

      For missions that have nice belts but are hard to get support ships in the Miasmos would be what I'd use, MWD or Afterburner fit to get between the gates.

      It's not perfect and won't keep you safe if you are war decced for example but it's certainly worth doing.

      Dracoth Simertet
      RvB Red Fed

      Delete
  3. If you aren't going to fit a Mack for maximum mining, then you should not be using a Mack.

    If you need a tank on a mining ship, then you should be using a Skiff or Proc, both which come with a BC class tank, even before you start fitting modules and rigs. They have the added advantage of being the lowest priority targets for a gank - no matter how they are fit.

    Some people also forget that, due to ship bonuses, a single mining turret on the Skiff/Proc is equivalent to the two mining turrets on the Mack.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you do trade quite a bit of cargo to get a skiff though, as well the single massive laser pulse is often less efficient than 2 or three, wasting good portions of a cycle more often. that is you can only target one rock, if its smaller than ~ 3x normal stripminer yield you are wasting a partial cycle. with 2 you have 2 rocks to shoot at, requiring switching less often (none of this matters for ICE mining. that is a different story)

      Delete
    2. But the Proc/Skiff do not get the ore hold of the Mack.

      Delete
    3. "But the Proc/Skiff do not get the ore hold of the Mack."

      That is why you have an Orca, or Miasmos.

      Delete
    4. "you do trade quite a bit of cargo to get a skiff though, as well the single massive laser pulse is often less efficient than 2 or three..."

      Losing even a single Mack per month is much less efficient than using a Proc.

      Delete
    5. It isn't about the effeciency of ore extraction for a proc/skiff vs mack. Its about the convenience factor. The mackinaw/retriever is king of solo mining, if you do not have a dedicated hauling toon then using a mack/retriever is an obvious choice. Hulks/covs vs proc/skiffs is where the tank vs effciency battle really takes place. The Hulk, Cov, Skiff, and Proc all lack quite a bit of ore bay compared to the other two. Thus you really do need to have a dedicated toon hauling for you. At which point do you go with the Hulk/Cov + an Orca or the Proc/Skiff + and Indutrial....that choice is yours, you trade out efficiency for a bit more safety and cheaper price. In terms of just one person by himself in a belt with no hauling toon though, a Mack/Retriever will always win hands down. You can then adjust your risk vs reward between those two, do you risk the Mack for better mining at a higher loss or the retriever for less mining at a much cheaper cost.

      Delete
  4. This is where mining laser upgrades 5 comes in real handy.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hm. When I take your fit and put it into EFT, it tells me I will get 35k EHP with all skills on 5.

    When I take this fit, which I call "Starter Procurer", I receive ~52k EHP right from the start with easy to learn skills:
    [Procurer, Starter Procurer]
    Damage Control I
    Mining Laser Upgrade I

    Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
    Medium Shield Extender I
    'Dactyl' Type-E Asteroid Analyzer

    Strip Miner I

    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

    Going for a modulated strip miner then is no long journey.

    Agreed. You don't have the yield of a Macki. But besides that, you will have a way higher return on your Barge, than with the Macki, as you will be the center of attention in most belts / sites.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Replace those Medium CDFE's with Screen Reinforcer I rigs. The Reinforcer rigs are much cheaper and still give you a decent tank.

      Quite probably the cheapest BC-class tanked ship in the game, and certainly not worth ganking - which is your best defense.

      Delete
    2. Yep. And the Proc never gets ganked, no matter how badly it is fit. It just isn't worth trading a BC or gang of Cats to destroy one.

      Delete
  6. To start off with, you used the wrong hull. What you want is a T1 Procurer.
    Its cheap (14M per hull, 75M for whole fit and implants)
    Its tanky (60k EHP omni, 69k OVH)
    it mines (1482 m3 per min ore / 49 sec per ice block).

    This fit DOES require genolution CA-1 and CA-2 (~50M per set), but the total cost, implants included, is HALF the cost of a Mackinaw hull.

    [Procurer, MINER]
    Mining Laser Upgrade II
    Mining Laser Upgrade II

    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
    Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
    Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
    Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

    Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

    Mining Drone II x5

    Genolution CA-1
    Genolution CA-2

    ReplyDelete
  7. Here's what I use for ice mining:

    Mackinaw

    Damage Control II
    Ice Harvester Upgrade II
    Ice Harvester Upgrade II

    Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Amp
    Kinetic Deflection Amp II
    Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amp
    Domination Small Shield Booster

    Ice Harvester II
    Ice Harvester II

    Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
    Medium Ice Harvester Accelerator I

    5xWarrior II
    5xECM Drones

    or 5xValkyrie II






    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=15913 (15m isk)
      https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=19215 (40m isk)
      https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=13952 (27m isk)
      Are u out of your mind? my god, that's a big effing target on your back, bud.

      Delete
  8. Well, if you're standing still, you're pretty much losing half the battle right there. I'm not sure if the gentle readers of Jester's Trek are edumacated about catalyst grief tactics, but warping around with negative security is problematic so if you're outside optimal for just a few seconds that's an entire volley or two.
    What's top speed of a catalyst? 333m/s
    optimal is 2.5km - that's exactly the range you will displace when warping to a BM
    you have 7-8 volleys to get off in 0.6 sec space (that's assuming concord hasn't been 'pulled'...i think)
    What if your target mack was travelling nearly 200m/s? orbiting say, an icicle?

    So is it worth shoving an afterburner on or a medium shield? can't do both since shield extenders are pretty equivalent (between 2 rigs and 1 module) and you'd be borrowing from peter to pay paul.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. An AB requires too much PG, on a mining ship.

      Delete
    2. If you really want to try to "speed tank" in a mining ship, use a Skiff. The base speed is 200 m/s, compared to only 80 m/s for a Mack.

      Delete
    3. a skiff, eh? and too much PG? *checks ship* pretty damned sure implants are less than 30m isk each. yup. got them plugged in. Guess you're too busy with improved skill hax0r implants.

      and whom would be going for a skiff, pray tell? Can't really see a use for the things compared to macks, really. If you're uber paranoid about a gaggle of catalysts...or god, a squad of Ganknados wasted on you...why would someone do that? really...when's the last time someone went out of their way to gank a skiff when there's so many untanked greed fit lazy afk retrievers, covetors and hulks just over there across the belt?

      Delete

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