Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Monday, February 17, 2014

CSM8 Status Report: Week forty-one

You know... I look at my notes and this update is going to be surprisingly short! Sometimes, the train is just running along the tracks and it's good enough to point out that it is: fuel is good, speed is good, track is good!

This week, CSM members are making their travel plans for Fanfest. This is something that has to be done a bit earlier in the process for CSM8. Past CSMs knew which of their members were going to get the free tickets and which were not. This time, with the STV mechanic in place, the choices of who was going to get those seven free tickets was a bit more subjective. Such decisions are never, ever easy. If you're very fortunate in your career choices, someday you'll be put into a position that no matter how you choose, someone is going to be upset and angry with you. That goes with the territory.

CCP Dolan is handling this with good grace. He had some particularly difficult choices this year, given that CSM8 is probably the most active CSM in the history of the organization in terms of total number of members engaged and how much they are engaged. Dolan's doing a good job of balancing this and working hard to see to it that as many CSM8 members can go to Fanfest as possible. As with the summit attendees, I'll leave it to Dolan to announce who's officially going to Reyk.

Once again, this man deserves kudos!

The devs in general continue to be heads-down working on their charters for the summer expansion. Skype has been pretty quiet all week except for a couple of the usual suspects. We do continue to hear from them in the EVE-O forums as they have questions for us or want our feedback about different topics.

There was a minor explosion from the Community/Legal team this week about alliance logos. EVE players hate to be reminded that the EULA for this game clearly states that every single little thing in this game belongs to CCP: your character name, your pictures, your corp logos, your corp and alliance names, everything. Well, this week, CCP reminded players that that includes alliance logos. The very first thing you're asked to confirm when submitting them is that they are not copyrighted. But of course that doesn't stop a group like, say, Team Liquid, from using their world-recognized logo as their in-game logo.

So CCP is asking for players involved to set up a licensing agreement between themselves and CCP for fair use of these logos on both sides. And the orgs that have the most at stake in their logos reacted poorly. Fairly reliable rumor has it that Goonswarm is lawyering up.

In the meantime, I can see the argument on both sides. After all, if CCP Seagull's vision of capsuleers flying ships with their alliance logos comes to pass someday, this issue is going to have to be resolved. If the True Stories of EVE comic includes a frame with a Dominix with a Goonswarm bee on the side of it, who owns that art? Dark Horse? CCP? Goonswarm? It's a pickle, and no mistake! We'll see where this goes.

CSM9 campaign season has officially kicked off! The day after I posted my list of interesting non-incumbents running, Jita Park had itself a little local spike. So far, nine candidates have officially declared there and that only includes one of the incumbent CSM8 members so far. So things are finally getting rolling! Good luck to the candidates! I've already started grilling a couple of 'em...

We're still nudging Dolan about the Winter Summit Minutes. (Note to self: nudge Dolan again tomorrow about Winter Summit Minutes.) As I said last week, some of that is going to be complicated by the fact that many of the sessions involve topics for a summer expansion the theme of which CCP has not announced yet. We don't want to announce CCP's plans for them, so I'm sure we're going to see two sets of Minutes published this time: a more general set not related to summer, and then the summer set once CCP has posted a video and dev-blog or two.

And that's all for this week! Hm. That wasn't so short after all. ;-)

36 comments:

  1. " If you're very fortunate in your career choices, someday you'll be put into a position that no matter how you choose, someone is going to be upset and angry with you. That goes with the territory."

    The Army, every day.

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  2. The copyright issue is silly because any created piece of art is copyrighted. If I go, open MS paint and scribble a crude logo... I own the copy right to it. I don't have to do anything, it's an inherent right as a creator. So unless CCP wants us to use public domain art (and no "found it on the internet" doesn't make it public domain), almost all submitted logos *will* be copyrighted...

    LR

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    1. I think this depends on your country. At least in germany and france you neither can sell nor transfer your copyright. It is always connected to the original author. What you can sell etc. are usage rights.
      You can only give your copyright e.g. to CCP in the angloamerican legal system.

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  3. "... who owns that art? Dark Horse?"

    You don't know anything about Dark Horse or why they formed in the first place, do you?

    Dark Horse would never claim ownership of any artist/author's work. They simply enter into a publishing agreement. They make no claims of ownership. They've simply been granted a license for a one-time publishing arrangement.

    All CCP needs, like any functioning social website (see Facebook), is an irrevocable and transferable license to use artwork and names. That's it. There is no need to own anything. The CCP side of the discussion is inane.

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    1. It's not insane. You cannot give a blanket licensing agreement.

      Example, lets say your name was... oh... George Orwell. And you gave 3-4 different publishing houses permission to publish.. ahh.... 1984... 30 years ago. They have full rights to publish 1984, at that point there was only one type of publish, dead tree book form. Now lets skip ahead to say... oh... 2009ish.. if my memory serves. There is now things new fangled thing called ebooks. Now by any sane and reasonable logic, if you have an agreement to be able to publish a book in dead tree form you'd also have rights to publish it in other forms as they become available. But legally, Publishing and Digital Publishing are two separate things for copyright law. So a right to publish does not mean a right to digitally publish. So lets say one of these 3-4 publishers with rights to publish 1984 is a small publisher and doesn't really get there is a huge distinction. So they start selling ebooks of 1984 to... Amazon.com...

      Anyway.. you can hopefully see where I'm going with this.. and how the exact problem with licensing is something CCP would want to avoid.

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    2. And for some reason my brain said "Orson Wells" instead of "George Orwell". Oops

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    3. Poetic Stanziel...like herpes always returns. I thought this unstable, RMTing, former Eve player was no longer welcome on your blog, Jester.

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  4. Just a small clarification. Copyright applies to written works, music, etc. Logo's fall under trade marks and service marks. You don't copyright a logo, it's generally trademarked if it's protected legally. At least that's how I understand it, I could be wroung.

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    1. True, but - and here is the pickle preservative - logo's are not logos just because a group of people call them that. They need to be registered and legally attached to an organisation. That leaves EVE Alliance "logos" as commissioned or gifted artworks. It's is up to the original artist to licence their works and defend their rights. So yeah, without a recorded meeting of minds this can get very messy. Creative Commons licencing is a potential solution.

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    2. You *can* get a trademark on it, but you get an automatic copyright in any writing / music / pictures / movies you create (yes, these words are copyrighted; Ripard can reproduce them here because of fair use but putting them in a book he then sells would be a lot more complicated).

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    3. Remember, these rules are not equal in all countries. For example, there are significant differences between US copyright und German copyright. Sometimes even the terms doesn't mean the same.
      So it's not that easy.

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    4. In the US the logo will have a TM for a Trademark that's in the process of getting trademark status. Once it's approved it can have a R with the circle for registered trademark.

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  5. The way the new EULA was worded would transfer all copyrights from the original owner to CCP. not via a limited license (which is what they should have asked) but a straight up transfer. And the wording is written with icelandic law in mind, icelandic law does not cover original copyrights from say the US, or Germany. Hence all the mad words from the community.

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  6. And it's rather funny that you choose to say "the most active and most engaged CSM"
    Activity/engagement =! productivity because on that front CSM 8 has probably been the least productive.

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    1. I'm intrigued: which CSM do you think has been the most productive?

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    2. In terms of actually getting shit done? CSM 6 hands down.
      CSM hasn't done anything, except bitch about delayed minutes, and then when the minutes arrived it was just white noise.

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    3. However, i'm pretty sure you won't admit to this fact. Because if you would, you would admit to yourself that you wasted your own time.

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    4. The one with the spoon lady...

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    5. Hosi: OK, great. Now could you provide a list of the top five productive things CSM6 did?

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    6. Can you provide the top five productive things CSM 8 has done?
      And i don't need five examples. One is sufficient. namely: Getting CCP back onto the track of actual spaceships instead of barbie in space.

      But hey. I suppose that you can harp on about highsec pocos and the ebil goonies that will take them all.

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    7. So that's a no, then. I thought not.

      Also, CSM6 didn't do that. Several thousand people unsubbing did that.

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    8. Really Jester? So you are saying that CSM 6 had no hand in getting CCP back on track? Emergency summit ring a bell?
      You didn't answer my question though? Give me five things that CSM 8 has done?

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    9. The emergency summit happened because of the Jita riots and the associated unsubs. THAT got CCP back on track. CSM6 was helpful in channeling player rage, but they didn't create it, nor did they do something productive out of it.

      You're the one that said CSM8 hasn't done a thing. I'm waiting for you to answer my question. What does a "productive" CSM look like to you?

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    10. Several thousand people unsubbing did that.

      who knows?! I thought CCP didn't know the different between players and accounts. I think this is one of major points overlooked from Incarna, imo. After all it may as well be a one thousand players unsubbing several accounts. Which is not the same thing. The reason I point this out is the primary method of CCP targetting the existing player base for buddies or "side kicks". When a player quits, he takes multiple accounts - the current marketing continues this risk.

      As for the answer to Incarna. Tier3 battlecruisers were a cheap response. Borrowed ship images from Deviant Art and uninspiring bonuses / slot layout. Not to mention a massive power creep still not corrected. Does CSM 6 also answer for this?

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    11. So you are saying that CSM 6 did not to anything to help CCP get back on track? Then you sir are more dense and arrogant than i originally thought.

      No, your question was "Now could you provide a list of the top five productive things CSM6 did?" To which i gave you one example, because one is more than enough.
      And now i'm waiting for you to answer my question, to which you seem to having a hard time answering because there is nothing that you have produced thus far than can be considered anything but white noise.

      But please, go on about how you have been productive without being able to shed any light on what you have actually produced. Well, i suppose you have your written words regarding a flatout ripoff regarding a useless monument. That i can't take away from you, i hope you feel proud about something that 80% of eve considers to be a huge waste of money.
      And yes, i know that the CSM was fooled by the whole "marketing budget" argument, but that doesn't prove that you are anything else than gullible and incompetent.

      Delete
    12. I could be forgetting my history here, but didn't the CSM help get the riots rolling with their open letter to CCP?

      CCP had held the minutes to 'Sex' them up for ages. The CSM kept refusing to sign off on them. Then when they did come out the CSM released the open letter which pretty much clarified that CCPs version of what the CSM thought of Incarna was false.

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    13. So we are talking about the same CSM6, that when told that wormholes contained ABC ores. The immediate kneejerk from Mittani was call for a nerf. So pretty demonstrating complete ignorance of that section in the game. (oh look perceived threat to null income! crush it!!). Because an intelligent politician would "take it offline" to get an informed opinion/response. What did CSM6 do, prove that jabber ping voting and ego does not represent the larger scope content of the game (as in, outside of self-interest) or its players.

      Delete
  7. re: goons lawyering up over logo.

    so in essence, they got awoxed out of pixels by CCP? insert obligational "U mad bro?"

    besides, they don't have a lawyer, he's now a "journalist"

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  8. So i geuss the minutes will be out after fanfest. Since the most things will be announced there and thus the nda lifted of them... .

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  9. This might depend on the country. In germany you have automatically a copyright on everything you create, including logos. You also cannot transfer that copyright to anybody else. You can only give them a license to use your work in whatever ways the license defines.

    The trademark is then just additional protection e.g. that nobody creates some too similar logo or name etc.

    So I am actually not sure how this "owner of all right" really will work out if challenged in court (esp. as I am not a lawyer anyway). And Facebook does it a little different and actually talks about a license you grant them on not the other way around: "you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook". To me that sounds better but I am not sure if different rules apply if you talk about a packaged client compared to a website.

    In any case though copyright esp. on an international level is always "fun" I guess. And of course I could be completely wrong, too as IANAL :-)


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  10. I think the core issue is that CCP are demanding ownership then offering to license people's own work back to them, rather than requiring that submissions be licensed to CCP by the creators.

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  11. Any news on the Dust minutes from the winter Summit?

    Dolan said ages ago that they would be released in the near future.

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  12. CCP is doing exactly what they should be doing with respect to copyrights and trademarks. If it was my game I would do the same thing. If an entity wants CCP to include their artwork in the game for all to see they must cede all ownership and claims regarding that IP to CCP. Think about it: CCP doesn't want to deal with any disputes arising in any of 200 countries with different legal systems and treatments of IP. The best way to avoid all of that, and the one solution that allows them to sleep easy at night, is to demand total ownership of the property and the rights that go along with it. Any other arrangement would be insane.

    CCP does a fuckton of stupid shit, but their policy on logos is not that.

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    1. Except that that policy automatically raises disputes in countries, such as Germany and France where copyright is only transferable via inheritance.

      The only solution that is guaranteed to work everywhere is a non-expiring, non-exclusive license.

      Delete
  13. Matias Otero of Brave Newbies has announced his candidacy for CSM9!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4252862#post4252862

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  14. Is there anything that looks like in the pipeline giving eve a wow factor? For the past 2 years we've pretty much had fixing broken stuff and the odd new addition. Eve feels very boring and stayed at the moment it needs a shake up or at least something to go omg.

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