Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Thursday, February 6, 2014

mfw

The other "reaction of the week" I'd like to address is the Worlds Within a World monument to be erected in Iceland in honor of EVE Online players in April.

I myself wrote a thing (assisted by several other members of CSM8) in praise of the monument and what I felt it meant to CCP and EVE Online players. This is something that we had been asked to do at the Winter Summit and I think I speak for the entire CSM when I say we were happy that CCP was keeping this important promise made to players at Fanfest 2013 and pleased to be asked to participate. We were briefed on the unveiling plan and were again pleased by it. It featured a little bit of anticipation on the Community site and a few other fun promises that will become public in due course.

The unveiling date was only ten days away so I settled in to watch the reaction from players.

You know, there are times when EVE players or the CSM feel like they have to -- no, we are required to -- face-palm over the actions of CCP. But there are also times when CCP has the right to face-palm right back. This is one of those times.

The thread on the EVE-O forums is 18 pages as I write this, but just on the front two pages...
  • Awesome proof of how shallow CCP has become.
  • I think this boring and featureless statue symbolize EVE expansions.
  • Underwhelming. Please do not use timers for this kind of stuff, would have thought it was cooler if I wasn't disappointed.
  • I can't really imagine anyone caring.
  • what a giant waste of money typical ccp wasting money on things not related to eve in any way even when the game is broken
  • Giant waste of money
  • Did you HONESTLY think we would be so excited about this complete crap that you had to put a ******* countdown up for a week?
  • Meanwhile we are still waiting for CCP to produce real content.
  • It's two people banging their heads against a wall. It's perfect!
  • A monument.. or tombstone?
The vast overwhelming response from those players on the forums and on my blog here was overwhelmingly negative both about the monument itself and about the unveiling. Negative about the cost. Negative about the perception. Negative about just about everything.

Some of us really are bitter, aren't we? Shame on you. Seriously. Shame on you.

Let's address the two basest, meanest, crudest, most cynical criticisms first. And I can destroy both of them in just a few words:
  • If this monument causes only a few hundred old unsubbed players to spend a PLEX... and they see all of the changes that have made EVE a better game over the last few years, and they resub, stick around, and start playing again, the money spent on the monument will have been worth it.
  • If this monument causes only a single EVE developer to look out over the Reykjavik harbor and see the permanent representation of the stories, aspirations, and fun EVE stands for, and that moment of good feeling inspires him to design and develop a better game for the rest of a single day, the money spent on the monument will have been worth it!
And for you EVE players out there whose thinking is that low or that petty, those two thoughts alone really ought to be enough to make you understand what this monument really means. That really ought to be enough.

But myself, I aim a bit higher than that.

Do the people who feel this way about the monument really have no higher, no more noble aspirations than a few bucks? Are they really missing the real importance of this decade-old social experiment? Do they really dismiss so easily this virtual construct that really is -- when you get down to it -- unique on this planet? Is all of that really not worth taking five minutes and a few bucks to celebrate... even if for a few minutes?

Do you really have that low of an opinion of what we're all doing in New Eden?

This game brought all of us together and the years that I have spent playing it have brought me friendships and relationships that I'm going to treasure for the rest of my life. To me, that alone is worth celebrating and a permanent monument is a wonderful, representative way to do that. That CCP has chosen to honor all of us and what we've brought to their game with this permanent monument that anyone can see and learn about us from should be a source of pride and accomplishment for all of us. I said it in the thing I wrote: this monument isn't about CCP. It's about the people and the relationships and the stories that make up this universe that we've built together. That's worthy of recognition. It's getting that.

And if I'm in the minority of players -- even the vast minority -- for thinking that, then I'm happy to be there and I'm not bitter at all.

114 comments:

  1. You know, why i do think the monument is pretty cool, and will be excited to see my characters name on it if i ever go to Iceland; The only maybe problem that i can really find with it is the laptop time capsule part; correct me if im wrong but don't batteries discharge over time?

    Come to think of it though, i believe this is kind of a first for any company to do

    Side note: they should have made it a Sizable Pod flying upwards :) but the piece of art is pretty cool

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Electrical outlets and cords will more than likely be around.

      THINK ! (sigh)

      Delete
    2. Yeah. The reaction here is just appalling.

      Really, one of my chief complaints of playing for 5 years has been what seems to be the spurious attitude of around 75% of the EVE playerbase. Just seriously wretched unimaginative people.

      I'm seriously considering unsubbing my 4 accounts over this. I don't hang out or join organizations with people I find petty and to be unthinking zombies of the 21st Century Entitled-to-Everything I Want mentality. And I certainly do not want to continue to hang with so many who feel that way much less pay money for the "privilege".

      I don't want my character names up there with any of these terrible dweebs, really. Why should I ?

      The game is important to me, but not important enough to sacrifice my principles of just who I want to be associated with.

      They don't deserve to have their name next to mine, that's for sure. We have nothing in common at all.

      Delete
    3. @James

      Because running electrical cables to a laptop which is buried under tons of stone and which will never be used makes so much sense...

      The whole laptop thing is just for show; it makes a lousy timecapsule as the memory is going to degrade long before the thing is ever dug up. Maybe if they burned all the files to M-DISC or something it might stand a chance.

      Delete
    4. " I don't hang out or join organizations with people I find petty and to be unthinking zombies of the 21st Century Entitled-to-Everything I Want mentality"

      Umm, how the fuck did you survive EvE long enough for 4 characters over 5 years and call 75% of the player base who I'm sure you've met personally right? So you can say with utmost certainty that thousands upon thousands of players just outright suck.

      ....I'm 46 and call it bullshit. NOW what do you say? Am I part of that generation?

      Why not jump off that high-horse yer sitting on and embrace democracy. The vast majority of people that comment here seem to not like it. A SMALL group does. But in your "oh-so-privileged-world" we're supposed to STFU and die right?

      Please unsub if that is your desire, If you can't either watch a little criticism nor acknowledge the opposing sides viewpoint yer exactly the kind of person I don't want to fly with nor have my names carved next to on the latest bit of mental-masturbation from CCP. Your attitude and arrogance is the mirror-opposite of all us that are bitching now. And if you are willing to toss out those players who have actually been creating the content that's been tragically missing for the past few years I suggest you go back to your High-Sec Mining op and kindly eat a bucket of shaddup.

      Personally, I'm doing all this to spur Garth out of retirement...he may come down on me, he may call me names and say I'm wrong...but I'm not going to gasp and clutch my pearls if he calls me an idiot. Jester, Ripard and Garth ALL have their opinion and its just as valuable as all the others.

      As I write this, I can see Garth, fingers slowly twirling his mustache getting ready to unleash a bucket of kick-ass on all of us haters..I can take it.

      Its an OPINION..

      Suck it up and run a lap...


      Delete
  2. I think a lot of the negativity comes from the timer building anticipation for something more ingame related, like say the next expansion. If they just came straight out and announced it there probably would have been a much better reaction.

    What do you think of the decision to have a timer for it?

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    1. I think the reaction to the timer is kind of childish. The timer was on the COMMUNITY site. CCP is gonna announce new features on the community site? Really?

      It's the reaction of a pissed-off child who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas and is now gonna make the holiday suck for everyone because of it. It's a few days out of your life. Get over it.

      Delete
    2. The timer did exactly what it was supposed to do: Get people exited about something. The problem is that it got peoples' imagination going at the same time and they got excited about what they wanted, which has nothing to do with reality. Then when the reality of it came and it didn't have anything to do with the things they imagined up then they were disappointed.

      It was a trap that CCP laid for themselves and got caught in by being terrible at expectation management. It was a simple misjudgement and a lack of any kind of guiding information (that I know of) that would get people guessing in the right direction.

      They could have had "To those that have fallen [timer]" and things might have gone a lot better because it gives a clue that gives that imagination of ours a direction and prevents it from spinning wildly out of control.

      IMHO, the sentiment behind the statue is good and heartwarming, but the statue itself sucks and the reveal was hilariously botched. The reaction of the community was terrible but predictable.

      -Baljos Arnjak

      Delete
    3. This.

      Just wanted to write the same thing as Baljos.

      Delete
    4. Oh, and to clarify... I like the monument. It's cool. It's unique. The timer didn't bother me (I noticed it a week before and completely forgot about it again until you posted about it).

      It's just that I can understand people's reaction and think you are dismissing them too easily.

      Delete
    5. Baljos... Jester said it, IT WAS ON THE COMMUNITY site... not a Dev Blog or New Expansion Video... The only people here being terribad are, as usual, the self-centered, self-obssessed, entitled 20something children of EvE.

      I, a long time EvE player sw it was on the community site and made the (correct) assumetion it was going to be something to do 'with' the game or CCP et al, but not about 'content' IN the game...

      And you are, of course, entitled to your opinon of the monument, as I am entitled to say just how much I like it... and your perception is the only hilariously botched thing here.

      Delete
    6. This is exactlyhow I feel about the whole situation. Also, many have noted that the timer was on the community site, but fail to mention that at least the support link from the account management site redirected to the timer. I made 3 API keys this week and got redirected to the timer each time.

      Delete
    7. @TurArmarth - Hey, don't get mad at me, I was just explaining what I think went wrong and why the community reacted the way it did, and I thought I did so in a logical manner.

      Also, yes, it was on the COMMUNITY site, but that only means that it has something to do with CCP and CCP = EVE in a lot of peoples minds. In the lack of information, people will make things up.

      And I'm glad you like the monument, I really am. "Sucks" was too strong of a word, but "Meh" with a bit of artistic annoyance would cover it better (I consider myself somewhat of an artist). I just think they went pure symbolic modern art when it should have been something that the players would recognize as belonging in EVE that came into reality.

      - Baljos Arnjak

      Delete
  3. Non bitter yet still vet here.

    I pay to play spaceships, I invest my time to play spaceships, I pass up on a lot of other things because spaceships is what I'd rather be doing. EVE ONLINE as a whole, the entire game, is the one and only monument to what we love doing.

    This rock doesn't improve my monument. If the developers see more inspiration in this slab than the game itself than I say I want someone else developing, someone who looks to the real monument and sees where he can do wonders with it. If this piece of stone is seen by long lost pilots and inspires them to return then I say they were better off not even playing to begin with. If the game itself isn't enough to captivate people then what will this rubble do?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. The short answer is: Last.
      last and last and last and last and last long after everything you ever dreamed of doing is long forgotten. This will be visible from satellite so if there are real space ships out there they will have an object to examine that means something to thousands of people Worldwide, centred at the genesis of the idea.
      "rubble", maybe, after we've wiped ourselves out from nuclear detonation, genetically engineered madness, or failure to prevent asteroid collision. Even then this monument has a batter chance of staying in good shape than we do. God help us.

      Delete
    2. @Anonymous

      Well said!

      @quandry247

      And after all that time, who will care? Who will a bunch of fake names in a pretend world matter to? Aside from some of the more egotistical EVE players, I can't think of anyone this will matter to now, let alone a century or two in the future. It's a game; it's not exactly a major world event worth remembering for all time.

      Delete
    3. A some polished shapes, a bunch of fake names and time capsule containing technology at it's heart that will preserve and explain more about the phenomenon of 21st century gaming entertainment than any historian can pen.
      I'm spent on this subject now. I'll calling it a night and walking away. I'd be lying if I said my faith in humanity had not been shaken today.

      Delete
    4. @quandry247

      That's funny (in the ironic sort of way), as my faith in humanity has been shaken as well, from the exact opposite perspective. I find it incredibly disturbing that some people think that playing a game is something worthy of this sort of recognition. Talk about self absorbed and entitled children!

      Delete
    5. It'd be rude not to reply.
      The value of play http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/9/2/3/9235d9f2060a1c1300199d0ecab703db.png alt text: cooperation wins, unless your aim is to loose, in which case you're just playing by different rules and you "win" on your own terms.
      I'm not answering your question, I'm giving it back to you in a larger context
      http://www.jesusjazzbuddhism.org/whats-the-value-of-video-games.html
      Goes some way to explain gaming links to organised religion; they build follys too, who knew?

      Delete
  4. Again, I think the problem is not the monument. Its back to the old problem of expectation management. This was announced at Fanfest last year and was generally positive, but it wasn't massive was it? The collectors edition, the mini-series, the comic book/true stories. All that was more anticipated than the monument.

    Then we have this timer. It gets everyone excited. Then it reveals... something that has already been revealed last year.

    I commented in your post on the day, I think, if they had just released a Dev Blog or site about it, I don't think there would have been this issue. However, it was built up too much for something not it game.

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  5. I kinda like the view that it's two people bangin their heads against a wall, it makes a lot more sense and I can laugh at it. It's still no giant golden dildo with spikey bits.

    I seriously doubt you cannot understand why people would take cynical view of anything CCP does, so can we at least agree we are all cynical, just in different shades of it?

    To your counter points:

    1). I hadn't considered this and if it works to get more players in, all the better. Now if they stay subbed, well that's another topic I feel you've already covered.

    2). I get the image of the Roman Emperor Nero playing his fiddle while Rome is burning. Can't say why.

    Now, I have a view of monuments that might differ significantly from what those other posters on Eve-O and your blog have. Monuments are done in honour of the dead for the living. The dead are dead. Gone. Nothing is going to bring them back. Anything done to honour them is for the benefit of the living. Which makes me wonder if CCP is about ready to announce that the social experiment is complete, it took 10 years and change but by golly one group managed to pull it together as conquer nullsec, time to pull the plug and unveil Eve 2.0, now with improved POS code and sov improvements!

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Really, do you not pay attention to the news relating to your hobby?
      CCP is in the business of memorialising legends. I'm really looking forward to Baltasar's spin on The Stories We Made.
      The majority of us may be jaded techies used to the cubicles and confines of our digital boxes but EVE has always been an expression of beautiful cutting edge art. Take the art out of New Eden and you have no pulse.
      I can't tell you how threatened I feel about some of the mononic opinions being waved about like giant phallic foam hands surrounding a football field. Mob idiocy scares me cold.

      Delete
    2. "CCP is in the business of memorialising legends"....Sheeit...that's the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

      CCP IS IN BUSINESS TO MAKE MONEY. NOTHING MORE. All the rest is window dressing and marketing which it seems you swallowed!.

      And historically, yes its the precious individual who starts the revolution..but its the mob behind him that gets the job done.

      Delete
    3. Hear hear... I, for the most part, hate when the louder and less intelligent take up keyboard to show us all just how selfobsessed and short sighted they can be. I take comfort though, in my bros ingame... that silent majority who just PLAY the game... and don't really have much ado with the metagame... I just wish more of them did is all...

      Delete
    4. "2). I get the image of the Roman Emperor Nero playing his fiddle while Rome is burning. Can't say why."

      Hilmar struts while EVE crashes?

      Come on, we need a good phrase for this; I'm sure someone more poetic than I can do better.

      Delete
    5. "IN BUSINESS TO MAKE MONEY. NOTHING MORE"
      Okay, he's done that. What next? How about a solid to all the folk who made his success possible. Including you friend.
      If anything it is us the players that are talking EVE into an early grave.
      I believe in the power of imagery. Personally, I think most of you are responding to a photograph of H looking thinner than you are used to seeing him. IF my tentative connections in that regard are anywhere near the mark, then I wish him well with anything within his power to achieve.
      There is no mad emperor to deride here.

      Delete
    6. @TurAmarth

      Let me get this straight - those who feel that being recognized by having their pseudonyms etched on a monument is inappropriate are self-obsessed, but those who are clamoring for such a monument and are eager to see themselves on it are not?

      Do you even know the meaning of the word? What dictionary are you using?!?

      Delete
  6. I think, essentially, the monument reminds many people of Permaband's "Keep Clicking": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4NZUOGj8vY - That's the reaction that results in calling it hubris. After all, we know what happened last time they were feeling this good about things.
    Add in a side of feeling from pilots that they didn't earn this moneument, and you get people falling back on arrogance in an attempt to find someone who might think they earned it, after all. Also, a lot of people may, in fact, be embarrassed to be memorialized like this.

    Somewhere you or another CSM explained that, since the marketing budget is separate from the dev budget you couldn't actually hire another couple of devs with the money anyway. Given that, I'm not too miffed about it overall, but I definitely worry that it is self-promotional hubris and that, therefore something is about to go horribly wrong.

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  7. So, I guess, after rereading your post...

    "Do you really have that low of an opinion of what we're all doing in New Eden?"

    Quite possibly! I clearly don't have as high an opinion of it as you do, even as friends comment, when I tell them about it, that it'd be a perfect target for grad student papers. Of course, I also have a rather low opinion of most public art, so having a low opinion of this piece of public art is hardly unique.

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  8. Replies
    1. One of the top search terms on my blog this morning:

      "garth eve-online monument"

      Clearly there is demand.

      Delete
    2. Yeah well, people forget that half the time, Garth blasts players for being stupid. Check it if you don't believe me.

      Delete
    3. Then, based on that Ripard, I believe WTB Garth/Monument post is even more required than usual, donch think?

      Delete
  9. DireNecessity put it best " It is a little odd to contemplate that my character will be etched in concrete while I, the hands behind that character, probably won’t (grave marker excepted). Note to self –Endeavor to be more important than your virtual character!"

    Some people fail to realise how far eve has come. When I started, all warp to gates landed at 15km out. There was no warp scramble or disruptor or even the MWD. Tech II wasn't in game and meta 4s were the best mods. No faction ships existed nor did exploration, wormholes or incursions. mining in null was very lucrative because of mineral rarity. There was no tutorial and you spent months learning learning skills. No PI and there was no titans or dreads or cap ships at all.

    They build a statue for making a huge game, each year having 2 expansions that we dint have to pay for. Letting players buy game time with in game currency, and what does a large number of players do? Whine because it wasn't what they wanted... Entitled brats these days. You say thanks, they demand a reward...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Entitled is thinking you actually deserve such a monument.

      Yes, EVE has come a long way. It has gone from being an online game... to being an even bigger online game. It's still just a game. Is playing that game really worth memorializing? In the grand scheme of things, is it that big of an accomplishment? To spend a few hours a week sitting in your chair, logged onto the internet, and clicking a mouse at space pixels? If you actually think that it is, then that's what I call entitled. It's the mentality of "everyone gets a trophy, no matter what they have or haven't done." Get over yourself!

      Delete
  10. I played the game for five years and just cancelled my subscription a month ago, and did it for good after burning out.

    I would like to have my name in that monument, because five years, it's half of EVE's life. It also is a sizeable chunk of my life. But it turns that the only way to be on the monument is to either be active (even if your account just was born the day before) or to be dead in RL -and have someone recall you.

    I feel seriously scorned. Everyone who ever did *anything* for the game and has been driven away by /reasons/ is being disregarded unless they happen to die in real life or pay AGAIN for the privilege.

    Five years have teached me the futility of expecting that CCP gets anything right, and this whole "monument to the guys who give us 15 euros yesterday or threw the bucket in the last ten years" is just another instance.

    This is not awesome, Ripard.

    It is CCP.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thoughts? OK, thoughts. I think this person is being petty and spiteful. After playing the game for five years, he doesn't have 650m ISK to buy one PLEX? If he hates the game so much and those five years are so awful, why is he reading this blog?

      Delete
    2. I'm sorry, is there a way to buy a plex to fund your account when it's not currently subbed?
      -Bantara

      Delete
    3. Yes. From the Account page you can activate a 4-hour reactivation of your account for free. Do that, log in, fly to Jita, buy PLEX, activate PLEX.

      Delete
    4. Jester, it has been mentioned several times that many find reading about EvE to be more interesting than playing it. (You also DO write a great blog so there is that as well) That being said, he played 5 years and earned his opinion, just as you have yours. Who knows what his experiences were to make him bitter, what are they to each of us to do it in the end?

      To some people, being promised something means something. Years of broken promises can make one...bitter. Esp. if you put your own money into it.

      Just saying.

      I'm sorry you seem to be drowning under an avalanche of negativity on this I really am. I love reading your stuff but you decided to do a public chat...you are now reaping the rewards of it. I know you're a big boy and can handle it but it is what it is. Alot of us DO love this game as much or even more than you...if we didn't care you wouldn't hear a peep. If you sincerely think all this negativity is just the assholes screaming...yer sincerely wrong.

      You really might want to consider this, many of us started all dewy-eyed and young as newbs, played, got disappointed and left. For each of us that stuck it out for years we saw 10X our number leave. Ever consider that this might be some sort of knowledge that the vets know that the same pain IS coming to all the new people, and that we simply want it to stop, and the only way it WILL stop is for CCP to get its collective shit together vis-a-vie EvE and its legacy of major problems that are continually glossed over by FIXING THEM.

      We ALL love EvE...some more vehemently than others, but we DO love it. You try to protect what you love. When we see BS...we call it out. We've seen it now for 2+ years...nerves are getting frayed. You love military history so here's an analogy for you, like Lee's troops going into Gettysburg for shoes, you never know what will trigger a huge fight. Well, Hilmar went shoe shopping...this bloodbath of negativity is the result.

      Delete
    5. That's right, I had /totally/ forgotten about that option!
      -Bantara

      Delete
    6. Just curious, what is the logic behind recognising dead players but don't recognise players who contributed to the game and no longer play?

      I already suggested to allow them to petition the name thing. But maybe Hilmar wants everyone to pay for the privilege of being a part of his monument... or else die! XD

      Delete
    7. Seriously Anon11:56, YOU chose to leave, why the hell would they put you on it? ESPECIALLY after your oh so kind remarks...

      And what with Bots and cyno and scan and freighter alts n such, CCP sure as hell shouldn't list ALL the toons ever in EvE... and were I them I sure as hell wouldn't list ANY unsubbed Mains either... they chose to leave... either cause RL>EVE (which is just what it is) or you know, the ones like you... 'cause you hate the company without whom you would not have HAD an EvE to play in for those 5 lost ill-spent years...

      "Everyone who ever did *anything* for the game and has been driven away by /reasons/ is being disregarded ..." Really? Anyone who ever did *anything*?? Who the hell are you Anon? What did YOU do for the game or for anyone that's worth the recycled electrons you typed up that BS with? And also, I see you think NO-ONE in the game TODAY is doing *anything* for the game???

      And yet after all that, you feel entitled to have your toon's name on a monument you hate built by a company you hate who make a game you hate SO much that you LEFT? Screw you... personally I'm glad you won't be on it... no matter who you were.

      As for reactivating your toon... what Jester said... RTFM.

      Gods this whole monument thing has for some reason really forced the cockaraoches outta the cracks aint it?

      Delete
    8. TurAmarth, Anon11:56 reporting back.

      After 68 months paying to CCP, I've missed the monument by just two months (if they had announced it one month ago, I still would had been able to keep bearing with EVE and extend my last account to meet the deadline). Admittedly, the straw that broke the camels' back for me was the gutting of WoD's level design team -so currently CCP is working on zero projects that interest me (what they do for EVE, is not "working on it" but "pretending to work"). Though, I would had bore with EVE for the monument.

      For the time being I still care enough of EVE as to wish to be at the monument, but I feel scorned by being asked MORE money/commitment right after CCP cheated on my hopes for the last time... -^o^-

      Delete
  11. I couldn't agree with you more Jester. The sheer amount of negativity surrounding this unique- and it IS unique in the world of games- project is just incredibly depressing. Maybe it's just the overall feeling of entitlement that seems to permeate everything these days that causes people to complain when they get given something that isn't exactly what they wanted/expected.

    It's all pretty sad.

    For my part, kudos to CCP for doing this.

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    Replies
    1. I don't understand why everyone keeps calling this "entitlement". For me, it's sheer incomprehension of why they thing we ought to have this.

      I've been convinced that the effort involved wouldn't have been any more productively put to use elsewhere, but the incomprehension (which lends itself to explanations by way of hubris) is my problem with it.

      Delete
  12. I honestly thought you had more world experience than this Jester.

    I have heard the words you are using over and over again by people selling vanity projects. Go and re read "The Emperor with no clothes" and see how your words fit within that context.

    Its not your fault, the 'vision' people can fool people pretty easily if you don't know what to look for. You have been sucked in this time. Maybe it will be like Somergate; after you have the CCP shades removed from your eyes you see it for what it is.

    I am not saying its a bad idea. But honestly "If one Dev looks out the window and is inspired its worth it" Jesus I have heard variations on that line SOOOOOOOOO many times.

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  13. The monument is a fine testimony from CCP to EVE and all its Players. The count down was a great move to push excitement and the publishing of this community site with just "hey there now is ..." would have been far less noticed.

    Instead of a half day of "have you seen the monument site?" we had a hole week of "hey do you know what this timer is about?". Sure there are many people out there who thought of something else to be revealed there but the loyalty for EVE from CCP shown off in a long lasting monument is worth a few disappointed players.

    And I guess I'm not the only one who missed the promise for a monument at fan fest or simply forgot about it. It is non the less a promise CCP made and they delivered and it deserves more than a simple news note as announcement.

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  14. "Do you really have that low of an opinion of what we're all doing in New Eden?"

    After all the developpers leaving for Riot games, scandals, things broken staying broken even after they try to fix them -or not- (Rapid missiles, Phoenix, POSes, Black holes anomalies, scanning minigame in WHs...) I cannot help but be unable to believe that its not only about the money. Especially after the Hilmar's letter about the monocle shit.

    Yes its cool and yes its probably worth it. But the fact is that we are starting to get tired of all the hype CCP is building out of thin air at every occasion since incarna (included).

    - Fanfest was for Eve players stripped of interesting grand announcments, with only a blurry "vision". We are not even able to get stuff that was precise, defined and promised (POSes...) so why would anyone care or think CCP can do something about "a vision" ?
    - All the money that has been spend on DUST for a bad game on a bad dying console.
    - WoD near-shutdown
    - All the incarna stuff.
    - The new useless bounty hunting mechanic at Retribution
    - The new useless Discovery scanner nobody wanted, that spins around every time you session change timer, should you want it or not.
    - The new useless mobile depots that people can scoop at any time even when reinforced...
    - This Ûber buggy ugly launcher that nobody wanted and that destroyed the beautiful and so inspiring login screen for no reason.

    All these things have generated hype for NOTHING. So I guess that like a lot of us, CCP again building a 7-days hype for a god damned monument has been the last straw.

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    1. I was with you, until this bad list of good things:
      "- All the money that has been spend on DUST for a bad game on a bad dying console.
      - WoD near-shutdown
      - The new useless bounty hunting mechanic at Retribution
      - This Ûber buggy ugly launcher that nobody wanted and that destroyed the beautiful and so inspiring login screen for no reason."
      -Bantara

      Delete
    2. Speak for yourself, I like half of the things you listed, so "we" are not getting tired of all of them.

      Delete
  15. I agree in essence with your post Jester, I will however point out that you have selected the lowest of the low by quoting posts from EVE-O forums.

    If there was ever a group of EVE players that could be characterized as being over-reactionary, immature, narrow minded, whiny cry babies, it's those who comment frequently on EVE-O forums. Apologies to the very few who comment on EVE-O and try to counter their snark and hysteria with well reasoned logic and intelligent discourse. Your pain is felt.

    If you look at other forums, you will see that a lot (a majority?) of players actually realize the potential value in what CCP are doing. As an example, contrast the most popular comments on Reddit's thread with the least popular comments:

    www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1x33ht/eve_monument/

    The top comments on Reddit are overwhelmingly positive and it is clear that the majority of players on Reddit have at least some grasp of how cool & beneficial this could be.

    Using EVE-O forums as a measure of player perception is akin to assessing the skill and strategy of your local school's under 8 soccer team and concluding that the Brazilian national team haven't got a clue what they're doing. So when you say:

    "The vast overwhelming response from those players on the forums and on my blog here was overwhelmingly negative"

    This says little about overall player perception but says a great deal about the patrons of those fora. They're the ones who can only see as far as the burger and fries they were promised after their frolicking on the soccer field. Their are other more mature groups that can fully appreciate what it takes to be successful on a global level.

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    1. Lets see, the overwhelming majority of the negative quotes relate to it was a waste of time and money that should have been dedicated elsewhere.

      Do you see those complaints as people asking for individual fixes for only them?...or large fixes that will please the entire playerbase?

      Your argument says alot what you consider Maturity and vision to be...

      Delete
    2. "Lets see, the overwhelming majority of the negative quotes relate to it was a waste of time and money"

      As if to prove my point... To even get close to evaluating if the monument is "a waste of time & money", you need to be in possession of a lot of facts. Facts which you or they clearly do not have or have even had the initiative to think about. Here, I'll help you out a little bit...

      -- How much will the monument cost in total and in maintenance? Now onto the possible benefits...

      -- What additional revenue will be created by existing players who will PLEX or resub to get their name on the monument?

      -- How many people will hear about the monument and investigate EvE and subscribe to get their name on it? What revenue will be generated by this?

      -- How many of the vast number of recently created trial accounts (from B-R) will now subscribe for a month or more where previously they would not have?

      -- How much would it cost in advertising / marketing to get the same level of exposure that EvE will get due to the monument?

      -- What value is there in having something tangible & permanent that reaches out to people who previously would never have considered an online space MMO (or even video game)?

      -- The monument will probably appear in every Reyk / Iceland tourist guide for many years to come. How many people will see it, investigate (QR Code on the monument?) and end up subscribing to or talking about EvE?

      I could go on and on listing the huge number of possible benefits / revenue generation for EvE, CCP and the EvE player base.

      But as you clearly pointed out, the majority of comments on EVE-O just blindly claim it as a waste of money. No facts figures or even the slightest glimmer of thought has gone into their narrow minded and selfish whinging.

      Thanks for unwittingly highlighting the exact point I was making.

      Delete
  16. I actually do like the monument. How many game companies put up a permanent, and real, not virtual, monument up to, and for, their players? While CCP is a business, and is concerned with profits, as it should be, they do have a better relationship with us than companies that look at their customers as walking wallets do.

    I think the major issue with this is the timer itself. We all know that you can't build up our expectations and then not produce something monumental (no pun intended) at the end. I don't think that CCP would be getting as much flack if they had simply announced the unveiling in a Dev Blog, or news item, instead.

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  17. The Vice Chair doth protest too much, methinks.

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  18. A lot of people take a perverse pride in being angry and disappointed about everything.

    The reason for this is that, deep down, they know that they're inadequate and unlikeable, and they need to project that on the rest of the world. They assume that since they're shit, everyone else, and everything they do, must be shit too.

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    1. Yes Malcanis...that's exactly what all this bitching is about...a HUGE group of players that deep down know their shit and just decided to use this forum(s) to vent.

      Either you are French and sickeningly existential or you clearly don't have a fucking clue as to what you are talking about. .

      I vote "no Clue".... Or, if you ARE French.."Je n'ai aucune idée et je suis un putain d'idiot"



      Delete
    2. The voice of firsthand experience, I take it.

      Delete
    3. Wait...what? Where'd the French thing come from?

      I mean, I understand that some people are racist, but even that just kind of came out of nowhere.

      Delete
  19. I think most of the backlash is 'whiplash' from the timer. People expected new awesome, we got... a thing that was announced last fanfest. You don't go from OMFG to 'meh'. It's really hard to make that jump, from "excitedly awaiting some Next Big Thing" to "oh, that's nice". You overshoot, and end up feeling that someone has wasted your time and energy getting you all fired up, just to say "That thing we said we were doing? We're doing it."

    I don't know why CCP ran a timer to announce that they hadn't cancelled the monument. It makes no sense.

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  20. Lets play "what if CCP..."

    What if CCP had posted at the end of that countdown timer that ONLY citizens with a -5 or higher sec status could be on the monument as they wanted EVE to be represented by the best. Let the community rage at that and spike the lowsec tag market for a day or two.

    Than have CCP Guard and CCP Fozzie release a dev video of them smuggling around as they hear the news and hatch a plan to have every outlaw pirate's name scratched into the base of the monument in a sort of graffiti font.

    Now the monument is all about the choices in EVE, and would drive a TON of game play as players decided if they wanted to be on the pirate or upstanding citizen half of the monument and everyone visiting the monument will know that in EVE, there is a choice between good and evil.

    This reminds me why you can't play what if ccp, it hurts too bad.

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  21. "Do you really have that low of an opinion of what we're all doing in New Eden?"

    500,000 guys being jerks to each other doesn't counts as a high in my list of noteworthy achievements of mankind... XD

    (Anyway, the monument opens interesting venues for metagaming: FAI, how will they put the names on it? Will it take paint thinner/acid/a chisel to erase someone's name from the monument? Also, will it be graffiti-proof? What about taggin your corporate colors on it? And what would happen if someone vandalized -say- Vile Rat's name?)

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    1. Dear pagen gods that's creative thinking! Is that what meta gaming is? I've had it wrong all along, EVE's not been about building lasting memories and relationships. It's about fucking people over in the most offensive way possible.
      I finally see why the Mittani sits on his throne of ultimate achievement - and despairs.

      Delete
    2. Well, some years ago, CCP made a contest and the prize was to display the winner's flag on CCP's HQ. Then, someone actually stole the flag and used it as a rug and video'ed everything...

      So yes. Metagame is about being a jerk by means other than being a jerk ingame.

      Delete
  22. I stand by my positive google+ comment on this subject. https://plus.google.com/101749589716610294316/posts/jKM8miVGHqA
    If you really want to be cynical about it try something like accusing CCP of contributing to the arts as a tax-break to lighten-up it's phat profits. Even so, it is still a generous gesture from people in a position to make generous gestures, you don't have to have your name on it, there is still time to let you sub run out and if you're seriously anti you can petition to have your accounts deactivated citing this issue as a reason. Honestly, there is more buoyant gas concentrated here than in the skyward sphere.

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  23. Cut them some slack, Jester.

    For years, EVE has been about how to derive pleasure from bursting the sand castle of other players and/or meta-gaming risk away.
    What type of people that's supposed to attract to the game? Visionaries? Artists?
    Humans with average sensibilities?

    Hardly.


    As could be seen from the reactions, the more vocal part of the community if more of the 'what's in it for me?' griefer type.
    That monument told us a lot more about the players than it did about CCP.

    I do sympathize and fully agree with you.
    But rest assured than there IS a silent minority out there that was just as impressed as you were by this show of originality.
    A lot of EVE and CCP is about being unique, daring and artistic and some of us can fully appreciate it.

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    1. And considering how much of the game is made up of such people, are they really worth memorializing in this way?

      Delete
  24. I thought that the most damming comment was when Endie said it was derivative of Barbara Hepworth's work, which I think managed to be an insult against both her and the monument.

    I have some mixed feelings about the monument. I am generally in favor of it. I think it is kind of cool. The game deserves something nice after 10 years. I like the idea of my character's name being on it, regardless of how tiny it will be. And it isn't quite the eyesore that some of the artwork Blizzard has outside of its HQ.

    On the other hand, didn't CCP lay some people off last year? Isn't DUST 514 languishing and World of Darkness getting minimal support? And isn't EVE itself having problems with servers being able to support the loads caused by null sec battle?

    You can see where people might go, "Hey, was this the right priority?"

    I have no idea what the monument cost CCP. Maybe they get a big tax deduction for putting it in the harbor that will off-set whatever they spent. Maybe Hilmar bought it out of his own pocket. It might very well have had zero net effect on the company. But coming from Silicon Valley, there is a point in the life of many successful startups where they are suddenly making money and they decide to splurge on new offices and other nice things. I call it the "art on the wall" phase. That has put a millstone around the neck of many a young company where they ended up laying people off later because the art and facilities budget was too big. So fine art in young tech company lobbies always makes me go, "Hrmm...."

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    1. Good post, just some points:
      * I bet that the monument is coming from the marketing budget for EVE (if it is even paid normally by CCP). So even if it doesn't look good from the outside, neither laid-off people nor DUST 514 nor World of Darkness come into the equation.
      * Same for server load. Neither hardware budget is touched, nor any of the people involved in building the monument would be able to do anything about server load.

      Delete
  25. I would have appreciated an in-game monument more.
    Even better - player created monuments that are permanent game landmarks. In spite of the risk of "dicks and profanity" monuments, I would love to stumble upon "Ozymandias"-type structures from the past. "We are BOB. Look upon our works, ye mighty, and despair!" The thought of being able to change the game in some permanent way would probably be enough get me to resubscribe my accounts.

    That said, I will probably re-sub for a month just before the deadline. So I guess that will help defray the cost of a monument I'll never see.
    -Mark

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    1. I dunno... I always thought that "Ozymandias" was a parable about not getting a swelled head and thinking your stuff mattered too much, rather than a story about leaving your mark on the world.

      Delete
  26. Jester, I just cannot shake the feeling of how wrong you are here bud.

    Garth wrote a lil counter to this originally, (paraphrasing here) about "what have YOU done to deserve a monument?. After the past 4 expansions which even according to you were not vast improvements on the game you now have people here who for 2 years have been diligently either playing to earn PLEX or simply (like moi) paying that monthly sub. While its nice to think my characters will grace the side of a piece of rock somewhere the truth is, for several years now CCP has done SHIT to "earn" a monument.

    Lets take a look at the content thats been generated by CCP to bring in new subs vs. what the playerbase has done that has generated content. The giant battles are what brings in the people, not a fricking exploration ship or a info-box with new abilities to organize your info. WE, the players have been carrying CCP for the past several years making this game work with the myriad of issues it has....and for this we get a P.O.S. lump of stone with heavy caveats as to whether or not you will appear on it at all. The names only go on if you're a subbed player in April from what I've heard. If thats the case than this isn't a monument so much as its a grab by CCP for cash with a cheap ploy. Dress it up however you like, it is what it is.

    Nobody gives a shit if 1, 2 or 10,000 people resub...they will quit again. Why? What made em quit to begin with princess?....dick for content, legacy problems never addressed and issue after issue that have been brought to CCP's attention and have been ignored, pushed to the side or done cheaply and not fully.

    But CCP got the cash from em...so its a win.....right?

    The entire thing smacks of self-loving and ego it makes me nauseous. When you see the player base come out the way it did against this is it that suddenly each and every one of those players is wrong?....or does each and every one of those players FEEL wronged? You Sir are tryng to "sell" an idea to the most stolen-from, screwed-over and scammed group of players out there playing a game that has taught them to trust nobody...and you're suprised with the reaction? EvE TRAINS you to smell Bullshit...guess what we all got a big ol whiff of?

    CCP has got some major problems and now sounds like the boss who runs out and gets the giant antique oak desk for 500K for his office and tells everyone how important it is for the company as a whole because it will impress visitors. It benefits nobody but CCP's ego.

    Their vision is now replaced by gimmicks and other useless shit simply designed to lure players in and get their cash. Now we have Comic Books and a Movie/TV deal coming?...EVE went full corporate on us. That my friend is why I think most are pissed. The bloom has come off the rose for all of us to finally see the Emperor has no Clothes.

    Cash is coming in by the bale and still no fixes to the actual game we've been pleading for for years. But..here's a monument none of you will ever see in person..all better now?

    I personally didnt see pissed people, I saw the people that for years of their support to CCP with THEIR hard-earned blood and treasure finally waking up to what the true direction of CCP now is...and once those glasses come off...its impossible to put em back on again. Thats why your resubs to the game for this mean less than nothing Jester. To a resub player, EvE is like the stale milk in your fridge you open, take a whiff of and put back thinking "Maybe it'll be fresh tomorrow" Thats you're average ex-EvE player there boss...once they open the milk and smell, they'll put it right back and unsub....again. Because it ain't fresh.

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    1. I stopped reading 1/3 of the way down when you said CCP didn't do anything to deserve a monument.

      The monument is to the players, not CCP. It's not their names on it, it's ours. (Well, actually, each CCP_* does have at least one active character, so they will be on it but we don't know who.)

      Re-consider your points with that in mind, see if they're still valid points.
      -Bantara

      Delete
    2. Oh really?...it's to the players?

      Where is it?...oh yeah...where nobody will see it.

      What is it being used for according to jester?...Inspiration to CCP employees..

      Who gets to be on it?...ONLY people subbed up next month. NOT to all players ever. If you ain't subbed-up next month....fuck you and your "efforts" as a player in the past

      I suggest you take those rose-colored glasses of son....

      Delete
  27. The split between those negative and positive probably comes down to your investment in the game.

    If you see the game as something more than a game (like most folks who blog), then you will be positive about it. There's nothing wrong with seeing Eve as real and inspirational, but this is a feeling that apparently not many in the player base share.

    However, if you play the game as a game and will move on to another game when this one becomes stale, then your reaction may be more negative. To these folks, it comes down to a desire to see more game development rather than bells and whistles. Any dollar spent on a monument is money that could be spent on fixing current problems with the game or developing new content. To them, its a question of resource allocation not building something cool.

    Oh, and putting a timer for the announcement was a bad way to manage expectations as most have already noted.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. "Oh, and putting a timer for the announcement was a bad way to manage expectations as most have already noted."
      But Jester just cruises right past this point, in both posts and all comments...
      -Bantara

      Delete
    2. Thats not true, he has fallen back to making crude insults.

      "February 7, 2014 at 8:25 AM
      I think the reaction to the timer is kind of childish."

      The crazy thing that even CCP have said that internally many of them thought the timer was a mistake. So in effect Jester while trying to back up one area of CCP is telling another area of CCP they are wrong.

      Jesters just showing signs of being "on the inside" he is now part of the company "group think". Its the reason he called us all names about Somergate to begin with. Once you are seeing the world through the company tinted lenses it can make understanding why people are upset hard. So as Jester has done you either ignore them or insult them. The perfect example of this was Hilmar with Incarna.

      He isn't going for CSM next year and so next year he will be able to look back and see things more clearly.

      Delete
  28. Are you really suprised at the cynical reaction? I often say that Eve's worst enemy is its own playerbase. In this game you have a vast majority of players whose idea of fun is the griefing of other (often newer) players in any way they can get away with. It takes a certain juvenile mentality to use complicated game mechanics to do your best to ruin the experience of other people and this game has an abundance of that mentality. I have come to believe that the playerbase is made up in large part of personalities that lean toward histrionics. Get on any Teamspeak channel and listen to the players attempt to feel important about themselves and cry for attention. To me it is all quite amusing and I must confess, I like selling these idiots their equipment for a handsome profit. But at some point you have to ask does it make for a great game? Are these people you want to associate with? And does it make for a growing subscriber base? The answer to all three is absolutely not. This game will die a slow painful death unless the mentality of the playerbase changes or the mechanics are changed to better insulate new people from the antics of the same morons who wrote the quotes in your article. Those idiots are doing their best to destroy the experience of every new player that signs up for this game.

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    1. Those "idiots" as you call them are also the ones of a mentality most likely to welcome a monument to their own greatness - what better way for them to "feel important about themselves"? What bigger "cry for attention" could there be? I think it's the more sane and less depraved of us who are largely against this thing.

      Delete
  29. Low opinion of what we're doing in New Eden? It's not low--it's appropriate for a game.

    I'm with the people who think the monument is okay, but using a timer to announce it was a poor decision. Same kind of decision making that makes us facepalm, as you were saying.
    -Bantara

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  30. I think the problem is that the majority of eve players looked at it and "looked well that's cool and moved on". The knee jerk reactors are always negative, and they tend to care a lot. So it's no surprise which group posted on the forums.

    ReplyDelete
  31. How could you possibly expect any other kind of response? That's just as much of a jaw-dropper as the other comments you're complaining about. It's like you just now noticed the people in this game.

    The EVE player base is a terrible terrible thing. It's actually one of the leading problems that holds the game back. The overall population is comprised of thieves, liars and bigot that think they're amazing because they have pixels that cost actual money that they can lose forever. That's not awesome. That's crap. They may claim that it's just how the game is played, but you have some of that mentality irl in order to embrace it elsewhere. If being terrible isn't part of your persona, the you won't understand it and thus wouldn't be able to use it even in a game.

    tl:dr Why would you expect loftier results from terrible people?

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    1. The better question is why would you want to put up a monument in tribute of those sorts of people?

      Delete
    2. Sheeit, By those standards about 99% of all statues to "Great" men would need to be torn down.

      A more fitting monument to EvE I feel would be something that actually celebrates the sociopathic, vindictive, paranoid and psychotic nature of your typical EvE player. Maybe Hannibal Lector strapped to a Rifter turned into a handcart....

      Remember kids, the Sociopaths of today we all love to point fingers at and hate are the FC"s of tomorrow you celebrate for huge victories. EvE is a giant collection of Alpha Males...Honestly, EvE I think is a Sociology Mecca. Be happy we've all collected into one place so as not to scare the games out there.

      Or, be frightened...very...very ..frightened...

      Delete
  32. Please don't chastise the player base for their views, they have as much a right to them as you. By implying they are bitter for not proclaiming the wonders of the new monument, you marginalize concerns that could be quite legit. To many, new content would be much more preferable to a monument and what is exactly wrong with saying that?

    I can see how its hard to have faith in a company that builds monuments rather than gives concrete plans about changing the game or adding more content. New players may come with a desire to get their names on the monument but if we don't stop strangling those new players in the crib it won't lead to any new long-term subscribers. I hardly think the developers need an inspirational monument, that's called a paycheck.

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    1. There is current prolonged global recession, the worlds richest (most indebted) countries are in the midst of crippling self-doubt as they realise what corporate induced consumerism is doing to the planet. There is plenty to be negative about. Iceland has always been a hard place to live in but a small band of crazed coders with eyes larger than their stomach spent themselves creating a futuristic fantasy world to escape to. Somehow it succeeded beyond anybodies wildest dreams bringing fresh blood, vitality and purpose to the local area and more, much more. If this is an ego trip, so be it, Reykjavik knows what CCP brings to it's harbour. Deduct CCP and the player-base from this equation and what do you get? Three super talented artists with a polished vision to relate and the skill to deliver a lasting well crafted thank-you to the land that spawned an idea that conquered the world. Worth every penny to those that believe their time, personal (plus virtual) presence and monies are of value to this world.
      There is already a monument to what that Iceland has taken from the world, don't begrudge them the chance to build something to celebrate what they have given.

      Delete
    2. @quandry247

      The least they could do is be honest about it being an ego trip, rather than trying to justify it as being "for the players." It's the blatant false representation of this that galls me.

      Delete
  33. Tbh, I was expecting to be trolled, mostly because of the fact that CCP is good at that. Instead, I'm actually rather pleasantly surprised at this monument. I like the fact they are bringing dead names back, too.

    Jester, this needs a Garth post, just to blast the idiots. Do it. You know you want to.

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  34. If just one player resubs it would be worth it.

    Okay, but imagine how many players would resub if any of the major issues were fixed, (POS' and other legacy code issues) wouldn't that also make the effort worth it?

    And I know the budget devoted to things like the monument is separate to the budget devoted to development and coding, but that's when you need to re-allocate your resources. The monument might bring a player back and sure that'll make it worth it. But fixing larger issues will bring people back in droves, and that would also be more than worth it.

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  35. Ripard, let's take a look at your points which supposedly "destroy" complaints about the monument:

    "•If this monument causes only a few hundred old unsubbed players to spend a PLEX... and they see all of the changes that have made EVE a better game over the last few years, and they resub, stick around, and start playing again, the money spent on the monument will have been worth it."

    Ok, prove it. Get CCP to disclose the actual costs of this monument. Most players who are looking at the cost of similar art projects and the potential revenue from a few re-subs are seeing a huge disconnect between the two. Maybe we're way off on the cost of this project, and that would make a big difference. So if you really want to put this argument to rest, you're going to have to show us some numbers.

    "•If this monument causes only a single EVE developer to look out over the Reykjavik harbor and see the permanent representation of the stories, aspirations, and fun EVE stands for, and that moment of good feeling inspires him to design and develop a better game for the rest of a single day, the money spent on the monument will have been worth it!"

    This just reinforces the idea that the monument is for CCP, not the players. This is to reinforce their legacy and greatness in their own minds, and further inspire them. Few of the players will ever see this thing, but the devs will view it constantly. It is the height of arrogance to erect a monument to oneself, and that's exactly what Hilmar/CCP has done here. It's the sort of move made by tyrants and dictators throughout history who desire to immortalize their own legacy.

    "Do you really have that low of an opinion of what we're all doing in New Eden?"

    It's still just a game man, get a grip!

    I realize you've formed meaningful friendships in the course of that game; that's great, by all means celebrate those friendships! I have friends too, in and out of games. Many of those friendships are very valuable to me, and they are people I would sacrifice anything for. But those friendships are meaningful to me on a personal level; they are certainly not deserving of a few tons of stone and steel to declare their importance to the world, and no such monument could ever add anything to the personal importance I attach to those friendships. To require such a marker is simply shallow.

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  36. I think DJ (former CCP Sreegs) nails it on TMC here:

    http://themittani.com/features/monuments

    Make the thing a monument to Eve and it's players or make it a monument to those who have fallen. To try and mix the two cheapens the whole thing. It's crass.

    And for you to dismiss those who disagree with you as 'bitter' is disappointing Ripard. You're better than that. Feel free to disagree but don't be simply dismissive.

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    1. I didn't respect Sreegs when he worked for CCP.

      I'm suddenly going to start now that he works for a CCP *competitor* (a fact that should have been mentioned at the top of the piece)? I don't think so.

      Particularly when he's just flat wrong. The project clearly evolved in the years since he left CCP and it was made quite clear at Fanfest last year what the purpose of it was. If he wanted to bitch about its purpose, that was the time to do it.

      Delete
    2. I was moved for a moment by Darius' words... but realized he made a big mistake: He forgot we are all going to die.

      *Every* eve player, from the mighty Mittens to the lowly miner are all going to be dead one day... The Eve servers cold and rusting, our bodies in the ground (or burned to ashes). So yeah, it is okay for us, the living, to be on a monument with the dead. We will all join them, in time.

      LR

      Delete
    3. @Jester

      I never respected DJ/Sreegs when we worked for CCP, or even long before that. I was fundamentally opposed to his methods, tactics, and ideas, while his personality put me off completely.

      However, in reading his article on the monument, I found myself having to agree with every single word; not something easy for me to admit as a committed anti-goon. Maybe you should put your personal issues aside and actually pay attention to what he's trying to say.

      Delete
  37. "Do the people who feel this way about the monument really have no higher, no more noble aspirations than a few bucks?"

    Malcanis seems to think that's what it's all about. He keeps posting in the EVE forums about how it's all a marketing project.

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  38. Judging from all these response I would say EVE has a real problem. EVE hates itself. It doesn't like who it is. Probably for good reason. The game is built around the idea of never being more than a complete a-hole to everyone all the time. Not much to like there.

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  39. My opinion is "Meh" and its a waste of money, but its not my money to waste, so whatever they want to do with their money is up to them. If folks have a problem with this, then they can simply vote with their money and unsub if it irks them so much.

    My only problem is with the choosing of which accounts get selected. Saying
    "Hey guys, resub so you get your character name engraved on it" is kind of a douche move. Now, if they came back the day after the deadline in April and said, "Hey guys, we've actually decided to add all paid accts we've ever had on it instead. If you feel like you've been scammed, remember, this is EVE", then I would totally high five them.

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  40. Considering the responses I have read over various forums perhaps the monument should have instead depicted a crying baby. As it is, I like the monument idea and appearance. Also, there was absolutely nothing new in the announcement, as it is almost one year old news. Then again, I haven't drunk my brain cells away so I remember the information given over twitch.

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  41. I am going sneak some chars on EVE monument with funny names and one about bitching the Adobe Flash Player quality, maybe i might manage it.

    lol

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  42. wow. On one hand, I don't really care to play EVE with people like this. On the other, I don't want to cancel my subscription after CCPs gesture.

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  43. Amazing how increasingly self-entitled the forum-going EVE players are becoming. Clearly anything not contributing to a player's pet concern is a waste of time.

    Sometimes I wish CCP would permanently wipe the EVE character database, ideally with fire. The tears from so-called "bitter vets" would be worth it. Because seriously: fuck the EVE forums.

    If CCP wants to do something they think is awesome, for fuck's sake be an adult, put on your adult pants, stop whining about your pixel-dick and let CCP do it. Because if CCP only did what the player base wanted, EVE would be dead, just like if Gerald Ford listened to the public, he would have made horse buggies rather than the Model T. Because John Q Public is a vision-less moronic jackass who needs years of training to wipe his ass.

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    Replies
    1. Seriously people, look up the phrase "self-entitled," you obviously don't know what it means. You're just latching onto a buzzword without even thinking about what you're actually saying.

      Turning down recognition because you don't think it's deserved is not "entitled," it's the opposite. Entitled is wanting such recognition and believing it is deserved, regardless of how little you've actually done to earn it.

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    2. Someone was asleep in history class!

      Delete
  44. When I heard this (and I do like the idea, in theory) my first thought was about how the government of Iceland would react to a public monument with horrendous player names like Niggerbigdick, Jewhunter etc inscribed on there.

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  45. silly, Jester, don't feed the trolls. If i ever go to the eve fest that monument will be a must see on my to do list.

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  46. Damn, I sure would love some of that kool-aid too.

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  47. "If this monument causes only a few hundred old unsubbed players to spend a PLEX... and they see all of the changes that have made EVE a better game over the last few years, and they resub, stick around, and start playing again, the money spent on the monument will have been worth it."

    so the monument indeed is about making money?

    i think and heard, that ppl left the game, cause ccp turned into being ... well, i think the monument pretty much represents what they think of ccp.

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  48. I find it absurd that people who immortalize monuments that are made of pixels, that are a representation of ludicrous amounts of time, that spend large percentages of their lives in front of a computer screen looking at fake ships in an imaginary universe, would throw fits about an actual concrete structure paying respect to them. I suppose I should have come to expect the unexpected from the pilots of New Eden.

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    Replies
    1. Maybe it's because we realize that spending " ludicrous amounts of time, [and] large percentages of their lives in front of a computer screen looking at fake ships in an imaginary universe," is not an accomplishment worthy of this sort of accolade.

      I find it even more absurd that anyone would think that sitting on their duff for hours a day playing video games should be considered worthy of a monument.

      Really, which idea is the more ridiculous?

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    2. So to clarify, your point is that video games are not a worthy pastime, or that players are not deserving of respect (or a gesture of appreciation) from those that create the games?
      Nowhere in my statement did I say that we deserve a monument. What I think is that it does not make sense that people are complaining about someone doing something nice for them. Whether that nice thing is a valid gesture is generally not up to the receiving end. When someone offers you a gift you didn't earn in the first place, you don't throw a fit because you know you didn't earn it. You just say thank you. It is such a simple concept one should learn by the time they are three years old, it's a wonder the issue even warrants such agitation.

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    3. No, I said that video games were not a pastime worth of this sort of recognition.

      If you agree that we do not deserve a monument, then why is it not reasonable to consider such a monument a waste of resources that could have been put to better use?

      Many of us do not see this monument as CCP doing something "nice" for us the players, despite what they may claim. We see this as what it is: a monument to Hilmar's ego.

      Giving someone a "gift" which the giver benefits from more than the recipient is not an action worthy of gratitude. It's the old "I got you this because I wanted it myself" approach, and is incredibly selfish.

      Delete

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