Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Tuesday, March 11, 2014

Kill of the Week: Despicable you

So, sometimes there's just nothing else to pick...
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22280912

I don't like listing suicide ganks as the actual KOTW around here. Sure, I'll point to interesting ones, and from time to time make a big deal of one that goes above 15 or 18 billion ISK. But this Raven Navy Issue is just crazy uncalled for. Two thirds of the mods are officer quality, the rest are high-end dead-space. It's a ludicrous, ridiculous kill-mail, brought low in its unbuffered state by a single volley from a mere five Tornados. That's a 30 billion ISK ship crushed.

But the story apparently only starts there.

Soon after the kill, it was claimed that the gankers offered to sell the guy his mods back to him... and only wildly overcharged him for the privilege. And if that was where it had stopped, that would be fairly disgusting.


But then it apparently got outright despicable. TMC is claiming that -- sensing an opportunity -- a member of Goonswarm offered to recruit the guy. The "recruiter" made him a promise of both reimbursing most of his first loss and "transporting" the replacement ship he bought (and the overpriced fittings he'd recovered) to a "safe" "awesome PvE" location. He talked the guy into trading over the replacement ship, all of its fittings and cargo (which included some PLEX), and only charged him another 500 million ISK for the trouble. This is assuming all of this is true, of course. But the story's been out almost a week now and there hasn't been any indication that it's not true.

This is taking "a fool and his money are soon parted" to rather impressive new lengths. The "recruiter" seems to have stolen $1600 U.S. from this guy, primarily in new officer mods.

It's rather spectacular. And rather despicable. Whether you could do this to another human being, I leave as an exercise for the student.


On to honorable mentions and I'm going to limit myself to just a few.

This Nomad made me laugh a lot. Stopped by customs in high sec, this jump freighter pilot was probably confused about why he was getting shot at... or maybe he was just AFK. In any case, he was declared to be a drug smuggler by the NPC faction police on entering high-sec and lost his ten billion ISK jump freighter... because of ten million ISK in standard boosters in the cargo hold. Whoops!

Know how I like to talk about solo ships killing anchored SMAs and XLSMAs around anchored but off-line wormhole POSes? That's a knife that cuts both ways if you're not careful. An alert reader told me about a POS in J101817 that has an entertaining history of killing people who mistake it for an off-line POS with juicy anchored mods around it. Here's an example from last week, a wandering Manticore lulled in, but the POS has killed a couple of T3s in its day, too. The trick is to anchor these mods well outside the force field of a small POS that has a scram and a number of guns... then hope the unwary don't notice that just because the SMA is not inside a force field doesn't mean there's no force field around! It apparently works just often enough to make it worth while. Cute stuff! Thanks for the pointer!

EDIT (12/Mar/2014): See below in comments! Apparently, there's a way to on-line mods without a POS force field being up! Really interesting stuff!

Couple of other quickies...
  • Not sure what's going on with this Tayra kill, but it's entertaining whatever it is...
  • The slaughter in Ignoitton continues and indeed, intensifies...
Moving on.


Number of dead super-caps last week: 0

Third, nothin'. Fourth, nothin'. Fifth, nothin'. Sixth, not only nothing, but not even a single kill worth 10 billion ISK. Seventh, nothin'. Eighth, nothin'. Ninth, nothin'.

Matter of fact, it's a full 15 days between last week's Wyvern kill (24 February) and a Lev killed today (11 March) which so far is the only super killed this week. That's the longest stretch between super kills since I started tracking them 18 months ago. Feast or famine, know what I mean? The Lev will be covered next week.

68 comments:

  1. Not that long ago you were preparing a post about why you thought Eve had failed to gain or was failing to gain a larger audience. This Raven kill and the aftermath pretty much explains most of it. That it received thunderous applause from the community at large explains the rest.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. That post is still coming. It's all but finished, in fact.

      I just can't bring myself to publish it because it comes off REALLY negative.

      Delete
    2. I think I know where Jester is going with this, because I've been thinking along those lines lately. Good luck. Be prepared.

      Delete
    3. I'm still trying to figure out where I come down on this myself. The guy comes off as an entitled jackass to almost everyone, but, at the same time, that's a great way to lose whales, whether or not it significantly loses subscribers.

      Mabrick posted something similar so you'll be in reasonable company. Also, if you feel that something needs to be talked about because it's a problem, it needs to be said.

      Delete
    4. Its unfair to draw too much from this particular incident. If you believe the reports, the "victim" was complicit in the subsequent scams by proving to be an asshat who threatened the gankers with bodily harm in rl. That's the sort of thing that certainly will get folk riled up and make you a target. But yea, CCP really needs to consider separating new players from the established player basis for the first couple of weeks or so. Its funny in rl you dont get to fly a plane without having some virtual simulator time under your belt, but in eve they give you the keys and tell you to go forth right away. Its no wonder there newbee kills like this. Apart from separating the new players from the old to give the new players time to get their feet wet, there should be no tampering with EVE's meta game. The meta game is what makes EVE unique. How many folk actually heard of EVE because of things like the hidden hand infiltration, etc. . . EVE needs the meta game - without it EVE would just be a really boring pve game, e.g. orbit red x and press f1.

      Delete
    5. Every time this comes up, someone instantly whines (not without some justification) about not wanting walls in their sandbox.

      Delete
    6. No amount of time separating new players from older players is going to prevent these scams occurring. Similar scams happen all over the place to pilots of all ages.

      On the other hand, having successfully scammed the guy by selling his modules back at inflated prices, why did this mob keep going?

      Surely there's a grain of humanity piping up and saying, "we've done enough damage to this guy, let's lay off for now and come back for a visit next month"?

      If you're going to hunt whales you have to make sure you don't exterminate the species, y'know.

      Delete
  2. Just to point out that there is apparently a way to have an online pos with no forcefield up. I've seen 2 traps like that in wormholes so far.

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    1. See below. I find this really interesting!

      Delete
  3. A flytrap pos has lots of guns , webs and points, but no password. No password means no forcefield, so it looks offline.

    Bonus points for putting one where a recently destroyed pos was.

    As an optional extra, anchor t2 bubbles to cage it.

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    1. That's really interesting! I'm gonna play around with it.

      Delete
    2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i4qlF_9__4

      a la Rocks and Kings, surprised you have already seen this one.

      Delete
    3. not exactly a flytrap but as usual Rooks & Kings surprise us yet again. amazing game this is that allows deception

      Delete
  4. What? Having boosters in you hold can make the faction police kill you??? Then why doesn't it say that in the description or attributes or legality or eve wiki anywhere?

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    1. It works like this: the faction police have a random chance of stopping you when you're carrying illegal items, including some boosters. If they do, you get a standings hit, and you get scrammed, and you get a dialog message that you need to forfeit the illegal items and pay a fine. You have a short-ish time limit to click the 'pay fine' button. Fail to do so, and you get criminal flagged, and they start shooting. Death usually follows, but unlike CONCORD, it's semi-possible to evade the faction police. Only real defence, of course, is to avoid the initial scan... which is why actual drug smugglers use blockade runners, and are careful with their cloaking.

      Delete
    2. waiiiiiiiit...i can smuggle drugs using a blockade runner? *jester clock™ reset*

      course, this could be either a troll or just speculation so definitely testing this one carefully. lol

      Delete
  5. Didn't particularly care for the actions taken in the first ALOD, as it just seemed like kicking someone while they are down, but the one caveat is that the guy started throwing around threats about "getting people in real life" "because he is a lawyer". Anyway it did seem a bit "shady" in the telling so you could be right about its truthfulness.

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  6. Jester, hey just a small heads-up. Towers can be online without having their forcefields up. So... there can be no forcefield but mods are still provided power. Basically, you online a POS and never input a password is my understanding. That's what happens in J101817. The stick is online, but there is literally no forcefield so unless you read the "online" tags beneath the modules it actually looks dead.

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    1. Huh! If true, that resets my EVE clock. ;-) Really interesting! I'll play around with this on the test server.

      http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2014/02/beat-clock.html

      Delete
    2. yeah, i can confirm that. It's pretty funny sidenote, and fleshes out Jester's previous speculation on the KOTW sucker tower. The juicy module in question wasn't outside the shields - there was no shield thus looked offline.

      I think that players will see what they expect to see and get fooled

      Delete
  7. Jester, the guy threatened the killers with RL consequences. That obviously made him suit for being stolen 1,600 USD as he can't do shit about it, which is why RL threats are such a serious concern to griefers in EVE...

    I wonder how much positive word of mouth can a game earn when a new player loses like 500 USD and then is stolen of 1,600 USD in his first days, before he even haves a chance to figure out what he's doing.

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    1. Yeah, you don't exactly see CCP crowing about this kind of situation.

      And I haven't decided how seriously to take ANY of the things the victim said in chat.

      Delete
    2. Doesn't matter how much truth is there inside his threats. His action justifies more scams and tears.

      Delete
    3. It really doesn't justify anything. On the other hand, what it does do is *provoke* more scams and targeting because a sufficient subset of players think it's funniest to go after people who whine, especially if it's profitable. (BTW, the guy in question biomassed his character recently, so you can't get *this* guy.)

      Delete
    4. No, the victim's actions justify a report of RL threats to CCP, and then leave him the fuck alone.

      Continuing with the scamming and theft is launching an expedition in to the depths of sadism and cruelty.

      Delete
  8. That someone could do such a thing as the second CNR gank is sadly unsurprising. That someone could do such a thing as the second CNR gank and expect to be praised for it makes me want to throw up, rinse out my mouth with gasoline, scour out my brain with steel wool, and ponder on whether there was a reason that the Bible didn't get specific with regard to kneecaps.

    Despicable is a good word.

    (And it's one more reason I'm hoping that the new-stargate initiative also involves the releasing of eldritch abominations that will eat VFK like a popover. Is it too late in CSM8's term to lobby for that?)

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Way too late. ;-) Start in with CSM9.

      Delete
  9. I know that ganking and scamming are part of EVE. I don't care for those parts of EVE so I choose not to participate in those activities.

    I think the issue with with this player comes down to information and being educated about the game.

    Early in my EVE career I was ganked. I had to learn a lesson because someone asked for some help and I thought I can help. That is the way I am in real life. I did help that person and 3 players ganked me. I lost a ship and learned a lesson. It was a hard lesson at the time and I lost a fair bit of isk. They saw my fitting and it was so bad, they gave me a fitting and explained it. They gave me isk and suggested I join a corp.

    That lead me to learn about the game mechanics and gain other players knowledge through a corporation. Also to accept that you should trust no one unless that trust is earned.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. And that's exactly why the story in the butterfly effect trailer would have ended with: "you decide to drive the raiders away and kill the mining barge yourself."

      Delete
  10. Does this cross the boundary of scamming and real money exploitation?
    Other side, could this be a new RMT method?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. "Does this cross the boundary of scamming and real money exploitation?"

      Only if they had an active role in convincing him to spend the money in they first place.

      "Other side, could this be a new RMT method?"

      Nothing new here.

      Delete
  11. It's funny how EVE warps my sense of ethics. I SHOULD find it despicable that someone was scammed out of, not 60 bil ISK, but $1600 USD via PLEX. From the TMC story, it sounds likely he really did pay for that ship out of pocket.

    Yet after reading his hilariously, almost disturbingly detached comments about being a lawyer and hunting his perpetrators down IRL, I really can't say I feel sorry for the guy in any way. Fool and his money through and through.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Anyone can say something stupid in a fit of anger, as so is human nature (denial-> anger-> bargaining-> depression-> acceptance).

      On the other hand, it takes a true bastard to steal 1.600 $ from a guy who doesn't knows how to play the game, and then boast about it.

      Delete
    2. and i wonder how he ever passed his bar exam, given the lack of motivation to learn and the lack of ethics himself. and apparently he knows no law

      Delete
    3. When I say I doubt ANY of the things the victim says, that includes his statement of age and profession.

      Delete
  12. Of course what the gankers and goons did was despicable. Every sociopath on the planet who has the ability to play Eve is drawn to it and stays because the Viking dev's have built the sociopaths' wet dream.

    But what this asshole in goons did is no different than what so many others of them do on a daily basis, only on a larger and more publicized basis. And note how this behaviour is celebrated, and by who. These are the same type of people who would happily prey on others in real life, if they could get away with it.

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    1. But what's your point ?

      I play EvE because I cannot fly space ships in real life. I can't blow up other people stuff. Its a game.

      Now I don't scam, as it doesn't fit with my internal set of rules, but the gank of a prize of that value is understandable. There is a probability of good loot drops, and odds are that someone with a bling-fit ship like that has some idea of how they work.

      Now as for the aftermath of the kill, to milk an unsuspecting fool out of his ISK? I can honestly say that this guy got what he deserved. Quite honestly.

      It shows a complete lack of understanding (hey he's a noob, why rob a noob? 'Cause a noob worth having in the game understands he needs to learn the basics before all else) of not just the mechanics of the game, but a complete misreading of the intent of the game.

      Oh, and as a note, if this doesn't dismiss the concept of PTW as being a viable route in EvE, I don't know what will. An idiot drops $1600 bucks on a game with the concept in his head, that if he does he will 'win' EvE. Give a 3 year experienced player $1600 bucks to spend on EvE, and he will have so much fun in that first month, he'll piss rainbows. But he still won't "win" EvE.

      Delete
    2. *whenever they can get away with it.

      Fixed that for you.

      Delete
    3. Slow hand clap to the guys that did this.

      I think that people hide behind the 'sandbox' as an excuse for behaviour that they can't fully justify any other way. The strange thing is is that the same people that say 'its a sandbox everything is allowed' also say that, as a noob, you must play the game in a certain way. So, no, as a noob you can't use PLEX to buy a big bling ship and you deserve to have it stolen.

      Essentially you are saying that EvE can be a sandbox but only if its the sandbox that you created and defined the rules for.

      Delete
    4. "Now as for the aftermath of the kill, to milk an unsuspecting fool out of his ISK? I can honestly say that this guy got what he deserved. Quite honestly."

      This is bullshit of the highest order. Do rape victims get what they deserved if they wore a short skirt?

      Did the guy that Mittens tried to have bullied into suicide get what he deserved?

      Delete
    5. Dinsdale never has a point. Oh and it is all for RMT. Never forget, everyone playing eve successful is doing it for the money. ;-)

      @March 13, 2014 at 4:59 AM
      You are still talking about an Sandbox RPG, right? So yeah, the guy got what he deserved. He deserved a sandbox with evil goons that try to outsmart him. He got it.

      Might he be a little depressed because he lost all his game money so fast? Sure, but it is still just game money. The guy lost his $1600 the moment he decided to spent it on eve-online items, there is no official turning them back into fiat currency. He did not lose a single dollar the goons, he lost a shit ton of isk and items to them. So what? This is literally what eve is all about, welcome to the game, play smarter next time.

      Delete
    6. "DESERVE to have earned or to be given something because of the way you have behaved or the qualities you have" ~Cambridge Dictionary

      Taken in the case of rape victims, i'd say it wasn't their behavior nor dress but the fact the rapist raped. What punishment should be meted out to those who caused this victim his lose(s)? Do they deserve censure? Did they receive any?

      All the victims in these cases were easy marks, obviously...even patently so. They didn't "deserve" punishment nor censure they just happened to be randomly selected by random griefers to be randomly treated unfairly.

      This game is unfair. It's built to be unfair...there are countless complexities and mysteries to this game that are just begging for people to take advantage of others who unwittingly place themselves in danger.

      This game is risky. I love that. I think the risk-averse temptation is that lazy bone in every one of us (including Jester)
      I think that is what is missing from your comment, Knug Lidi. You forgot about the concept of risk in your rush to judgment...it would have tempered your argument's ferocity.

      Delete
  13. I am not sure why you make the case that there is anything wrong with the big money Raven kill and the follow up scam. That is just the "sandbox" game. Just another no name player that will probably never come back to this game. He'll also tell everyone who will listen that the playerbase is made up of shitbags and bad mouth CCP at every opportunity. Then we all sit around and wonder why the playerbase isn't bigger and the game is stagnant. Meanwhile CCP sits around with their thumb in their ass wondering why subscription rates are crap. You think there might be a connection?

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    1. As I said, I have a post written about this that comes off as really negative.

      But here's the sad part that may or may not make the final post: I'm increasingly convinced the EVE player base LIKES it this way. They LIKE driving new players off. +1 Internet for every new player they drive off.

      Delete
    2. As a player that has played for over five years I am absolutely certain that the playerbase likes it this way. Your take on it SHOULD BE negative. The way the system operates now, we are sacrificing the long term health of this game so that the degenerates can satisfy their primal urges. We all know the typical response, ie that people will leave if the game caters to carebears any more than it already does. Good riddance to those folks.

      Delete
    3. It might be more precise to say that they see themselves as filtering out "undeserving" players, which is the subtext behind "go back to WoW."

      There are more than a few players on the forums who see it as a service to the game.

      And there is a point in there: EVE isn't for everyone. If all you want to do is buy a 44B ISK Raven and rat in peace, well, *cough* it's a PVP game with loot drops that provide a direct incentive to other people to turn your ship into an inverted triangle. There are some people for whom a PVE shard on a game like World of Warcraft *is* better on the merits.

      But there has to be a better way to communicate that difference than what happened to this guy. Not only will it help filter out players who aren't going to like the game, it might attract more players who will.

      Delete
    4. I have to disagree with that pretty forcefully Jester, I engage in ganking on occasions and driving people out of the game is the last thing I want to do.

      Note I'm not denying that what you describe happens. Personally I think its more a combination of being paranoid about newbies promoting ideas that would ruin the game and a complete lack of tolerance for the sort of rookie mistakes not informing yourself about the game makes you make.
      Add in a healthy dose of 'I had to learn all this shit, why is it so hard for you to do it?' and I think you have it.

      Not so much 'make the newbies quit' as 'make sure the newbies understand certain ways of thinking wont be tolerated'. The problem then being the end effect is pretty much the same.

      Delete
    5. For one large segment of EVE, the attitude flows down from the top. On one hand you can think less competition for isk making activities when there are fewer players in EVE, on other hand... PvP'rs complain about blue donuts and lack of targets. Be careful what you wish for... it might come true.

      From The Mittani's CEO update, March 31 2013

      "The entire purpose of Miniluv is to wreak vengeance upon those who howl about 'nullbears' on the forums, to hunt down Unpersons, and pass the idle moments blowing up freighters which often contain everything a player possesses, knocking them out of the game entirely. Miniluv will be at the vanguard of Burn Jita 2.0 and has an inexhaustible need for gankers, bumpers, and those who can lead small groups of Ministers as they carry out their sacred duties."

      http://mabricksmumblings.blogspot.com/2013/04/burn-jita-proves-null-sec-is-broken-and.html

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    6. You mix with the wrong players, Jester.

      Delete
    7. You know, I don't even bother trying to get folks to play this game anymore. Theres already a stigma to the game. Either I must have an adoration for spreadsheets or I must be secretly a sociopath.

      Delete
    8. Everything I've read by or heard from long term players certainly makes that seem to be the case. While it's not an attitude I hold, it seems to many Eve players that you have to earn the right to play the game. It's not enough to just pay the sub and be willing to learn. It's like a terrible frat hazing, only the prize isn't free beer and sorority girls, it's internet spaceships.

      Delete
    9. I don't think EvE players like driving new players off. I think that EvE is both unique in that it is a world with consequence and a world with limited hand holding. I believe people are attracted to this and often suffer through painful lessons learning the finer points of EvE. While I support efforts to educate new players I believe that you can not fully remove these "lessons" on the freedom and occasional brutality of EvE. In the real world mistakes have consequences and EvE is more real because you can suffer. I have never come close to the heart pounding adrenaline I still feel (playing for five years) when I pvp in EvE because loss has meaning. I worry that eroding sandbox and softening the playerbase will end up destroying the game I enjoy.

      Delete
    10. "But here's the sad part that may or may not make the final post: I'm increasingly convinced the EVE player base LIKES it this way. They LIKE driving new players off. +1 Internet for every new player they drive off."

      Have you heard of the practical jokes going for rite of passage at the Russian army? Such kind of violence against the novices haves two consequences:

      - it turns the "survivors" into wannabe sadistic agressors of the next batch of novices ("as they did it to me, so I do it onto you!")
      - they only end when people start dieing over "practical jokes"

      EVE is a harsh, unforgiving game. It turns some novices into sadistic veterans willing to exploit every ounce of advantage they have hardly earned. Yet compared to RL practical jokes, it haves an advantage: killing the novices won't stop the fun. Driving players away of the game is a part of the freedom that CCP gives to players.

      And so each now and then, someone will hand out 2,000 dollars to CCP just to be scammed and scorned. That's really good word of mouth. It speaks volumes of the EVE community, but also about CCP, as all in all, it's THEIR game and that happened accordingly to THEIR rules.

      This episode would had been the greatest thing if the scammer had returned the stolen assets to the victim.

      But CCP decided, 15 years ago, that they didn't wanted a game like this. You reap what you sow, and CCP should better pray that nobody ever steps into the ugly grounds of RL consequences...

      Delete
    11. Of course EVE players like picking on the new players because they are easy targets.

      Just look at what's going on in Sendaya. Having virtually completed the blue doughnut every bored nullsec bloc in Eve has descended upon Sendaye to beat up on the new HERO coalition.

      Even Provi and Goons temporarily teamed up to shoot a HERO cap fleet the other day.

      Delete
    12. "Not so much 'make the newbies quit' as 'make sure the newbies understand certain ways of thinking wont be tolerated'. The problem then being the end effect is pretty much the same." ~Derek Castigatus

      Yeah, that's the concept i was looking for. I've done horrible things to people in low sec, that makes me wonder if i turned them off the game like ganking people who just want to have fun ratting in rattlesnakes in low sec belts with kitchen sink fits (like basic energized membranes)...or people who just want to peacefully unanchor their player owned shiny thing while piloting their carriers just sitting there waiting for the timer to tick down (back in the good ol days where it took ages)

      Delete
  14. The Rhea in Ignoitton is almost certainly an Incursion runner's gear.
    4.6 bil Mach, Basi, Scimi - not sure about the 140mil tengu though =Þ

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    1. From the loot and the drugs--not to mention the blinged-out ships, I'd say it's a wormhole resident taking advantage of a robust wormhole to Empire.

      Delete
  15. Just because it's possible to do this sort of thing to another player, doesn't mean you have to go and do it. But that's the way it is with the internet. It allows seven-stone weaklings to act like dicks and pretend they're tough guys. Just look at the average Kugu thread for example. It's.

    In fact I'm surprised that people haven't been physically attacked before at EVE events such as fanfest. I believe it's only a matter of time until something like this does happen.

    If/when it does, CCP and Eve will be screwed.

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    1. I walked around FF and EVE Vegas last year fully expecting someone to take a swing at me. Nobody did. Though Marc Scaurus may have come close. ;-)

      Delete
    2. I doubt that CCP would be screwed if someone did beat the shit out of someone over the game. CCP would likely love the publicity. Remember, Eve is real.

      Yeah, the assaulter would be banned from the game, on top of any real world consequences of beating someone. But that would be the extent of any steps CCP would take to react to such an event.

      Delete
    3. lol. NERD GOES POSTAL IN DEV OFFICES news at eleven!

      Delete
  16. Honestly, I can't find this as despicable as the rest of you. The gankers/scammers didn't steal ANY $$$ off this dumbsh*t. They blew up and or stole pixels in a video game.

    Now as for the 'victim'. He starts playing a new game he doesn't understand and decides that instead of learning about this game, and researching how it's played, he will instead throw money at it to the tune of $500 US. DUMB. Then he decides that since he lost it he will throw an additional $1600 at it. Really dumb.

    Honestly, you all point to this and say 'what kind of game do we have here if we chase all the new players away like this?'. I'll tell you what we have. This player was looking for a game where he could spend lots of RL $, buy the best gear, and win by default. HE WANTED PAY TO WIN! So no I am not sad to see him go because if this was that kind of a game, I wouldn't be playing it. Yes EVE needs help and could be more user friendly but not to the point that it becomes a pay-to-win theme park.

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    1. this guy pumped $2k into a game trying to get an advantage. if he were smarter he should have invested in a high skill character. as it was he invested in resources that were easily lost.

      he lost over 100 PLEX worth a short time after starting. if other players shouldn't take that from him where do we draw the line? 50 PLEX worth? 10 PLEX? 1 PLEX? this guy was a whale. he lost what he was prepared to invest. you think the casinos of the real world give the whales back their stakes when they lose? hell no.

      if he wasn't prepared to lose it he shouldn't have invested it.

      Delete
    2. "Yes EVE needs help and could be more user friendly but not to the point that it becomes a pay-to-win theme park." ~Snorkel

      I think we just found the COTY

      Delete
  17. Here's a thought: If they did ban scamming, would it actually be a bad thing for the people that are running the scams to leave the game? Actual scammers are probably form a small minority of the player population and there area great number of people that defend scamming as part of the sandbox but don't participate themselves. I doubt these defenders would leave the game if scamming did.

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  18. Just remember, if someone spends $2000 on our games, they end up with just as much nothing.

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  19. Ask! You shall reciece my friend! ;D

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  20. Eve is a harsh game in some respect but it depends on the people in involved. My last corp our CEO would happily stalk newbies in LS or wspace, but then he'd convo them afterward. He'd tell them how to improve their fitting, and tactics. We 3-4 guys in corp who started out as newbies we ganked. Half the time the guys we got this way were poor enough that he had to buy them their 1st battlecruiser, and skill book to be able to run sites in our wormhole. One we had to remind him not to instantly bring a bunch of valuable stuff as we could have been scamming him.

    Part of our game was killing anyone outside our corp, and circle of friends, but it was a game not a sadistic stalking of victims. If someone connected to our system and asked for safe passage to HS we'd like as not grant it and give them a bookmark. This didn't mean we wouldn't stick a bomber in their hole to hunt their PI folks tomorrow, but we wouldn't gank their haulers if we'd granted safe passage. If we connected to your hole we'd happily gank your ships, and even lay siege to your hole until you paid ransom. By we didn't want to tear down their POS, or run people out of wspace. If you jumped into our hole spoiling for a fight and lost. We'd kill your ships if we could, but if you ended up trapped in our system with no way out and no easy way for us to hunt you down. We'd give you safe passage often for free if you ask nicely and it was a fun fight.

    You can play a rough game, but it doesn't mean you have to be an asshole or forget players are people too.

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