Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Saturday, April 26, 2014

Burn it down

Another reminder: Burn Jita is running right now. Here's the current box score for those who want to keep track. You might want to stay out of there (and out of anywhere near there) if you're in a freighter or a JF or an Orca. Of course, if you kept up with in-game events, you wouldn't need me to tell you these things...

CSM8 had their sixth and final Town Hall today, and EVE Radio's DJ Wiggles was playing appropriate Burn Jita music, so I suggested this:

Not my favorite Linkin Park song, but certainly in the top ten somewhere. And the lyrics are quite appropriate!

Fly safe out there...


  1. Too bad there isn't a Burn Jita style event for capitals and super-capitals

    1. Too bad you don't realize that Orcas, Freighters, and Jump Freighters are all Capitol ships.

    2. Technically, ships that require and benefit from Capital Ships skill are capital ships.

      By that scale Rorquals are capital ships but freighters and JFs are not. Orcas certainly aren't.There's a skill book right in the game for Capital Industrial Ships and Orcas aren't part of it.

    3. But Orcas and freighters require capital ship components to build and are of enough mass to be excluded from subcapital-only things, most notably the deployable MJD. So it's all in your perspective.

    4. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capital_ship

    5. Burn carriers, dreadnaughts, supercarriers and titans! And Rorquals too!

      PS: burn every ship larger than a BS which is outside of hisec and can't travel into hisec.

    6. too bad the site (isjitaburning) includes everything, including at least one orca in nullsec... stop the fud, not every freighter lost is a freighter burned.

    7. And yet Orcas use large rigs and none of them require the Capital Ships skillbook.

    8. And yet Orcas/Freighters/etc are found under capital ships in the official ingame EVE market menu.

      Are we going to play the "and yet" game forever, or are we going to admit at some point that there are ships which are kinda in-between and stop arguing over semantics? If CCP wanted to be perfectly clear about the distinction, they would put more effort into making it clear, since they don't, why argue about it? The Gnosis is a battlecruiser which doesn't require a battlecruiser skill book, are we going to have a pointless argument about what to call it next?

  2. Ships > Capital Ships > Freighters

    Ships > Capital Ships > Capital Industrial Ships > Ore

    /me slams gavel "Case dismissed."

  3. I think the upcoming changes to industry are going to "burn Jita", and CCP, much more.

    Despite all of the yammering about how the changes are going to boost null-sec industry and be good for the game overall, it looks like it is going to cost CCP a lot of revenue. In addition to losing the casual high-sec industry players, even the null-sec industry players are looking forward to saving their money by unsubbing their high-sec industry accounts - apparently, most of them won't need those extra accounts any more, after the summer expansion.

    1. Yeah, when I read the title "Burn it down", I thought Jester was referring to CCP's apparent plans to burn the game down this summer.

      I really do think that we'll be remembering this as the "Summer of Unsubs".

      Way too many of my friends, no matter where they live to PVP, are planning to let go of their high-sec industry accounts (although they do plan to keep their PVP accounts).

    2. I think all the yammering and unsub-mongering is a result of general ignorance and a lack of capacity to truly comprehend the far reaching ramifications of the changes on a large scale, long term, time frame.

      The truth is, these are are all beneficial changes for the health and longevity of the entire New Eden experience. Chances are good that despite your irrational fear of change, these changes will not actually affect your overall game experience. If they do manage to ruin your experience, You're probably better off playing a less complex game anyways and your unsub will be mutually beneficial to all party's involved.

      But if your ego fails to allow you to accept that simple logic you can always fall back on "When ignorance overwhelms logic and reasoning with shear numbers, Changes will be made to satiate the ignorant at the expense of progress and benefit." (For the layman: If too many idiots throw a temper tantrum, everyone loses.)

      Additionally, more often than not the vocal negative majority, despite appearances, are far fewer in numbers than perceived. Despite there being what seems to be a large number of people unsubbing in reality is just an illusion based on a lack of a vocalized opposition. People who like the changes, or don't care, are far less likely to put the energy in to strive for the attention of the masses to hear their side of the story leaving those who are unhappy an inherent advantage of conviction with a lack actual support of a majority view. Having a few "Eve-Celebs" unsub won't actually impact the 500,000 subscriber count as much as you'd all like to think it will.

    3. 1. ...your unsub will be mutually beneficial...
      2. If too many idiots throw a temper tantrum, everyone loses.

      1. NO unsub is beneficial to CCPs bottom line, and that is what keeps EVE going.
      2. Define 'idiot'... from where I sit, statement #1 proves you are in that category.

      And fear not, your unsub, benefiting the game by removing someone who feels he is playing with idiots, will not even be noticed.

    4. Removal of toxic elements is always beneficial to the health of the whole.

    5. @ Anon 5:57 keep drinking that goon koolaid, I'm sure there are no side effects, apart from the loss of independent rational thought ofc.

    6. "Having a few 'Eve-Celebs' unsub won't actually impact the 500,000 subscriber count as much as you'd all like to think it will."

      Wow, someone is really out of touch with reality, if he thinks that the subscriber count is anywhere near 500,000.

      CCP was aggressive about publishing milestone sub numbers when they were going up, but they have been quiet on this topic, since DUST went live (and even then, they used the DUST numbers, added to the EvE numbers, to pump up the overall player numbers, although DUST players don't pay subs).

      PCU counts are way down, so, unless players are dumb enough to keep subscribing without playing, it is a fair indication that sub numbers have also dropped off, proportionally. I doubt that there are even 300,000 active subs in the game now.

      CCP can't really afford to lose more subscribers, of any sort.

    7. Well, CCP just laid off 12% of its staff BEFORE any unsubs hit, so they have some room left for dwindling revenues.

      In that sense, they know what they are doing -gambling on a higher, better game demographic once they get rid of all the undesired scum. Doesn't matters why, they are NOT going to save hisec, nor lowsec, nor WH.

      They've chosen to save their favorites and fuck everybody else. And maybe it makes some sense, as all in all, nullsec is the only thing no other game can do better than CCP. Why compete with Star Citizen? Why compete with Elite Dangerous? Those games are made by competent game developers. Potentially, SC and ED can wipe the floor with everything CCP could implement to hisec, lowsec or WH.

      So it is just clever to focus in EVE's uniqueness, nullsec, provided how CCP are too incompetent to make a good, well balanced game. A one-trick pony must focus on whatever it does well, right?

      The only thing that could go wrong is that, after 11 years, they may have burned out every last possible nullsec player after those players tried EVE in some other way and crashed against CCP's incompetence.

      What's worst, people who endured the EVE ordeal and became veteran players already made a choice about whether to be or not to be nullseccers.

      And as apparenty 80% of the playerbase chose to not be nullseccers, I seriously wonder where will end this Rubicon endeavour...

    8. Angry Onions, I am upset. You are horning in on my turf. You best be careful, otherwise the null sec propagandists will start targeting you.

    9. When talking about subs, it should be remembered that not all subs bring money to CCP. As you can pay your sub with PLEX, not all players are actually valuable to CCP. The ones who do pay actual money (for subs and for PLEX) are the ones who are worth anything to CCP, and I am quite sure that this category weighs even more heavily to high sec than sub count itself. By kicking these players CCP is playing with fire, as it could lead sudden and rapid loss of income.

    10. Anon. 1:15:

      That's a common misconception, PLEXed accounts do bring money to CCP as someone must buy those PLEXes from CCP before selling them at the market. And actually PLEX accounts are more profitable for CCP as a PLEX costs more than one month of subscription.

      This said, you're somehow right, as the main source for PLEX are hisec pilots and new pilots, and those are being dismissed by CCP.

      With less PLEXes added to the market, the price will go up and will drive some players out of EVE as they can't grind ISK fast enough to pay for their monthly PLEX(es). Also, supply shortage may also trigger inflation, specially when combined to the new taxation on hisec industry.

    11. "So what happens when the sledgehammers detailed in the last 4 weeks of dev blogs hit TQ in June, when a huge chunk of the player base who has no idea what is coming, react?"

      You probably will not hear much of anything.

      Contrary to popular belief by null-sec players, the majority of the high-sec players, esp. the casual players, do not vocally engage in the meta-game. They do not comment in player blogs; they do not participate in the forums; and they do not vote in the CSM elections.

      Most importantly, they do not rage-quit - they just let their subscriptions expire and leave quietly. This has already begun, in fact.

      So, all you are likely to notice will be the decline in the PCU count, over several months, as these subscriptions run out.

    12. Well, isn't people desperate?

      Some days ago, it was news that CCP registered a trademark "EVE Legion".

      Some players think it's the summer expansion.
      Some players think it's the Mobile App.
      Some players think it's the Incarna content.
      Some DUST players think it's a renaming of DUST
      Some DUST players think it's DUST for PS4/PC

      Evrybody haves faith and hope, but will CCP fulfil? If legion is one of above, will be wrong for all other who wait for Legion. And maybe is not something of above but a diferent project.

    13. If the mobile app is only a "utility" app and not a game itself, I would be very disappointed with a name like Legion.

      If it's the expansion, I will regret letting myself be intrigued by it.

      If it's Dust being renamed, I'll be neutral about it.

      If it's Incarna or dust for PC? HUZZAH!

      If it's Dust for PS4, It's yet another reason I can't play Dust...

    14. I don't know anything about high sec industry, since our corp is in null and I don't do industry, but our CEO did tell the corp members with high sec accounts, to do mining and industry, to let those accounts go, saying we won't need them any more after the summer. They are all very happy about it.

    15. I do not understand the complaints from players.

      According to my econ friends in the game, I will only need to keep 4 of my 6 EVE accounts to make the same amount of ISK that I make today, since my null sec accounts will be more productive than my high sec accounts.

      Why do players complain about saving money???

  4. I am always gobsmacked that people get killed during these events. It just baffles me that people don't occasionally pop into the EVE forums or what not to see what is going on. It is like putting a paper bag on your head and trying to zen your way across a freeway.

    1. do you need a dictionary to do a crossword?

    2. Strangely I am never surprised at the losses during a Burn....

      A huge number of players play EVE solo/casual as Industrialists... The games market is vast and intricate enough to be very fulfilling gameplay, for some, on its own and those players, I believe a rather large number all told, simply do not engage in the game the way those of us who find an interest in the meta game do.

      It may seem strange to us, but the time we spend on forums and blogs and such seems like a waste of time to them... I have spoken to a few in my travels... one really stuck in my mind though....

      Couple of years ago, when I was trying out hisec mining to see what it was really all about, I ended up chatting with a guy who was mining also... We started off cause I asked a question or 2, and after he answered he asked what my blog was about (he had read my bio worried I was a ganker or spai).

      Seems he had been playing EVE for 4 years and did not even know there were blogs about it. He said ignored the forums cause "Those are always full of 15 year olds whining and cussing." He told me all the games he ever player the forums were always just that so he didn't waste his time on em. I asked how he kept up with news about the game and stuff happening in it and the CSM and such and he said...

      "What's a CSM? ...new ship or module?"...

      He went on to say "Look it's just a GAME man, I know they post stuff about expansions and such, but that is all RP stuff isn't it? Like the 'news'... I just don't have time for all that, when the patches hit, I read the patch notes, make changes to deal with it, and ignore the rest."

      I asked if he saw the news and stuff on the login screen... he said he started the client, entered his log n pass and ignored all the rest as a waste of time.... He did say he now remembered there was stuff about CSM and that Tournament thing... "...but who cares?" he said...

      That was what I kept getting from him, and it fits with what some other solo players I have met have said...
      (1) it is a game, who cares about 'news' in a game? it's all RP and
      (2) all the other stuff (blogs/forums/MMO Magazine sites/etc.) was just a waste of time.

      Many many solo and casual MMO players play that way... and so do a lot of EVE players. And CCP doesn't realize that the silent playerbase, may just be the majority of the playerbase... and they might just be catering to the wrong group.

    3. Yeah, I think a lot of people just aren't plugged in to anything more than the basic technical details needed to continue to log in to the game. Some of that comes from a failure on CCP's part to make announcements and meta-game info interesting enough -- and *concise* enough -- for people to want to read them. They could reduce word count by a third, easily, in pretty much anything they put out.

    4. @ElRandir: That's how most players act in pretty much every game. Only small minority follow the forums. This of course means that devs are talking only with the vocal minority and develop the game accordingly. That results often in game imbalances which end up driving away the silent majority. I've seen this happen in other games and I fully expect this to happen in EVE Online. CSM MIGHT have every player's interests in their heart (I don't think so, but everything is possible), but they are always and will be a mere subsection of the vocal minority.

    5. I played for two years before I started participating in forum discussions, or reading Jester's blog.

      So, yeah, it took me that long to get interested in the meta-game.

      Fortunately, at that time, there were a lot of solo activities, and ganking high-sec players was not the CCP-sponsored sport that it is today. CCP was more interested in getting new players to join to build things up, not to tear them down.

      And, honestly, if I were to have played EvE for the first time in the recent years, I have to say that I would not have stayed.

      This isn't the same game that it was, encouraging newer players to join a community to explore and participate in buliding a sci-fi universe. It has devolved into a poorly implemented attempt at attracting FPS gamers, in which the devs feel that supporting the anti-social play of one a**hole PVP juvenile is worth more than ten "carebear" players who just want to have fun together, without trying to do so at the expense of someone else's fun in the game.

    6. @ Turmarath:

      I know that the anecdote you provided was a pretty accurate depiction of the majority of the player base. So what happens when the sledgehammers detailed in the last 4 weeks of dev blogs hit TQ in June, when a huge chunk of the player base who has no idea what is coming, react?

      You know, I think I should run for CSM 10, just so I cam point my finger at the devs' across the table from me, and say "how does it feel now, knowing that by sucking mynnna's (and the rest of goon's collective) dicks the last 30 months you have engineered yourself right into a layoff?

    7. yes, I'm sure that will make your case effectively. If only you rage and insult people enough, they'll see the light! who needs reasoned argument?

    8. "yes, I'm sure that will make your case effectively. If only you rage and insult people enough, they'll see the light! who needs reasoned argument?"

      Actually, there is plenty of evidence that this does work.

      The Summer of Rage response is one glaring example.

      And, the constant trolling by the Goons on the forums also proves to be most effective - so much so that failures like ISD Ezwal don't even remove their posts anymore. Proof, you ask? Go check out the "Building better Worlds" thread on the forums, and do a search on Weaselior's posts. He is exceptionally prolific, and damn good at trolling, and Ezwal never deletes his posts.

    9. at anon 27042014:0643 - to you mean like calling people pubbies and co-originating a pogrom a trade hub? Doesn't that qualify as a rage and insult?

  5. This CSM was very good about doing the Town Halls. Regardless of the positions you all took on different ideas and proposals from CCP, whether anyone agrees with your positions or not, you did keep the lines of communication open for most of the year you were in office. Good job on that point. Too many CSMs disappear and nobody knows where they are or what they're doing. I think you guys set the bar a little higher for future CSMs.

    1. Thanks! That was the general idea so I'm very glad some players feel it was successful.

  6. I've spent an hour or two in Jita yesterday, and I've seen over 12 ships get away easily. So either Goons are picky (or have favourites who can get away safely) or they fail once again at it ;)

    1. The Goons have maybe 200 pilots doing the ganking, it takes about 100 in Catalysts to gank a freighter. After the gank, they have to fly their pods out of Jita under heavy tidi, and wait 15 minutes for their criminal flags to clear, fly back to Jita, get stuck at the gate, fly back to their staging station in jita again under tidi, get new cats distributed, find next targetand repeat the process. Tidi affects the criminal timers, so waiting in Jita stations under 10% Tidi means the criminal tags last 150 minutes. Altogether, the can snag a freighter every 30 minutes unless they can get more of their pilots into Jita. Ironically, that can only occur when fewer people are playing, thanks to the Jita population cap.

    2. Indeed. A friend of mine made 15+ trips in and out of Jita this weekend and managed to avoid getting ganked. Yes, Goons came after him a few times and yes, he used a webbing alt. But apparently Burn Jita is a lot less dangerous than the "certain death" vibe it's credited with in the community.

  7. Not only that last night the gates were shut down totally. Not sure about today.

    1. This is deliberately done by CCP, to help the gankers. The targets get bunched up at the gates, unable to jump in or warp out, making them easy to kill. The exact same thing happened last year. It makes for better press.

      CCP was given advanced notice of Burn Jita, and had plenty of time to reinforce the node for the increased demand, so excuses of "unexpectedly high traffic" fall on deaf ears.

    2. That's not quite accurate to be fair. Jita is on its on node already so afaik it wouldn't be able to be reinforced further. It is well know that Sundays generally hit PCU highs and even outside of Burn Jita traffic control can be an issue for many players trying to get into, or even login, in Jita.

    3. Well, Jita is running permanently on a reinforced node setup, so it can't get any more hardware power... software would be a different beast, as EVE's single-threaded kernel is obsolete to the point of making baby Jesus cry, but that can't be fixed with anything less than developing EVE 2.0.

    4. This has nothing to do with player load. We see more players in null sec fleet battles.

    5. Anon. 5:04:

      Players at battles don't cause massive database traffic by juggling around market orders, each containing up to thousands of item ID tags.

    6. @Anon1157 - database traffic is handled by the database server, which exists in separate hardware from the node hardware.

  8. It is the same as it ever was. Events like Burn Jita, or, in the past, Hulkageddon, increase the chance of getting ganked significantly. Meaning your chance of dying becomes "small" instead of "very small."

    If you're the cautious type, or can't replace your freighter and it's contents, I'd say, yeah, the increased risk suggest making the trip NEXT weekend. If not, or if you weren't aware of the risk before it happened, it's WAY more likely that it's just business as usual. Goons catch a couple of dozen freighters? Well, sucks if one of 'em is yours... But hundreds of freighters still make the trip just fine.

    The only Goon griefing effort that actually had any impact was the gallente ice belt interdiction. And even there, it's hard to judge whether the actual ganks or the PR surrounding it made the bigger splash.


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