Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Thursday, April 17, 2014

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

So, Kirith Kodachi by way of The Ancient Gaming Noob has a new blog banter question out, and I am continuing to try to keep my promise of staying up with them. TAGN writes:
Write about somebody who is "space famous" and why you hate/admire them, somebody who isn't space famous but you think should be or will be, or discuss space fame in general, what it means, and how people end up so famous.
Kirith adds:
I'd like to add another take on the subject, is there a cost of being famous in EVE and if so, is it worth the price?
An old adage that I sometimes like to quote -- maybe it's even original to me -- is that if you ask someone three questions, they'll answer the one they like and ignore the other two. It was really tempting to do that here. Instead, I'm going to twist this topic and come at it from a completely different direction.

Are famous people good for EVE Online or bad for EVE Online?

On a per capita basis, EVE has more "space famous" people than any game I've ever heard of. Oh sure, there are famous Starcraft players and famous League of Legends players and famous World of Warcraft players. But compared to EVE's player base, the percentage of "famous" people -- at least within the community -- is actually remarkably high. It's a high enough percentage that it adds yet another layer in which a novice EVE player can look foolish or ignorant. In EVE, not only do you have to know the corps, the alliances, the modules, the ships, the tactics, the fleet doctrines, and the mechanics, you can be looked at is if you are stupid if you don't recognize by name EVE's famous people too.

Hell, you can practically speak by metaphor about this game if you care to, and some people do. After all, we talk about "Awoxing" as if it were a verb. If you can't follow a reference to SirMolle or The Mittani or Haargoth Agamar, you might miss a whole layer of reference to a narrative story. You'll certainly not be able to follow a single thing in the first "True Stories of EVE" comic. If you don't know who Chribba or Darknesss or Somerset Mahm are, then references to why they're important will just fly over your head. If you don't know who the good EVE tournament pilots are, you won't be able to follow tournament commentary half the time. If you don't know who the big alliance or coalition leaders are, you won't be able to keep up with EVE's politics. It goes on and on.

But -- believe it or not! -- it even goes beyond that. CCP made a specific choice to make the players the content of their game. And in so doing, they literally built space fame and the cult of personality right into the very DNA of EVE Online. You don't have to idly know these famous people to be in on the conversation. You have to know these famous people to even understand the landscape of the game that you're playing! Sure, you can choose to play EVE solo and you can choose to ignore the landscape of the game that you're playing and some people do that. But in so doing, they're never going to understand or be able to cope with how that landscape can suddenly shift underneath them without warning.

An example will suffice: Burn Jita. A lot of solo players were taken completely and utterly by surprise by this... and then they were enraged by it. And then they blamed CCP for it. How could CCP let a mere famous person shift the fundamental landscape of the game? But that's how EVE is. Again, it's built into the DNA of the game.

But of course that brings me to the ugly bit, the bit that a lot of EVE players don't like to face: most "space famous" people in EVE aren't famous. They're infamous. They're famous for being bad people, for doing bad things, for making other EVE players like the game just a little bit less. Or maybe a lot less.

When I read the original question, I couldn't help but focus on that word "admire." What space famous people do we admire? The word and the context behind it, quite frankly, struck me as a little bit puerile and naive. Don't get me wrong! I certainly don't mean to insult Wilhelm Arcturus of TAGN, who is a really smart guy. And the question is certainly interesting. But seriously: think about it. Sit down and really think about it: how many famous EVE players do you actually admire, as such? And if it is more than a tiny handful, why do you admire them?

More to the point: do you admire them? Or do you merely wish to emulate them? A lot of players have jumped into EVE over the years not because they want to play the game itself but because they want to emulate and imitate someone else who is playing the game in such a way that they want to play the game. It's imitation, not admiration. Again, it's the players that are the content driving the narrative. Space fame and/or the desire for it has almost certainly brought in more potential EVE players than CCP's actual marketing ever has. CCP -- to their credit -- recognizes this. Every time someone or something becomes famous in this game, there's CCP right there hanging a lantern over it.

So in that way, I've answered my own question: famous people are good for EVE. Mostly. Because instead of asking whether there's a cost to being space-famous to the people who are, maybe Kirith should have asked: is there a cost to the game? I've already said my piece about that bit...

Another interesting banter topic! What do you think, Dear Readers?

42 comments:

  1. Prospero. I admire those who maintain their integrity to a cause, corp or play-style without being thanked or even acknowledged for what they have brought to the gaming table.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Even Chribba. We admire him for his honesty and dedication; he's one of the most famous of the EVE crew. Why? Because he trades, and DOESN'T SCAM.

    He's famous for having access to ridiculous wealth, and not absconding with it.

    Statement enough right there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm not sure I admire Chribba, but I do respect the reputation he has built for himself, and I respect how he chooses to play EVE. I respect that he chooses to play an honest game without pushing that worldview on anybody else.

      Delete
    2. Chribba is the only "famous" person in this game that I admire. He managed to achieve his wealth and fame by being an honest broker, where in a game of sociopaths, honesty is the most valuable coin, and is more hard-earned reputation than any created by sleazebag moves done by oh so many.

      Delete
  3. My entire response to the blog banter was about people I admire. I admire them because of what they do in New Eden, or related to it. Some of them do pirate, but that's not the reason I admire them. I celebrate them for the good they've done, are doing and will do.

    I admire them most because of what they taught me about the cluster. Some of it was practical, some philosophical. I don't really want to emulate them, but I do want to learn from them. Even Poe was up there with the people I thought were important to New Eden, for exactly this reason. He was a great teacher.

    I think we can see a lot of what New Eden means to us by looking at the responses to this banter. A topic of surprising depth.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Lessee...
    Ripard Teg - Great blog writer, tournament host, and CSM delegate
    Chribba - Third party and web services
    Sugar Kyle - Low-Sec Market Maven & CSM hopeful
    Mangala Solaris - RvB, CSM delegate
    Rixx Javix - Art, Deathraces, Free-for-Alls, Pirates

    All people I admire, none of whom I really want to emulate, all who have done and will probably continue to do great things for the game and its community without generally engaging in nefarious gameplay. Sure, there are probably more high-profile bad people, but I don't care about them and probably won't remember them 10 years from now.

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  5. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.... and,

    "Great and Good are seldom the same man."
    - Winston Churchill

    "Any man can overcome adversity. If you truly want to test a man's character, give him power."
    - Abraham Lincoln

    You are really on a high moral kick lately Ripard. Now don't get me wrong, that is a dialog that needs be addressed from time to time, this is, after all a PvP centric game, combat, aggression and adversity are as built into the DNA of the game as the whole 'the players are the content' thing is...

    But it aint Fluffy Bunnies in Space man... It's Player versus Player, infamous people are gonna happen and some of them will be decent and fight the Good Fight and some... well, its a real sandbox, with real freedom, so some will be like E1, and they, well, they'll push the boundaries.

    Good for the game? Man, it's the cost of freedom.

    One last quote, and one I really live by... please, think hard on this one...

    I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
    - Robert A. Heinlein

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. “You are really on a high moral kick lately Ripard.”

      Lately? – Ripard’s always been troubled by the villainous aspects of EvE Online.

      Today’s version of that trouble is brought to us via Ripard intentionally changing the meaning of the banter from the morally neutral verb “admire” (to regard with respect or approval) to the morally loaded adjective “admirable” (deserving respect and approval). To be honest, he doesn’t use the term “admirable,” rather he just treats the term “admire” as if it was equivalent to “admirable” even though it isn’t. It’s a sadly limiting view: in Ripard’s world, one can’t admire a scoundrel’s extraordinary abilities or amusing antics because they are scoundrels and scoundrels are, by Ripard’s definitional equivalency, unadmirable. The banter asked who players hated/admired and why but Ripard, being Ripard, couldn’t answer that question. He could only entertain the question, “Who deserves respect?”

      If you want to see Ripard’s moral heavy bootedness really twist him into a cognitive pretzel, I refer you “God's justice be done” (http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2013/09/gods-justice-be-done.html) where he tries to distinguish between acceptable unethical behavior and unacceptable unethical behavior.

      I fully believe Ripard’s a decent fellow but he 1) has great difficulty examining things from outside his specific moral views which leads to 2) a tortured relationship with the villainous game he loves.

      DireNecessity

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    2. I can't decide if Dire is making fun of me or not, but he's essentially correct. I've always been a little conflicted about EVE.

      Delete
  6. I'd throw Morning Maniac into the heart of people I admire in Eve. He's quite possibly one of the greatest philanthropists to ever step foot in Eve, having founded and headed a corporation dedicated to growing the player base in a way that very few others have in the history of Eve.

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    Replies
    1. I was thinking the same thing. He's not famous anymore, but he really left a legacy to be proud of.

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    2. I think somewhere in the Eve UNI archives is a bunch of us spelling out "Thank You" to him in space.

      Delete
    3. What about Kelduum Revaan? Maniac started E-Uni, but Kelduum built it into what it is today, and then Azmo made it respectable.

      Delete
  7. Chribba and Estel Arador. Two people who built extremely important services that at least thousands of others have used.

    ReplyDelete
  8. (Offtopic)

    TurAmarth said:

    >>I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.[/i]
    - Robert A. Heinlein>>

    As if we needed any more evidence that Heinlein was an a**hole... As morality is one of those rules he may find too obnoxious to follow, poor little him.

    Just think about the fact that every last monster who ever inflicted death, horror and suffer on mankind followed that principle to the letter: HIS morality being the measure to HIS responsability according to HIM.

    Or maybe you think that our own little Erotica1 was being not-moral according to HIM?

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    Replies
    1. LOL... I love when the trolls feel the need to cry wolf.

      We all, YOU included Mr Anon, each live by this rule, even when you don't do something cause it's 'against the rules'... it is still a decision YOU are making to follow the rule. The difference is you want others to abide by your morals and rules...

      And yes, he would have felt E1 was a complete ass. Heinlein believed deeply in decency and fair treatment, in dealing with others as you would be dealt with... To say otherwise shows that you know nothing about him... but, please, feel free to wallow in your outrage. =]

      Delete
    2. Really? Heinlein's books are almost entirely about being a good person.

      "Fulfillment is life is loving a good woman ,and killing a bad man." - Heinlein.

      What he's saying is that laws and what people think dont' define his morality. He simply does what's right.

      Delete
    3. Getting pretty philosophical here, I'm always amused by people who think that "what's right" is just obvious, and that they've arrived at it all by themselves.

      Sure, you'll arrive at something, but even a brief tour of historical civilizations will remind people that there is no consensus and nothing intuitive about what is "just right." There are whole huge ancient traditions accumulated to develop and teach a long-view morality that can be counterintuitive in the immediate term.

      For starters, what is a "bad man," and what does killing him accomplish? Or is this one of those Texan "I know 'em when I see 'em" things?

      Delete
    4. Dersen you make a fine point here... Morality and Law and Right and Wrong are terms defined by each person, family, group, tribe, etc., etc. based on their specific situations and circumstances.

      Just take an honest look at how the Inuit (Eskimo to you) lived in their family/tribal groups as compared to how the Inca did.

      Before being introduced to modern western culture the Inuit had no laws as we view them... if a man killed another, it was assumed he had good reason. (I'm not kidding, it really was that way) When visiting with other family groups, very often the male guest would be expected to sleep with the hosts wife... to turn this offer down was an insult. (also true, it was an uneducated acceptance of the need for genetic diversity).

      The Inca ritualistically, and by modern standards horrifically, publicly murdered captives in religious ceremonies the whole culture fully took active part and believed in.

      By today's standards of morality and law, of right and wrong, both cultures acted in ways that we find reprehensible... but in THEIR terms they were acting fully inside their moral codes and their understanding of right and wrong and we would be seen as immoral and living wrongly by their understanding.

      There are NO definitive morals/rules/laws for all people in all times and all cultures. "I know 'em when I see 'em" is just someone saying that they understand the currently accepted morals/rules/laws of their family/tribe/group and abide by them as they want others to do. IE I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

      Within EVE, the rules & laws are set in computer code... However as regards morals....

      We are the arbiters of morality. Interestingly it seems to me that the vast majority of EvE players, from all across the globe, adhere to a mainly Western European 'code' of morals and ethics... but there is no Constitution or Bill of Rights for any of the Empires or factions in the New Eden cluster...

      "We, the Playerbase of EVE Online... In Order to form a more perfect MMO, establish Fair Play, insure domestic Aggression, provide for the common Risk to Reward Balance, promote general Warfare, and secure the Blessings of the Sandbox to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the whole of the New Eden Star Cluster...."
      ya da ya da ya da.... =]

      Delete
    5. Did you read Infinity Ziona's threads this week in general discussion? This guy was really mad about Erotica 1 too, then proceeds to go on a rant, and along the way made some very real taunting threats to many people, basically that he's going to beat people up at fanfest and elsewhere, and that if CCP punishes him more he will make a blog to get around his bans. I'm still confused why IZ repeatedly brought up talk about child porn/pedo tendencies when no one else did.

      Really? Over a video game?

      Delete
  9. Dude you don't have a higher fraction of famous people than Starcraft, it's unfair to EVE to even make that comparison. It's true that EVE has a relatively small amount of players and has fame far exceeding it's population, but starcraft has layers and layers of tournaments all over the world that people follow. And people have risen and fallen and are still worth remembering. Then you have all the casters, all the youtube personalities, all the team managers. Starcraft has 'game famous' people who don't even play Starcraft at all.

    I net most people on a place like Team Liquid would be able to name 100 people that everyone else on Team Liquid should know without even breaking a sweat. Heck I might be able to get close to that and I don't actually play the game, I mean every month there's 50 people who are watched by a minimum of 12,000 man hours.

    SC is an e-sport, all the people who are engaged in the community do nothing but watch people and learn their stories and those peoples stories get presented to us by TV crews. And there's indie pride in knowing that some masters european player is going to become the next big thing etc.

    I could believe EVE beats out all other MMOs, and even that it beats LoL (because LoL has so many people playing) because unlike those other games, the people playing EVE _are_ the game, at least to a much greater extent. But there are limits even still

    ReplyDelete
  10. Perhaps I am biased, but most of the CSM delegates haven't been bad people. Trebor, you, Ali, me, heck even mynnna isn't bad for a goon :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. mynnna is filth.

      Forgetting about their in-game activities, he and his kind are responsible for the griefing of thousands of players on a high meta level, every time they twist the game's direction into a more null sec cartel-centric game, inflicting pain on 10's of thousands, driving thousands from the game.

      Delete
    2. You are the Glenn Beck of eve dude....get a new method already.

      You might want to get off the null-sec cartel kick man. Its making you weak and soft. Mynnna is not filth. He has done more for this game than 95% of the player base.

      Cartels...hmmmm
      This is ya know, and MMO - where the coordinated efforts of the many will always trump the same level of effort of the few.

      The same works in life bro. You cannot achieve things in life or eve by youself, that others can do with teamwork. Thats why leadership qualities are so highly desired in the business world.

      These null-sec cartels are just that, coordinated groups of players who are able to achieve more than the few coordianted, and far more than the equal-sized but less coordinated.

      I played EQ1 for years. Solo you cant get the raid loot, it takes a well lead group to beat the event and in turn, everyone involved got a chance to get gear they would have never of had going the solo path. Eve is a little different, because in theory you can solo mine a whole fleet of titans. It will just take you a long time solo. But those who can work together for a common goal, will outpace the soloist always.

      The whole null-sec cartels RMTing and twisting CCP to their will is the SAME thing. Solo players & small corps can RMT (and do IMO) and they can post to CCP about the same things they want changed just like the "cartels".

      But agian, with more players and coordination, it becomes more effective and more profitable. Burn Jita is a great idea that follows well within the rules of the game and fits in perfectly with the whole eve theme.


      Credacom

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    3. That Two step feels it necessary to add the caveat "for a goon" speaks volumes about mynna's true character.

      Delete
    4. @Credacom... gods man, PLEASE don't feed the troll...

      Delete
  11. You know what the fundamental issue is? Most players have lost interest in the game itself, and the meta-game is the only interesting thing remaining to them.

    What meta-game? Trying to hurt the actual player behind the avatar, of course.

    A recent example: it is apparently no longer sufficient to kill somebody 10 vs. 1, certain players now feel the need to convo the loser after the fight and reveal a key element of the GoT plot. Gratuitously, for no other reason than to cause grief to the actual player.

    And then you get the now infamous "bonus round" sessions, same logic, all part of the same trend just taken slightly further.

    When you take a step back, who would want to subject themselves to such a hostile environment.

    As to why people lost interest in the actual gameplay? Various reasons:

    1) the game is stale, nothing has really changed since the introduction of wormholes, same old, same old. Couple tweaks here or there but nothing important in eve has been new for years now.

    2) hyper competitiveness. As a result of 1) everything is known, catalogued, explored, analysed to the nth degree. There is no emergent gameplay anymore, the sandbox has been fully explored, measured. There is no growing the sandbox, all that is left is trying to acquire an ever larger slice of the existing sandbox.

    And this is achieved by trying to squeeze out the last remaining half % here or there, exploit bugs or poorly designed features or go after the players themselves.

    Eve players are so focused on this micro universe, they lose track of the wider world but it is important to get some perspective. How competitive has Eve become? The head of the largest and more powerful alliance in game (Goonswarm) is actually "playing" eve full-time. That's right, this person took his interest in eve to the point where eve is no longer a hobby but his primary occupation. Amazing.

    3) Building or creating something in eve no longer matters anymore due to 1) and 2), destruction has become the dominant form of gameplay today and gets hailed by players and even CCP ("the most expensive battle ever" "x thousand of dollars destroyed"). Most people forget how glorious the initial days of eve were, when discovering, building and creating something (ships, outpost, or even alliances, "empires" etc) was a powerful motivator to play eve.

    There was a quote a long time ago from one of the devs mentioning a new feature they had just introduced and comparing it to giving a brick to somebody and waiting to see what the players would do with it, i.e. build a house, throw it, trade it etc. Players used to build in-game "houses" with their bricks, nowadays they will either use it as a weapon, grief others (I will buy ALL the bricks) or look for exploits. But nobody is building houses. All the houses have been built, all the variations of houses have been built.

    4) players have become too rich, in particular too many resources are currently concentrated in certain hands. When you get entire alliances providing full ship replacement programmes, for any ship, in any circumstances, what is the point? Where are the consequences? This is not Eve anymore, you might as well play one of the other PvE MMOs.

    I have been playing eve since 2004, across 0.0, empire, low-sec and I hate to see how toxic the game and the community have become. People seem to forget that eve is a game, a source of entertainment before all else.

    When the above happened to me (GoT griefing) I had to take a step back and wonder, is this an enjoyable pursuit? Is this an environment I enjoy being a part of?
    The answer was maybe 2 years ago but today .. no. Definitely no.

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    Replies
    1. Being honest, CCP is stirring up some things. They're changing well known old mechanics for others different, specially with the new Industry thing.

      Yet, the point is, when I started playing 7 years ago, I *could* undertake industry. And now it's the same. The *how* may change (and benefit the veterans as usual), but it's the same bloody thing. I didn't like it then and didn't liked it last year when i eventually gave up. No amount of changes will convince me to try industry.

      So, what else is left to do? Be assured, whatever you engage into, somebody else has been doing it for years, knows every tool and tip and trick of the trade, and he's going to stomp over you no matter how experienced you are in your own niche. Is that great? In a way it is, as EVE is all about being competitive and there's no mercy for losers.

      But when everyone is competitive, nobody can afford to not be competitive, even if the only way or the only choice they have to play the game is by not being competitive...

      Any new player who tries industry after the new expansion will find that all the good spots have the cost scaled up to All-to-5 proficency. He's gonna lose time and ISK if he tries to do it in the best places, and if he goes to the worst places... well, they're worst for a reason (as my PI friends found out with POCOs). A player just starting industry is gonna be shafted either by the environment (doing industry in a unsuitable, unefficient place) or by veterans (driving everyone away from proficent places through scalable costs).

      This is what you get when you spend 11 years teaching the same tricks to the same people. Noobs are at a loss. Even veterans are at a loss if they step out of their little island of hard-earned EVE savvy.

      And then they just can't play, or grow bored of how they play, and leave. Not being competitive is not an option in EVE, so hoozah for CCP and let's go play something else.

      Delete
    2. I know I have talked to a number of industrialists who are waiting for the rest of the blogs to hit. If the changes aren't good they are going to cancel. I am in that camp. I'm not going to log in every day to make some null sec group more ISK or to produce at low margins. I produce HUNDREDS of tech 2 minmatar ships a month and have been doing so for years on accounts that I pay for with cash. I have your attitude, I'll simply turn off the accounts and do something else with my free time.

      I kind of take it as an insult that I have been a loyal customer for years and CCP can't wait to slap me in the face by trying to make me play the game in a way based on some "vision" that one of their nerds came up with while having a tug at himself last week. I'm the customer here you fucking CCP morons, I play the game the way I want based on my vision (I thought this was a sandbox you pricks?) and if that way is not enjoyable, I'll find something else to do with my time.

      As for the original post, I don't admire people for things they do in a fucking video game. Are you people drunk? I admire people for doing things like working for charity in real life or helping the homeless or public service. I admire people for self sacrifice. My brother uses his free time to 3D print prostetic limbs for amputee children at no cost. I admire him. Kind of hard to compare some dipshit who does something anonymously in a video game to what these folks do.

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    3. @anon 7:43

      EVE iterations are notorious for being designed by and for people who does not use/like the feature being iterated. Just ask any PI who still plays the game, if you find one...

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    4. CCP is not telling you how to play the sandbox. You can still build in empire and enjoy your sandcastle all the same as before.

      Except now your castle (production operation) will not be as impressive (profitable) since the locaiton you decided to build on has become unprofitable for the land-owner (CCP).

      In an attempt for the land-owner to retain profitable operations themselfs, they have created incentives for new and exiting castle owners to relocate. These incentives will come at a cost, but will they provide enough carrot for folks to follow the string?

      Give it a try man, you might actually..... "like it" ..... and have fun you never expected.

      So you have to move locations to the new hot spot on the beach thats riskier and more of a walk to the bathrooms? Your call.

      Cred

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    5. CCP's stated goal is to move players into null sec industry and every change to industry and production has been in that direction. So please tell me again how they aren't telling me how to play their game? If my play style becomes extinct instantly upon the release of a patch how are they not doing just that?

      While I appreciate the explanation, your assumption that I haven't tried null sec industry is incorrect. I fully understand it and exactly what is going on here. CCP is YET AGAIN catering to the null sec clowns. These people have somehow managed to convince CCP that null sec has a high level of risk associated with it, while at the same time made the case that they need more players out there. You would think that the eggheads at CCP would be able reconcile those two facts and come up with a solution of BULLSHIT but let's get serious folks, they aren't dealing with a talented bench over there in that operation. Exhibit A in that regard being the departure this week of the best horse they have ever had in that particular stable.

      My ultimate point is that null sec is boring and the players who dwell in it are for the most part, completely unreliable assholes. Not everyone wants to sit on a gate in a tech 1 cruiser looking for a "good fight". Or sit in a station while a fleet of 300 people move through. I want to limit my exposure to these assholes to by only selling them their ships that they blow up, I want them to buy the shit I make. I DON'T WANT to have to engage in conversations with them on Teamspeak or join their corp or their roams or their fucking alliance full of self important ass clowns. And I am damn sure not going to answer to them. I want to sell them and their opponents ships and then stand back as they fuck, suck, lick, cornhole or do God knows what else to each other. That shouldn't require me engaging in their playstyle or rubbing elbows with them in any way. And it hasn't. But if that changes, I'll take my money and go on with my business. The bottom line is that this game needs players like me and more importantly CCP needs my money. There is no reciprocity in that relationship, I like the game but I have plenty of other options.

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    6. come to provi and be amazed, I too have been in "boring null" it sucks 40 jumps not another pilot in sight. But come to provi and every moment is another opportunity to be dropped. Blink in provi and die.

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    7. I forgot to mention to the original thread poster that he should train GoT to level V by reading all the books. Btw, Hodor ends up as the king. trollololol

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    8. Anon 10:18 said:

      "So you have to move locations to the new hot spot on the beach thats riskier and more of a walk to the bathrooms? Your call."

      If I am paying CCP to use the beach, and they do something I don't like and I quit going to their beach, it's their loss, not mine. As I can go to other beaches, but CCP can't find any more players interested in going to their beach.

      Delete
    9. The Industry changes are really only a part of the smokescreen to further Farms and Fields. The question is this: who signs up for a game to be target? The problem with Industry is that none of the skills associated with it increase your survival in the game. Just look over the requirements for Barges. Science, Industry and Astrology. Not one of these skills does a thing to defend the ship.

      1. Any industry feature must have an actual gameplay attached to it in order to exist
      2. Any industry feature must be balanced around our risk versus reward philosophy
      3. Any industry feature must be easily understandable and visible to our player base

      Comparing point one to the skills required to mine in a belt. Neither Science or Industry have a direct impact on mining. And no help in defence. Why miners the easiest the targets for bludging gank welfare types like New Order? Because all of skills needed to compete in industry do bugger all against a suicide ganking. Welcome to being Eve's punching bag.

      Now Industry requires more investment in a POS. Let me just paint yet another target on my character.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ

      I am now down to my final active character. I have since scratched off PI from the list of activities. Since each dev blog has posts a nerf to a sector of industry - I will soon abandon that activity as well.

      Delete
  12. It is the effort that I admire. The person who is more willing than I to be patient, to do research, to herd cats. So I would say I admire the effort of the ganker who tracks targets for weeks, the effort that TheMittani has put forth to build Goons, and the effort Jester puts into turning out pretty interesting posts day after day. All things I don't have the disciple to do.

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  13. Fame is a cultural product.

    CCP did not at all plan for player fame in their orginal program deisgn, lol. Thats funny.

    We the community have created the player "fame" as a result of our culture. Its full of people who have done both good and bad things in eve, just like in the real-world we have great famous people and great infamous people. Its all a matter of perspective, you decide.

    Ever notice how new MMOs dont have well crafted guide books, explaining the controls or list all the gaming functions in detail? Its a cultural thing.

    They want players to create a social culture that shares findings and tactics. They want you to have to find a player driven blog or wiki that offers info you want. Eve is this to the 10th degree.

    As a result of this very socially dependant game, people who perform great feats of social engineering (wikis, blogs, news sites, podcasts) become admired for their efforts and services to others needs.

    Now fast-forward 10 years of a game like that and you have the culture that eve has now. its pretty damn interesting.

    Cred



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  14. Fly tight, follow FC orders, be there when needed, follow primary, take squad command when it is empty, be sane, be reasonable, Fame is a by product mittens never scammed that I am aware of, furious pig never scammed, Progodlegend, didn't scam you can be famous without infamy. The most powerful person I have ever met in eve is that pilot who answered the question in a way that was understandable. Do I care if they are famous?

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  15. In a fundamentally competitive game where "everything is PvP", what's the difference between a winner and a villain?

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