Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Saturday, April 26, 2014

Picture of the week: Clever girl

You know, you really have to hand it to the new wave of Erotica 1 style bonus room instigators. They learn from their mistakes and adapt:


In that way, they're better than most EVE players. ;-)

For those not following, apparently the bonus room now has a new question in the script: "Do you feel you are being tortured, harassed, or bullied?" If you answer "yes", the bonus room ends and you lose all your stuff. You have to answer "no" to continue to have a chance to "win".

As Robert Muldoon put it in his last words, "Clever girl..."

54 comments:

  1. Actually there is a problem with this.

    It is done in Eve chat. There is a record of the question and the answer for CCP to look at. If the Answer is stated as "yes" then all that has to happen is a petition. The perpetrator gets banned, most likely the ... "victim" gets their stuff back.

    Ashina

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    Replies
    1. "If the Answer is stated as "yes" then all that has to happen is a petition. The perpetrator gets banned, most likely the ... "victim" gets their stuff back."

      Not if the scammer instantly ends the conversation if the answer is yes, which is what CCP has very clearly stated that they want to happen at that point.

      Delete
    2. If they ask the question then they are showing that they feel they might have gone over the line. If the answer is yes then they did. Even if it ends at that point they have already committed the "torture, harassment and bulling" and there is a chat log to confirm it.

      Delete
    3. "Even if it ends at that point they have already committed the "torture, harassment and bulling" and there is a chat log to confirm it."

      By your logic, if i say in chat that I feel that you have tortured me, then you have tortured me and the chat log confirms it. Sorry, that won't fly. This is exactly what CCP says they want people to do, if they ban people for doing exactly what they ask them to do, it will make the shitstorm over E1 look like a tempest in a teacup.

      Delete
  2. sigh.

    " If you answer "yes", the bonus room ends and you lose all your stuff. You have to answer "no" to continue to have a chance to "win"."

    Both you and CCP have been saying for weeks that at this point, the scam is over, the stuff has already been lost, there's no chance to win, etc--and the supposedly clear dividing line as to where a scam has gone too far is when someone keeps harassing the victim when the scam is over. Now you're still referring to this situation as if the scam isn't actually over at this point. I'm not sure you understand how much of the negative feedback you're getting from this whole mess is that people see you flip-flopping back and forth on evaluations like 'when is the scam actually over', to whatever is convenient for the side issue you're focusing on at the time. Even people who think that E1 deserved his ban see this and are likely to feel that while E1 may have got what he deserved, that this lack of clarity and consistency is still quite worrisome.

    *also, blogspot keeps eating my comments*

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    Replies
    1. Actually the scam is NOT over at this point we often try to bring up other stuff to get him to get more isk from friends, corp mates ect and give it to us. in this particular Bonus Room we got another 100 mil ISK by using this tactic right at the end then after we notified him that he lost due to Non Compliancy with the Code i talked with him for another hour and he seemed interested in learning our way of scamming and piracy and has been invited to be a new escrow agent.

      Delete
    2. Sorry, CCP and Jester said that the scam is over at this point; who am I going to trust...inebriated Icelanders, or an admitted scammer?

      Delete
    3. Mike Andrade - not sure if you're trolling or just logically-impaired.
      WE know the victim has lost all his stuff but does HE know that yet.
      If the victim thinks there's still a way to not only recover his stuff but win the "bonus" then of course he stays in.

      Delete
    4. @anon: You're not sure, but I am. The answer is no, I'm not trolling or logically impaired...but you sure are. Your concluding two sentences are true but irrelevant. CCP has defined a scam to be over when you have all the victim's stuff. Fin.

      Delete
    5. Please indicate where CCP have defined that. The scam is not over until either side concludes it, and both sides are able to do that. Until that conclusion they can continue to push for their stuff, their corps stuff, their friends stuff, and more.

      What CCP stated was that if someone has a sad you must stop, which they will now do, and the new question ensures the vicitim has a prompt to answer that. Funnily enough, if you talk to most of the victims, they will not feel harassed or tortured. Even in the case that this all boils around the victim himself stated this clearly.

      Unfortunately CCP have declined to clarify at what point people can say "This is upsetting me" leading a lot of people to not know where they stand when they blow up a ship, point the pod and the victim states "I'm sad" or when a freighter is being bumped for an hour for a gank and the pilot is shrieking in local.

      Delete
  3. How bout we focus on the assholes that use recruitment scams im sure thats far more damaging to new player retention than this shit......player retention is why we care right????

    ReplyDelete
  4. Jester's always saddened that that particular actor passed away so young. His performance in Slipstream is the redeeming feature of the entire movie.

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  5. The apologists on the forum will use the disclaimer and this post as justification for the bullying that comes later, away from EVE chat.

    One of the current or former escrow agents may have just been elected to CSM9. Welcome to what may come to be called EVE: Nigerian Age.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wait, what? Who on the ballot was an "escrow agent" for that [censored by CONCORD]?

      Delete
    2. rumors has it that Psychotic Monk was involved in the Bonus Room. I'm not 100% sure if this was true

      Delete
    3. The audio is linked in his campaign thread. Watch him squirm when questioned on the subject.

      Delete
  6. I'm consistently amused that those who like the push the boundaries in MMOs think that the company has to justify its actions like a prosecutor in a court of law.

    Just ban them whenever they pop up. They're a scourge on humanity and the game.

    The amusing part is that these people only exist because of the strict rule of law in society... without it, their bullshit behavior would've gotten them beaten long ago, if not worse.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Blatant Straw Man. Saying that CCP is held to the same legal standard as a prosecutor IRL isn't something I've seen anyone actually saying, except for the numerous times I've seen people bring it up as a straw man.

      CCP's ad campaign "EVE: Be the villain." is still active, and is incompatible with your proposed remedy: "Just ban them whenever they pop up. " If they're looking to grow as a company, only one of these options is viable, and they seem to have made their choice--and they haven't chosen your proposal.

      Delete
    2. @Mike Andrade: "Be the villain" does not mean act like an asshole in real life for tear extraction and hilarity. Be the villain in game, sure - but don't act like a dick outside of the game and try to hide behind some shitty RP excuse like "oh we're just playing the villain".


      This bonus room shit can, and should, be outright banned as an unacceptable form of game play. No matter how many "outs" the perpetrators give their victims.

      Delete
  7. Do you often respond to legal moves you didn't expect within games with violence? If it were legal to do so would you assault an opponent with your fists for castling his king?

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  8. I'm not interested in playing a game with a community like this, add on top that CCP now purely drive the direction towards BlueSec and you'll see the PCU drop even more than it has been recently.

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    Replies
    1. Community like what? One that plays differently than you? Do you only want people that play the same way as you? that might get kinda boring

      Delete
    2. Because that's totally what I said.

      Don't be dumb.

      Delete
  9. or alternatively, they knew this would end up getting back to you so they decided to openly mock you.

    never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. http://i.imgur.com/vKoTjEV.png

      Actually, it was sent to him.

      Delete
  10. Try the forums, people still goad people to the verge of.. Well one can imagine, ask them to stop, they pile another 3 or 4 alts on to add to the pain.
    Isd cannot keep up and removing the posts retrospectively, does not undo the damage.
    The game is becoming even more toxic in real life than in game.........

    CCP stop marketing to the dregs of society, and you might get decent human beings actually staying

    ReplyDelete
  11. We are constantly told that EVE is a PvP game, fine, but it has become an excuse for unpleasant people to do unpleasant things to others.
    Every month, I just really wonder if I can still put up with it. But the effort I have put in just wins the argument each month.... just.
    I do NOT want carebears in space, I Love EvE, but I really would like a scumbag free game.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We are just being the villain.

      Delete
    2. But your "scumbag free game" wouldn't be EVE. It would be WoW. It would just be a constant isk grind for absolutely no reason.

      Delete
  12. It's lawfully evil and the best result you're going to get walking the line of tolerating/welcoming psychopathy within EVE, but not outside of it.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Replies
    1. It's pretty sad and pretty flimsy, especially since the question is being asked at the beginning of the bonus room, not the end... I'm not sure it would stop CCP from banning people in the future.

      Delete
  14. Thanks for the apt recollection:
    http://youtu.be/x_kH6Rx9aZU

    ReplyDelete
  15. I was present for the full bonus room, and no - the question regarding if the player ever felt harassed or threatened or bullied in any way was not asked at the beginning of the room, it was asked well into the process.

    No feelings were hurt, all parties involved had a wonderful time enjoying emergent gameplay, and the lucky winner is well on his way to being a Escrow Agent himself. Songs were sung, internet spaceships were exploded, laughter was had, and everyone involved was a fully consenting adult.

    ReplyDelete
  16. In jurisprudence, duress or coercion refers to a situation whereby a person performs an act as a result of violence, threat or other pressure against the person. Black's Law Dictionary (6th ed.) defines duress as "any unlawful threat or coercion used... to induce another to act [or not act] in a manner [they] otherwise would not [or would]". Duress is pressure exerted upon a person to coerce that person to perform an act that he or she ordinarily would not perform. The notion of duress must be distinguished both from undue influence in the civil law and from necessity.

    Economic or pecuniary duress. A contract is voidable if the innocent party can prove that it had no other practical choice (as opposed to legal choice) but to agree to the contract.

    The elements of economic duress
    ]1.Wrongful or improper threat: No precise definition of what is wrongful or improper. Examples include: morally wrong, criminal, or tortious conduct; one that is a threat to breach a contract "in bad faith" or threaten to withhold an admitted debt "in bad faith".
    2.No reasonable alternative (but to accept the other party's terms). If there is an available legal remedy, an available market substitute (in the form of funds, goods, or services), or any other sources of funds this element is not met.
    3.The threat actually induces the making of the contract. This is a subjective standard, and takes into account the victim's age, their background (especially their education), relationship of the parties, and the ability to receive advice.
    4.The other party caused the financial distress. The majority opinion is that the other party must have caused the distress, while the minority opinion allows them to merely take advantage of the distress.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Not clever at all...

    Demonstrates a complete lack of ability to take the punishment dished out by CCP and even worse to rub it in the nose of the CSM they blame.

    I'm sure this will end well.

    ReplyDelete
  18. At some point one has to wonder who's being griefed, the next bonus room contestant or outraged onlookers? Appears to me the purpose of the bonus room has expanded to include finding ways to continue it's performance with added dash of legalese thereby irritating those outraged by it.

    Why do you still feed the trolls?

    DireNecessity

    ReplyDelete
  19. Just give me the new space, jove or whatever without the morons. PvP sure, thats fine part of the game. The recent encouragement of antisocial selfish nasty nasty behaviour no thanks.

    Keep the new space free of them and I will jump there, one way only, in a heartbeat and close the gate behind me.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Yeah and now Jita has a replacement Ero1 scammer called Fighter Jets Guitarsolo who uses new order / code. players to validate her isk doubling. She was even asking them in the minerbumping channel (password 315) to tell people she was doubling them even though she wasn't.

    Take a look at this http://eve-live.com/p/fighter%20jets%20guitarsolo (copy/paste) Notice all the new order / code players she is doubling? Also DJentropy Ovaert? Again a new order / code supporter. He even went into the official Eve Forums and pretended to be ISK doubled in an attempt to promote her.

    So we get rid of one scammer and get one now with no ethics at all.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So, wait - this is a game where people sometimes scam other people using classic confidence man scams, and using friends who stand to profit from the experience to validate the scammer and make them appear more legitimate in the eyes of the mark? TELL US MORE ABOUT THIS EXCITING NEWS!

      Fascinating. This has never happened before in all of EVE history. I'm sure Figher Jets Guitarsolo and this DJentropy person have come up with something totally unique and new.

      It's also totally not against the rules of this wonderful game at all, which is why I continue to pay for three accounts. I don't want World Of Warcraft in space - I want a dark, harsh, brutal game where all sorts of nefarious things happen. So does CCP. It's what EVE is known for. It's not for everyone, but for those who enjoy not having their hands held and walked through the themepark, it's a pretty awesome thing :)

      Delete
  21. Anyone who plays a game like that should be executed in real life with a slow and painful procedure, and in the middle the executioner should ask "are you feeling terrorized?" If the answer is yes, he should be killed instantlt. if the answer is no, the executioner should torture the retard more. Let me guess. Instantly there would be no bonusroom anymore. :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So to clarify, you have serious psychological issues leading you to feel that in game actions require physical torture and death as a punishment, and you think that the guys running the bonus room are the ones with problems?

      I think you should seek help. Seriously.

      Delete
    2. I think what retards do in the bonusroom is terrorizing people. Whatever the question or the answer is. You should have a taste of it. Also if you make a player's wife collapse with your gamestyle it is your fault not the wife's. And yes. Every action needs a reaction equal to it. In human society it does not work that way anymore. Only thats why the kind of you is still alive. Criminals shoul be treated as they did their victim.(maybe a bit worse to increase the fear factor and reduce the crimes)

      And just my oppinion. You are not even human. More like a roach. No sympathy.

      Delete
    3. Oh and one more thing. Dont come with the "im just being the bad guy" go gank ships. Go shoot other players, scam as much as you want. But then dont become a pussy and hide behind thousands of alts so you can do it more. With you people the only problem is you are pussies and dont accept any consequences. In this game that means there is no revenge, no reaction to be made, thus no real content generated. If a pirate shoots you you can chase him, or shoot back. With roaches like you in the bonusroom only CCP can take action. Which they should.

      So please. You are not a bad guy. You are just a sick criminal closer to a rodent than a human being.

      Delete
    4. lol.
      And you don;t see a problem with your behaviour right there no? You know absolutely nothing about me or any of the bonus room people beyond what their in game personas are, and you use that to make a real world personal judgement about them, and they are the ones that are the scum in this situation?

      As for the whole wife thing, she chose to get involved, and he chose to let her, he also chose not to quit the teamspeak altogether. Nobody walked into their house and forced them to do anything, and the most retarded thing is, the victim himself will attest to this. Listen to that carefully, the VICTIM doesn't have an issue with this. So again, it comes down to you casting judgement based on a very restricted scope. So again I ask, who is the one with the problem here? You are.

      And as for "hiding behind alts" the bonus room guys don;t hide behind anything, they publicly post their names. Anyone entering into the bonus room would have to do a single google search on any of them to find out everything they need to know. You on the other hand are spouting off about how people should be executed in real life under the alias "Anonymous". Good show buddy, good show.

      Delete
    5. noone cares about a roach twisting words pall. better go eat some crap as you usually do. :) noone wants to listen and noone wants to read stuff a rodent says. people just burn them with fire. :) I didnt even read what you wrote dude. :D no reason to anymore.

      Delete
    6. Actually the anonymous dude is right. :) Erotica was banned for a reason. The rest of the scum should get banned as well immediately. that's all. If you do this in real life, you get into prission for a lifetime in any decent place. if you people do this in a game you should at least get banned permanently, taking you out of a society as in real. Noone wants you to play this game with your bonus room, exept your own scum friends. why is that? because you dont just scam as regular players, you do way more than that, and there is a line between buisness and theft/robbery/terrorizing people. It was proven what you do is psychological terror. it is a fact. you cant prove it otherwise. CCP said it is, so it is since they can deny your right to play. they come up with the rules. so you terrorize people and that is not part of the game itself. but i guess it doesn't matter what people say you will never change your mind. One more reson to get rid of your kind. Kinda hilarious that all the playerbase hates you for the bonusroom not the scamming stuff, and you still want to do it. If you cant stop doing it because of reasons, then you should get rid of by CCP. Noone will miss like 100 people or so in this game when the other few hundred thousand players can play without you normally as they did until now. Took you 11 years to cross the line between being a player and a criminal.

      Delete
    7. Anyone else find it amusing that the people who are the most upset and outraged over organized scammers in a video game that allows scamming cannot spell, form a complete sentence, or make a single logical point? They also seem to be the least informed, having no connection to the mark, the scammer, or anyone else that had anything to do with the bit of emergent gameplay in the first place. I find this happens a lot when shooting people in highsec - the target will be destroyed, and give me a "Good Fight" in local, while people who had nothing to do with the situation in the first place will become enraged and shout and cry about it. It's a odd thing.

      Really. Take the post above this. Reading it is literally torture, and this person should be banned from the internet for cyber-bullying.

      Delete
    8. Maybe because even the primitive people have more moral sense than you word twisting law/rule abusing people do. And maybe because not everyone fluent in english? Maybe some people speak a way more difficult and complicated language than english? Pick one. The fact is still fact. You have zero sense of what is right and what is not. Let me tell you a little something. Laws, and rules are not a moral code. They are exactly the opposite. So the more you defend yourself with twisting words of rules and laws the more you prove you are not even human. Read some philosophy instead of laws and rules. Makes you a better person. But no. You just enjoy torture, and that cannot be changed. So you should get exiled from a society which does not want you around at all. in real life you could be taken to jail, or therapy or just could be executed by the majority. In eve the majority has no other weapon aganist you by game mechanic restrictions than to ask CCP to get you banned. And that is what people did with Erotica1 and they should continue to do with you.

      Delete
    9. Here, i'll address your entire argument in under 10 words.

      Eve is not real life. It's a video game.

      Delete
  22. +1 for the one above. This game should be risk for reward. scammers and bonusroom users crap people are just 0 risk for all the reward.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If only you had any idea what you were talking about.

      The risk is intense. At any moment you could push things too far, phrase something in the wrong way, or slip up and make a mistake that will cost you billions that you would have otherwise been able to obtain from the mark.

      Or, you could slip up and violate the EULA and not only end up failing the heist, but literally being banned from the game and losing everything. The risk is real, and intense. Careful planning, teamwork, tactics, and good perpetration are required. It's a form of PVP, of course - something that all EVE players should be at least somewhat familiar with :)

      Delete
    2. Lol where is the risk in sitting in jita 24/7 using a bot to repeat your shit nonstop, and wait for new people to fall for it? And then taking it further and torture them for fun even when you got your stolen shit already? No risk. Noone can hunt you down, take revenge. Only CCP can get rid of you and even thay does not give back the things you stole, and the emotional pain you caused. And it is a shame but only one of you creepy animals got banned...

      Delete

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