Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Monday, April 7, 2014

Your CEO was an idiot

Sometimes, you really have to admire EVE players. The Marmites declared war against Rote Kapelle last week. And frankly, I didn't think very much of it. If Marmites see freighters going through the Niarja pipe, they figure they can get some kills and they war dec the owning corp. So that's pretty much what I told everyone in Rote: don't do anything dumb with freighters for a while. The bulk of the alliance shrugged and we went on about our business. Marmites certainly weren't going to come out to Provi and fight us!

But it turns out they weren't interested in freighters. They were interested in me. Yup: me specifically. Except that I don't fly freighters and Ripard almost never goes to high sec. But the war dec was supposed to... I dunno... make me tremble or something. Yep, that's right. Marmite war-dec'ed Rote Kapelle because Rote's "CEO was an idiot" and "he got Erotica 1 banned."

Face. Palm!

The fact that I'm not the CEO of Rote Kapelle and I don't have the power to ban anyone is completely incidental, I guess...

Anyway, the "war" lasted a week and yesterday we got the standard...
CONCORD invalidates war declared by The Marmite Collective against Rote Kapelle
notification. I wonder if allll these ganks had anything to do with it? Excellent work to Orar Ironfist and Tyrus Tenebros! Tyrus lost a battleship earlier in the week setting them up... incredibly worth it. That Legion kill is my favorite.

To Marmite: sorry about that, guys...

60 comments:

  1. Huh, I'm *shocked* that you didn't bow down to Gevlon's pet mercenaries.

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    Replies
    1. Gevlon's writings on the Erotica1 issue have been, ah, interesting...

      Delete
    2. I like them though, for all his anti-social rhetoric, at his heart Gevlon is a bit of a white knighter (and would hate anyone who ever said that of him). He doesn't do it in the normal way but all of his ideas and schemes have at their heart improved quality of life for people. Like the time he tried to force newbies to make their ships gank-proof, or now when he totally supports eradicating 'bullies' but he doesn't want to do it the normal way, he wants to force them to stop

      Delete
    3. @Thomas: seriously? None of his schemes to date have been in any way successful. They've not improved anyone's lives. The guy is a buffoon and failure at everything he touches... the only thing larger than his failures is the enormous conformation bias that he has.

      Delete
  2. don't talk to me about war decs on account of E1...side issue!

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  3. I am very amused.

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  4. They had Brave wardecced for months.. then dropped it to help against RAZOR.

    Hilarious.

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  5. Simple cause and effect actually:

    Cause: Ripard writes inflammatory blog post to rile up the community.

    Effect: CCP is forced to play favorites and Erotica gets banned as a result of that.

    While no, Ripard did not directly ban E1, it was his actions that caused it all. It is Tora's right to war dec Rote Kapell for this reason, as per the sandbox.

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    Replies
    1. Clarification: It is Tora's right to BE ABLE TO war dec Rote Kapell for that reason.

      Delete
    2. "Simple cause and effect actually:"

      Cause: Asshole goes so far above and beyond in being an asshole that he actually manages to piss off *EVE's* community enough to get himself banned.

      Effect: Butthurt high sec gankers lose expensive ships and embarrass themselves.

      I'm not seeing a real down side.

      But seriously, how can anyone be so thick as to think talking openly about a thing is worse than doing the thing itself? If Erotica 1 actions were acceptable, then surely talking about them can cause no harm. I've certainly never got banned from people talking about the ships I've destroyed and isk I've stolen, and wouldn't even if Jester wrote a post about how awful I was. So defend Erotica 1 all you want, but don't act like Jester is the problem here.

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    3. Awwww, is the poor little voyeur going to have to go somewhere else for his jollies now E1 has been moved on to new grooming grounds?

      Delete
    4. yeah, and CFC manipulated prices on LP market, forcing CCP to play favourites and change LP payouts...

      Thats not an argument. CCP makes calls based on information, and how they want their business to thrive. Just because E1 has been under the radar doesn't mean that it wasn't a ban waiting to happen, just wasn't visible enough.

      So he got his audience, hope it was worth it.

      Delete
    5. How about I make my position clear:

      Did Ripard himself ban Ero? That's a very clear No, CCP did, there's no debate on that.

      Do I agree with what Erotica did at all? Again, that's a No, I have never listened in on the bonus room for "jollies" and I did not listen to the most recent and likely last one because I didn't want to listen to the profanity and threats. I'm actually re-subbing at some point, regardless of what happens, I just want to get back into things.

      Do I think Ripard's first post caused this? Yes, was it intended to, I doubt that a bit. More than likely it was unintentional.

      Will I say Ripard is a horrible person? Hell No. Ripard pointed out something he thought was reprehensible behavior, there's no fault in that.

      Do I think the first post was inflammatory? I think it was slightly intended to be so. With buzzwords such as "torture," "vile," "despicable," and "bullying." These are words that strike emotive chords in pretty much everyone, that's unavoidable. But the post was meant to carry across Ripard's own opinion, which was strongly negative.

      Did CCP have information about the situation? Yes they did, no doubt about that. However I think the very vocal players introduced a pressure into the situation that was inappropriate. CCP is known for at least trying to make an unbiased decision that meets the middle ground. Would this have left everyone happy on both sides? No, definitely not.

      How do I think CCP should have handled this? I think they should have drawn the line much farther back in time what behavior was or wasn't acceptable in terms of out-of-game actions. That would have prevented the entire shitstorm that was started.

      Did CCP bring it to the CSM? I highly doubt it. As has been said, CCP can ban anyone at any time for whatever reason they want. More than likely Ripard brought it to CCP. Did he do so before he wrote the first post, I don't know for sure.

      Would CCP have handled this without it being made public (as far as blogs written by CSM members go)? That I have no doubt that they would have.

      Would they have come to a conclusion everyone was happy with? That would be a no, as any decision is going to come under flak in a situation like this.

      Had this been written after CCP made a public statement and action, would I have a problem with it? I highly doubt it, as then it would just be reactionary like Burn Jita, which I would not care that much about to be honest.

      Hope that clears up my position for any trolls and anyone else that is actually going for reasonable conversation.

      Delete
    6. "While no, Ripard did not directly ban E1, it was his actions that caused it all."

      I lol'd. Pretty sure E1's actions were the root cause of all of this. Soooo funny hearing you guys constantly trying to shift any blame at all from E1. Funny yet pathetic.

      Delete
    7. @Jamie

      Where at all did I say E1 was blameless? Not once did I say there was no blame on him. How about you not put words in my mouth m'kay?

      He even admitted over on evedarklord that it was a mistake to publish it and link it on the forum, you can see it in the comments here:

      http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca/2014/04/death-of-sandbox.html

      And by my statement, I mean that Ripard's post (intentionally or not) caused the shitstorm that resulted in the ban.

      Delete
    8. Time to expand your mind. On the Chinese server Serenity there is no suicide ganking. Now they are given the same tools as Tranquillity but chose to apply them differently. This is how their community has decided the direction of their game.

      Now when Incarna was released, the voice of tranq community spoke out to declare that this was not the direction that they wanted to game to take.

      So here were again, those that have elected to voice, have mostly done so against the Bonus Room. It is not a direct this game should go in. Like Incarna, CCP has listened and taken effective action.

      You seem to have an issue with public forum being used to inform the community in this instance. James315 never intended to run for CSM. But rather used this public mechanism as a tool to advertise a rather skewed view of high-sec and the recruit adherents. But I don't see you addressing this with any ire - it just makes you look petty that you need to keep banging a drum over here.

      Delete
    9. I don't see what the Chinese server has to do with any of this. I don't have a problem with a forum being used to inform the community. It's completely fine that Ripard posted his opinions.

      Second, I don't see how James is relevant here.

      I will direct you to my thoughts on how CCP should have handled this, which was when it was first starting out, they should have said it then and there that this wasn't okay.

      What I do have a problem with here is the complete shouting down of any opposition and the complete disregard of other sides of the story that followed. Only a few other prominent members of the community bothered to interview or get into contact with Sohkar or Erotica at all.

      This is what I have a problem with, unbalanced information, that is what leads to bad decisions. THAT is my problem, THAT is my issue.

      Delete
    10. I was not happy with the decision that miner bumping is a valid tactic, and that did not even get public discussion. GMs made a blanket decision. A decision which has not been revisited despite the changes to Ice Belts and Grav Sites.

      The Bonus Room received a "open" thread on the Eve Online forums. It ran for several days without major moderation by ISDs. There was input across the player base.

      There have been many historical incidences of player activity which have been allowed to continue for sometime before.

      - webbing undocking freighters. what this does is prevent a Freighter from entering warp, even if they have a insta-warp BM. After years of this tactic being acceptable, CCP declared overnight that it was a exploit and threatened permaban on anyone caught doing it.
      - infamous boomerang gank. it happen for years before someone made the "smart move" of bragging on the forums and explaining how to it.
      - level 5 missions inside of high-sec
      - neutral logisitics not agression flagged

      there are plenty more examples of a belated response by CCP. but at least there was community input on the Bonus Room. None of the above received consideration from the player base.

      You had an opportunity to have your say, the matter is now closed.

      Delete
    11. By the way, Erotica_1 seems to be in Star Citizen now, and it seems like on of his accounts has been banned already ;-)

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    12. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    13. @Alistair Drake
      ...it was a mistake to publish it and link it on the forum...
      and
      ...Ripard's post (intentionally or not) caused the shitstorm that resulted in the ban.

      (1) No, that was not E1s mistake.
      His mistake was intentionally pushing scamming way past acceptable behavior, IVL or IRL.

      (2) Again, No... the root cause of the shitstorm was that E1s actions gave Ripard something to 'react to', IE write about.

      Proof: had E1 not done the BR to the extent that he did, Ripard would have had nothing to write about.

      OK, it’s like I tell my 11yo dottir, tell the truth, protect the innocent, and stand your ground when you are right.

      Her school has a strong anti-bully program, and she has reported a kid who has unmercifully bullied another kid (who BTW has mild Aspergers) because she knows she can push him (specifically) into a blowup which will get him into trouble, which the bully finds hilarious.

      Afterwards this bully confronted Boo and asked why she was being a tattle-tale...

      Boo stood and told her, loudly in front of the whole bus, "Was I making up anything?" "Did I lie?" she waited... the bully said nothing... "No?" "If you stop being a bully I will have nothing to SAY."

      E1 stated clearly that he did the BR the way it was done, to the logical extreme end of scamming. What he did was wrong and ALL of this comes from his actions, period.

      Delete
  6. It's pretty clear the original post was not written with an eye toward exerting any overt pressure on CCP at all. The pressure came into existence because the post - which was pretty clearly intended as matter-of-fact "hey look at this" type commentary, after which the author would move on to something else to look at - struck a chord with an unexpectedly large number of people.

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    1. That's why Jester declared victory and stopped his series of posts as soon as Erotica1 got banned?

      Because clearly that one banning got rid of all the negative behaviour in Eve.

      Delete
    2. I've come to the conclusion that Ripard Teg's actual reaction was closer to "Holy shit I didn't expect this." That said, unfortunately, it really does *look* like he declared victory afterward. I kinda wish that the post hadn't happened so he could move on to the next ones, but I'm also afraid they would have gone by with nary a ripple, sort of like, apparently, in the long run, the previous ones did.

      Delete
  7. It's still not entirely clear to me that it started with Jester's post. For all we know CCP brought it to the CSM as a "hey we'd like to ban this jackass, what do you think?" months ago. I doubt CCP banned the guy in 4 days, much more likely they spent months hand wringing over it... It's probably NDA'd though so Jester's just sucking it up like a big boy and dealing with it unlike some people.

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    Replies
    1. I think it was corbexx's CSM interview in the Cap Stable podcast where Hoots mentioned that in a yet to be published podcast, Ripard says that CCP brought the Issue to the CSM. < and Yes all these issues are probably NDA'd witch might be why Hoots hasn't posted it yet.

      Delete
    2. Don't suggest that, it will break the immersion of their butthurt, self fulfilling narrative!

      After all, we can't expect CCP to want their game to grow, what will we (the griefers) do?

      Delete
  8. Hi i read your blog daily and find it full of excellent advice and analysis about various game mechanics. Thank you!
    I want ask you about SOLO PVP. Some advices, suggested ship and everything you know about this lost-art..
    Thanks

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  9. the marmites are cool dudes, i like how they play eve. even when most of the time they act in completely irrational ways. i guess that's what the whole "collective" is supposed to mean.

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  10. "The fact that I'm not the CEO of Rote Kapelle and I don't have the power to ban anyone is completely incidental, I guess..."

    While I agree with you that wardeccing one single person who lives in nullsec is a waste of ISK; I have to differ with you on the matter of the quote above. Based solely on the evidence, it appears that you do have the power to get someone banned, and you also have the power to make marmite run away crying. In the future, you might want to reconsider the persuasive 'power' of posts attempting to demonstrate your lack of power, which actually provide clear evidence of the opposite. In specific, I refer to your upcoming post denying your ability to fly through the air clad in nothing but a towel, which contains multiple third-party videos of you flying through the air stark raving nude, riding a towel like a slightly limp magic skateboard. I advise you not to post it, or even affirm/deny its existence.

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    Replies
    1. I'm not surprised that the people who think that the evidence points to that conclusion also believe that Ripard is Rote's CEO.

      Actually, based solely on the evidence available (Mike Azariah talked about this at some length in a Podside show), CCP had approached CSM with the problem of Erotica 1 weeks before Jester brought it up. E1 had been on their radar for some time, and on the one hand they didn't approve of what he was doing, and on the other hand as long as it was disconnected from the official parts of EVE they didn't want to go there. Then E1 linked to the infamous bonus room audio in the EVE forum, and that was enough. E1 has said his "mistake" was posting that link, which just shows a complete lack of any remorse, but that is in fact how they finally banned him. Ripard was never a prime mover; if anyone is responsible for bringing E1 to CCP's attention, it's probably Goonswarm. Go dec them.

      Jester just brought the issue to the wider community's attention--not objectively, sure, but he's a blogger, not a reporter, and anyway I can't blame him for being disgusted after catching up on the whole sordid affair.

      Delete
    2. No, you can't suggest the griefers take ownership of their downfall! They must righteously blame someone else to divert blame and sustain their emotionally bankrupt existence...

      Delete
    3. I can state categorically that Ripard is not the executor of Rote Kapelle, nor the CEO of Stimulus corp, though he is welcome to do anything that doesn't violate our ROE.

      He is, however, CEO of our hearts.

      Delete
  11. Isn't Marmite's efficiency during that week against Rote 93%? Or am I reading kb wrong (not really an expert)?

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    Replies
    1. Ah, seems I do, it displayed all recent kills, not only Rote.

      Delete
    2. 93% in Marmite favor for all time. The most recent week looks to favor Rote Kapelle +782 million ISK.

      Also a question to Ripard (if you to notice this) . . . Do you happen to know if war was declared by Marmites to fulfill a contract (they are mercenaries after all) or rather, was it declared out of confused spite via Marmites alone?

      DireNecessity

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    3. Actually, upon closer inspection, the 93% statistic is a rather useless comparison since it includes murders when Marmites & Rote Kapelle were on the same side as well as when they were fighting against each other.

      DireNecessity

      Delete
  12. still lmfao at this I'd love to hear the ts3 from when they were deciding to war dec rote lmfao. its even more funny that people seem to think marmite is capable of waging war on rote......

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  13. amazing that ripard is still an in-game pussy.

    thanks for another misinformation blog

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    Replies
    1. It's amazing how long the griefer butthurt lasts. Would you like some cream for that?

      Delete
    2. Griefer butthurt, best butthurt. Feel free to quit, assholes.

      Delete
  14. Can we ban someone else to make these E1 pussies cry some more? I am finding this all to be very entertaining.

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  15. you totes got Erotica 1 banned though

    like you made a blog post calling him a sociopath and a torturer and incited a forum outrage that lead directly to his ban

    also you were and continue to be a weird mix of smug and defensive about this whole thing and nobody likes that



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    Replies
    1. Cry some more.

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    2. Dont mock him!
      Cant you see he is down with the cool kids, he said totes.
      That makes his post totes relevant
      #TotesKewl

      Delete
  16. Fuck E1 and fuck anyone that defends him on any grounds. Quite aside from the 'torture' issue (personally I think any torturous situation you're still free to walk away from should be called something more like 'abuse'), anyone that not only willingly subjects an individual to that kind of traumatic experience, but, further, ENJOYS doing so, has absolutely /NO/ place in any kind of society or community that I'd ever willingly remain a part of. That behaviour is 100% unacceptable, under ANY circumstances or conditions. Any one defending that kind of thing is just as bad, in my opinion. Why? Because even if you're not in support of that behaviour directly, you're at the very least in support of an environment where that behaviour is tolerated.

    I know it's all ones and zeroes, but even ones and zeroes are meaningless without people (that is, humans. You know. Highly social creatures. Persons. Individuals with families and oxygen requirements and interests and emotions) there to interpret or consider them.

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    Replies
    1. Can I have your stuff?

      Delete
    2. Also, I really do have to add this. The only thing that got E1 banned was the activity he engaged in. Let me argue by analogy here. What got me arrested? Was it my punching you in the face, or was it the bystander that told the police?

      Delete
    3. I think a more accurate analogy would be that a guy walked into a boxing ring that is also a viewing area for an intricate model train display because he wanted to see the trains. He was then approached by a guy wearing boxing gloves who said "if you give me 10 bucks I'll either give you 20 or punch you in the face" the first guy gave him 10 bucks and then got punched in the face.

      Then a third guy wrote a blog post about this terrible thing that happened at the boxing ring / model train display and called it torture which caused a huge outrage among certain model train enthusiasts, boxing enthusiasts and even some who appreciated both

      this outrage led the proprietors of the unique though arguable ill-considered modeltraindisplay/boxingring to ban the man who punched the model train enthusiast for life even though punching is allowable in the modeltraindisplay/boxingring as long as consent is given.


      Delete
    4. See, the thing about an analogy is that it actually has to be analogous to the event in question.

      Delete
    5. Plaster Skord:That is an awful analogy.If you're referring to scamming as a punch in the face, then you've got nothing to stand on because neither Ripard Teg or CCP have said anything against scamming, it's all been about the harassment AFTER the scam. To continue your terrible analogy about the bonus room, the problem is after stepping outside the ring of legal face punching and model trains, people start kicking you in the groin, which is inappropriate both in and outside of a boxing ring.

      Delete
  17. "No one is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle"- Jester. Truth be know it was Bush's fault. I am amazed how very few can own any fault today. There is always an EXCUSE. I was bullied, they said it would be fun, I was drunk, they made me do it, my parents didn't love me. It's always someone else's fault. (My bad) is not an apology either.

    Andy

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  18. Probably Gevlon declared you a Cfc pet. Nothing new these days.

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  19. Hey Riptard I'd Love to know how they baited the mercs, been trying it for a while now, stupid mercs are easy but "pros" tend to fade away whenever you form up.

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  20. We've been decked by them a few times and its always good fun. Thought marmite were cool guys, didn't realize they were in support of Ero1`s dickish behavior.

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    Replies
    1. As far as I know you're not a mind reader, they don't have to support the behavior that got Ero1 banned, to be against the ban itself and the circumstances around it.

      However, I believe that Ripard has basically become the poster child of the ban and those that support it, as evidenced by posts over on minerbumping and the war dec by Marmite. This is due to his blog being what brought the affair to the attention of the wider community.

      This association is going to have in-game consequences, best to just take care of them when they come along. Seems you're already doing that.

      And I won't comment on Rote Kapelle, as I don't know the association between Ripard and them to any extent.

      Delete
  21. Marmite deck everyone.
    ...yet your inflated ego says its all down to you? lol

    Nah m8 when they come for you (in game*) you will not see it coming ;)

    *Obvious statement obviously not OOG

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  22. Ah Rote Kapelle. I love how we all squeal with glee when we get a war notice. Just as the "God Squad" or whoever they are now how that one went down hehehehe....

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  23. https://zkillboard.com/detail/37999865/
    https://zkillboard.com/detail/37999875/
    https://zkillboard.com/detail/37975803/
    http://p0wnd.nl/kb/index.php/kill_detail/121425/

    Guess Rote Kapelle needs pvp lessons :)

    ReplyDelete

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