Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Thursday, May 15, 2014

Spotted on Reddit: ED-209

An EVE art team call out to the very best bad movie of all time, RoboCop:

I am now authorized to use physical force.

Speaking of the Gecko, I find it hugely ironic that in the "birthday bonus" contest that CCP had to distribute up to eight additional Geckos, it was the carebears that delivered the mail while those who prey on them didn't come anywhere near the targets.

And lest you think the targets were unfair, CCP Falcon revealed how they were set:
Actually they weren't in terms of numbers. Our Analytics guys took the figures for every week over the course of 2013 on TQ, then took the 80th percentile for all four categories to be the first goal, then the 90th for the second "stretch" goal... so the targets pretty much reflected a little above average statistics for a week on TQ and were pretty well balanced. :)
Even if you believe 80% of a full-year average is tough for PvPers to hit during what is often EVE's quietest season, the carebears were able to hit the target despite that. And yes, Falcon cheerfully trolled the PvPers about it...


  1. It was _somewhat_ unfair. Since industrialist and mining output shouldn't have very extreme peaks and valleys, whereas "ISK Destroyed" should. (Has anyone run the numbers... would putting the contest on top of Burn Jita alone have pushed us over?)

    The ratters have no real excuse, though.

    1. We needed another 650 billion to hit the smaller target, so no, Burn Jita (at around 550 killed and lost) wouldn't have done it. Would have been close, though!

    2. CCP Falcon did mention elsewhere in that Reddit thread that they'd removed big events like Asakai and B-R5RB before they calculated the average for ISK destroyed, though I don't know if they also removed Burn Jita 2. Obviously ISK destroyed will still have peaks and valleys, but they removed some of the tallest peaks before they smoothed it all.

  2. I don't find it ironic OR surprising that the only activities that were completed were the ones most conducive to AFK completion... ;)

    1. As are all the ratters in null...

    2. "Easiest to AFK"? Sure. But that's not quite the same as "Easy to AFK". Personally I'm sick of this cliche, because it pretty much died with Odyssey removing the static icebelts.

      As it stands now, hisec ore will be consumed within a few cycles of a strip miner - if you're actually AFK for 10 minutes you'll probably pop an asteroid in the first 6 (faster with boosts) and then get nothing. Ice mining is more AFK-able; you can easily fill a Retriever or Mackinaw hold off of a single iceberg before it pops (depending on the competition in the belt you may get 2 or more full loads, in fact) but once an icebelt is gone there's the 4 hour downtime before it respawns, not to mention that because of the high value (and lower input needed than ore mining) ice belts attract large numbers of miners, up to the point of roaming multibox fleets that only mine ice anoms, so competition is much much higher for ice than ore. Also not to mention that because ice is so beloved of miners, icebelts have a tendency to attract gankers.

      Outside of hisec, AFK mining is about equal in ease of AFKing to ratting, possibly a little harder due to the risk of battleships spawning while AFK.

      At the very least, hisec is pretty close to peak ice production as it stands (that is, every day close to as much ice as could possibly be mined is being mined) so you can't point to more people AFK mining ice as affecting the volume mined; if more miners stepped up to bring in larger amounts to meet the challenge, they did it by mining ore, not ice, which means they had to be paying at least some attention.

      Mining is far better characterised as requiring slow but regular interaction than as an AFK activity, and based on the miners I've talked to (and myself) it seems that far more miners do so tabbed out or on a second screen while at their keyboards than actually do it AFK.

      The stereotype of mining as an activity where a player parks themselves in a belt, switches on lasers and then goes AFK until their hold is full really needs to die, especially when it's coming from a CSM member and doubly so when that CSM rep is meant to be an industry expert.

    3. mynna,

      Warp to belt, target roids, press F1, go afk, come back, dock.

      Warp to mission / anom, eject sentries, go afk, come back, dock.

      Pretty sure the NPC bounties target is just as "conducive to AFK completion" as the mining target.

    4. @Hivemind: I'm not really sure whether to troll you for writing so many words in response to an obvious joke, or point out that, yes, mining isn't as "AFK" as its made out to be any just like the "AFK" ratters in null (mostly) aren't actually AFK either.

    5. @mynnna Could just be me but I'm not sure it's really "an obvious joke" when it's mirroring a lot of comments people have made in seriousness. Sorry I took it the wrong way though, Poe's law in action, I guess.

  3. Im gonna blame it on the fact that it seemed like half the systems in querious had a cloaky camper in them that week.

  4. More evidence that there are more mining / mission bots in New Eden when compared to few years ago. /tinfoil

    1. Not so much on the mission bots, or else the NPC bounties part would have been completed as well.

      As for mining, personally I don't see as many miners who appear to be bots mining now as I did before Odyssey removed the static icebelts, though I have to admit I have no hard numbers (the only ones who would are CCP, of course).

      The one thing that always comes to mind when I consider the possibility, however, is this: If I were going to start botting - and therefore risk having my accounts banned and assets stripped by CCP - would I rather do it with a mining bot that can make less than 20 mil/hr or would I rather do it with a mission bot that can make over 60 mil/hr?

      I have no idea if there are other factors beyond that - Cost of bot software? Difficulty of setup? Probability of detection? - but it seems that if someone is greedy enough to bot for ISK then the factor they'd most care about would be getting as much as possible, whether for their own use or for RMT, and in that case a mining bot seems like a bad choice.

    2. "If I were going to start botting - and therefore risk having my accounts banned and assets stripped by CCP - would I rather do it with a mining bot that can make less than 20 mil/hr or would I rather do it with a mission bot that can make over 60 mil/hr?"

      I think you're missing the SPs & investment required. Bots usually start off with new chars (less investment, less risk to the botter). They start mining in retrievers within a week. Even a low skill retriever bot pulls in 10mil an hour in high-sec and it doesn't take along to get them skilled up into a more proficient miner.

      To get any sort of decent income from a mission bot, firstly you're going to need access to at least lvl4 mission agents and so need standings through either grinding / paying someone else. Then you're going to need a relatively highly skilled character. These two things are a fairly significant investment in time and or ISK which can at any point can be taken away from you if you get busted.

      p.s. my first comment wasn't serious, hence /tinfoil

    3. So, we are talking about a 2 billion isk investment for a mission bot to buy a character and ship and maybe even its first plex and which will pay back within 50 hours. 50 hours farming time, realistically to hide in a power farming long weekend after that you can slow down to have a less high profile with that bot account.

      Sounds to me like a decent choice. And makes up a great bot to just run when you actually are there and just can not be arsed to actually control that multi boxed account, because you rather watch porn or chat with your buddies are do some pvp with your other account(s).

  5. Off on a slight tangent here, but I'm often taken aback as to how the EvE community separates itself into carebears and PvPers. It's like the two things are mutually exclusive - you are one or the other.

    This is far from reality. If you count market PvP, exploration PvP and as some have it, mining PvP & industry PvP, I know of no pure carebears. Even if you include these activities as being "carebear", I still only know 2 or 3 (maybe) pure carebears.

    Equally, all of the guys I PvP with do some sort of carebear activity now and again, be it hauling, exploration, mining, incursions etc. I am unaware of any who don't. Yet I can evoke a reaction from most of them if I call them a carebear.

    A perfect example of this is a friend who has two accounts with which he suicide ganks miners in high-sec, sometimes roams low-sec with me but also mines in high-sec and runs incursions. He told me that he is a PvPer and his -10 sec status & KB proves that. He certainly wasn't a carebear! So a while back I asked him how much time over the past month had he spent PvPing and how much time mining (admittedly mainly afk) and running incursions. Turned out he was 70% carebear. Even then he was not a carebear, he was a mean and evil -10 pirate and screw you for even hinting that he might be a carebear.

    This extends to the EvE community. You are either carebear or a PvPer. People pretend that the two are mutually exclusive whilst everyone knows they are not and most likely, a majority of players do both in some way or another. It's as if the whole community is suffering from some form of Dissociative Identity Disorder.

    Anyway, yes, well done carebears. Great effort and shame on you PvPers :-)

  6. Well normal that pvp didn't meet thier goals.
    No wars in null sec.... .
    Wormhole space is more empty then before oddesy... .
    And most low sec kills depend on faction warfare wich is never consistent.

  7. I'd buy that for a dollar!

  8. Robocop is a classic that doesn't deserve to be thrown in with "Good, Bad" movies

    it is every inch the movie it was intended to be, a biting satire that has been proven to be more prescient than anybody at the time could of thought possible. Basically it's not (entirely) the product of a coke binge like say Water World or Con Air and doesn't deserve to be placed in that ghetto.

  9. Dude, I stuck 7 of those Gecko Drones in my carrier, which by my figuring is the max an Archon can control bandwidth wise without drone mods. I got 1210 dps with my skills. Those drones are sick, omni damage as well.

  10. Your post not only shows who was able and willing to ramp up in-game productivity, but it hints that there's a lesson to be learned. I would hope that the lesson isn't for the players who "lost" their races (really, I think everybody won), but rather for CCP. They're running a universe built by player activity, and not just a playground for PvPers. It's a good reminder for CCP, and good that they let us see it, and know, and know *they* know.

    Yes, Robocop had a lot of greatness. Prescience, too, as a glance at today's Detroit will confirm...or anyone who can identify with Murphy, an unwilling corporate drone (see what I did there?) following secret agendas, cut off from his family, fed predigested pap and who sees the world through TV cameras. Oh, yeah; it's not just workmanlike acting and poorly-animated killer robots.

    Its dystopia looks a hell of a lot like *this* topia.

  11. Herbivores grind for their resources, so it's natural for them to respond to a Call to Grind. Predators, on the other hand, tend to focus on conserving their energy for when really good kill opportunities occur.

    1. Plus, a miner with 8 accounts has more to gain than a pvp-er with only 2.


Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.