Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Tuesday, August 30, 2011

It depends on what the definition of "is" is

For those that have forgotten, back in late June, CSM6 had an emergency summit with the CCP developers.  They were called to Iceland to discuss the massive wave of un-subscriptions hitting CCP's bottom line, and the player riots that took place in Jita, Amarr, and Rens.  These unsubs and riots regarded just three of the ten or so self-inflicted wounds that have affected CCP this year: NeX pricing, what would be sold in the NeX, and the "Gordon Gecko" issue of the Fearless internal company newsletter.

Shortly after the summit was concluded, a short statement (most of it wasted, as I posted back in July) was released, along with a superior video.  Still, we were also promised that there would be a much longer document indicating what specifically had been discussed and decided at that emergency summit.

That was two months ago.

Many of us, including myself, have been pestering CSM6 members about it, to the point where they've stopped talking about... well, about anything, really.  The only two CSM member blogs are functionally dead.  Other than a half-hearted second fireside chat and Trebor's crowd-sourcing initiative -- during which he frankly did near the absolute bare minimum amount of work to make that initiative happen -- the CSM has also apparently been dead.  The total official meeting count of CSM6's term still stands at "one".  They've made very few public attempts to reach out to the player community about anything.

"It's like all the CSM6 members have been turned into Stepford Delegates," says CSM5 Chair Mynxee on Failheap.

And the Failheap readers aren't the only ones to notice this.  The topic has come out on the EVE forums as well.  Trebor blandly stated that he recently (Friday) submitted a fifth draft of the emergency summit minutes to CCP.  Apparently, there's some disagreement about wording.  CCP Xhagen, the CSM's voice in CCP, put it this way:
Since I am the one responsible for getting the minutes out I'm the guy that is responsible for the delays.

Here is the process so far:
-I transcribed the initial text and sent to the CSM for commenting
-Having gotten it back relatively quickly I sent it to the CCP people that need to read and comment
-Sent the re-reviewed back to the CSM
-The CSM objected to many of the reviews done
-Edits have been going back and forth for a while now

It has always been the aim to release any minutes from CCP/CSM meetings with the approval of everyone that participated. Sometimes it is easy, sometimes it is not. When the matters of tone and semantics come up the best way is to simply go through it step by step and resolve the differences. And this takes time.

I realize that many are waiting for these minutes, but we want to get this right - it is just the question of finding the right 'right' that all parties can agree to. Specially when the subject is volatile and sensitive.

The main point is that we will release these minutes, but we will only release them when all parties have accepted what is being written in the minutes.
The "right right"?

two step -- alternate delegate to the CSM and currently worth about four full CSM members -- responded to this on FHC, saying "Right now, the issue that *all* of the CSM have with the minutes is that CCP made edits that we don't feel reflect what actually happened at the summit.  I'm not sure who you would blame for that, basically it is both of us holding up the minutes release at this point."

To this, all I can say is, "FFS".  CCP has clearly learned nothing from what happened in June.  In the same thread, Mittens is threatening to put away the carrot and get out the stick.  Given that's what he campaigned on six months ago, I'd say it's about time for that, yeah.

EDIT (30/Aug/2011): Rereading this piece, I come down on Trebor pretty hard, which isn't really my intent.  Like Mittens, two step, and (to a lesser extent) White Tree, at least he is doing work for the CSM.  Most of the rest of CSM6 appears worthless.  Seleene's performance, or lack thereof, is particularly disappointing.

EDIT AGAIN (30/Aug/2011): Seleene says he's getting back into the fight (see comment below) and that his absence was due to RL family issues.  Fair enough, but you've lost six months...


  1. Seleene is back in the fight now too :)http://seleenes-sandbox.blogspot.com/2011/08/im-back.html

    Looks like EVE might have a chance after all

    flame away

  2. Always makes me smile when I get quoted in your blog, Jester. Joking aside, I am quite interested to see what kind of stick Mittens decides to wield and how willing he is to crack it across CCP's backside.

  3. Which 4 full members am I worth? :)

    Some of the CSM folks are quiet, some of them have been dealing with RL stuff, but some of them just don't say much in public. That is certainly part of the job, but it doesn't mean they aren't doing anything (only person that gets that title is Prom, he has literally done nothing since getting his alternate spot)

  4. @two step: I was a *candidate*, and I can't remember the names of three of the *winners* off the top of my head. How do you think the capsuleer-on-the-street feels?

  5. Might not be a typical player, but I honestly have no clue what, if anything most of the CSM candidates have done, or who most of them are. On the other hand, I don't know what the local state legislators are doing in any given month, either, and that doesn't mean that they are not getting things done.

    The delay on the minutes is quite honestly a travesty, and suggests at this point that either the CSM or CCP are basically injecting lies into the drafts and hoping the other side will give up. My bet is on CCP, but not knowing the exact situation I can't say for sure that the CSM wouldn't try and spin things to their advantage as well. Either way, continued delay will only undermine the credibility of both parties.

    I believe Helicity offered to post the original draft of the minutes on failheap. I'm sure K.com and ENews24 would be more than happy to put those up as well.


  6. Not sure where you're getting six months from. Up until the end if June, I was a blogging / posting fool. Even when I didn't have the time, I was still keeping pace with what was being discussed. I simply could not put in the wall of texting time. I'll give you the past 6-8 weeks, but 6 months is a bit much. :)

  7. It would be really nice if the CSM would actually use the official EVE Online forums as their public forum, rather than FHC or Skype.

    Even if all they do is post "hey, we're having a discussion about how badly CCP is handling the emergency summit meeting, over in this thread on FHC." Even something trivial like "we got the minutes back from CCP, they've edited a bunch of stuff to say things that we don't think were said while we were in Iceland. So it's going back to them with our re-edits and a bunch of nasty words."

    Ripard has published more than the entire CSM put together, and he had quit the game in post-crisis torpor!

  8. @Seleene: Well, OK, five months, not six. You say it yourself on your blog today (without saying it). You weren't elected to be a follower or an also-ran. You were elected with the expectation that you'd be a leading voice.

    Be honest with yourself here: have you been?

  9. I'm still not getting where you are getting your numbers from. From the day I saw the election results at Fanfest until the end of June, I was putting as much time as possible into the CSM. At the height of the rage over Incarna and the leaks, I was easily one of the most vocal and critical members. I haven't been the least bit shy or slacking when time permitted. If you measure me being honest with myself as somehow having to equal or exceed your blogging rate (which I will never match because holy shit you write a lot), then WELP! All I can do is what I have time to do and I'm fine with my contributions thus far and plan to make the most of the future.

    I won't apologize for being head shot by RL and having to deal with some pretty heinous shit the past couple months but, to be honest, even if I had not been side-lined, about the only thing I could have done more is write some rage / bitter posts about it. Getting CCP to do much of anything in July / August is LOL anyway. It doesn't mean I / we haven't been trying though, which is why you a about to see the CSM 'wake up'. You won't have to look too hard for the part I'll be playing, I've never been good at being subtle and, these days, there is less reason than ever to play politics. I'm glad Mittens is finally ready to get his mad on,

  10. Fair enough. My complaint comes from the fact that I'm specifically *watching* the CSM... and not seeing any measurable activity. I can only imagine what the average null resident thinks of CSM6, much less the average "pubbie."

    Seeing the CSM "wake up" would be nice.

  11. Did an update this morning to help shine the light back on what's happening with those MIA Summit minutes:


  12. Aaaaaaand this is why I left EVE. Some people may be drawn to the politicking like a bug to a zapper, but I acknowledge it for what it is in this case: a futile pursuit of an equally dystopian engagement between CCP and its players/supporters/fans/whathaveya. CCP will do whatever the hell it pleases, whenever the hell it pleases. I'm not sure they'd be over sinking their own game if I didn't see constant reminders of it. The CSM is all communications and memoranda: forget being liaisons for players as they don't represent the views of most, they are just there to serve as a friendlier face to the barrage of propaganda CCP puts out. And now we don't even have that. Oh the propaganda is still there, but there's no information. They are bound by NDA's I'm sure, CCP would not be so foolish as to engage in high-level, person-to-person talks if it wasn't able to control the "tone" or the "facts".

    I took my stay with EVE to be exactly what it was: A place and time where I met a lot of intelligent folks with whom I could play OTHER games with. In essence EVE was my subscription based gaming friends-list site.


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