Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Friday, October 21, 2011

Kill of the Week: Attitude

This just made me smile:

Why?  Because it has a funny story to go with it.  I shall summarize, then we'll get to the post itself.  This player, who claims to have five million SP (and I have no reason to doubt him, based on the fit), decided to go into low-sec for a mission.  There, he ran afoul of The Tuskers, a very well-known low-sec piracy corp, who were in a fleet of shield BCs with a couple of scouts.  The Tuskers, as is their custom, demanded a ransom.  The pilot said no (more about this in a second).  The Tuskers proceeded to destroy him.

Now, the fit itself is rather awful: it's a (failed) attempt to make a drone-using Dominix cap-stable enough to run on MicroWarpdrive while running tractor beams and salvagers.  The pilot involved is not the first person to try this, but he might be the first person to fail quite this badly at it, and if he's out there reading this, I strongly encourage him to find a corp... or you know, at least find Battleclinic.

Now let's put that aside.

As I've implied several times on this blog, my job often involves hiring people, and I have a hard and fast rule when I do it.  If you've got the right mind-set and mental attitude coming into a job, I'm going to overlook a lack of training.  It's a quirk that I have.  If you're the very best at what you do, but you've got a bad attitude or a bad mind-set, that trade-off to me is not worth it.  Speaking as a manager, you're going to cause me more problems than the worth of those problems your technical aptitude will solve.  Whereas a person with a good attitude and mind-set... well, that person, I can train.

Let's look at his post in full:
Hey there, I was in 3 sec space doing a mission. I had a fleet warp in on me and request money to save my ship. First question, can someone link the site that lets me see who all killed me? So I can put them on my shit list. And second, would being in dreddit have made them not do what they did?

Edit: I had the money, but told them to shove it up their collective asses.

Edit: And sorry, I forgot the Eve sub is more active than the Dreddit sub. I'm just bummed right now that some dude named "CannibalCorpsZor" is selling my crap right now.

Let's look at it more closely:
Edit: I had the money, but told them to shove it up their collective asses.

Yes... yes.  This person... can be taught.  :-D  He's certainly got the right attitude.  It's just possible that he has a bright future in EVE.

I'll have more to say about this in a bit, but being in EVE is a constant journey, and you have to keep learning.  Your attitude about this will define your success or failure.  And life is just exactly the same way.  The instant you think you know everything about everything, and then let people know it, is the instant that some jerk like me is going to hire the know-nothing instead of you because your attitude sucks.  This person gets that, and was at least smart enough to start asking questions about why he lost his ship instead of raging that he lost his ship.

Skills count for a lot.  But mind-set and attitude count for more, because skill can be taught.


  1. no offense but that was a waste of a post bro

  2. Love this blog post. I forwarded this to Biomass Unit. Let's see if he takes it to heart.

  3. @Rixx: your opinion on this might be just a TAD biased. ;-)

    Still, I'm listening: why? Was this kill anything special from the Tusker point of view?

  4. Rixx says it's a waste of a post? Really? What about all those workout posts you make Rixx? On an Eve blog? Srsly?

  5. I don't agree, just because you have a bad personality does that mean your talent goes to waste. While I can see why that can be a problem in a corporate setting, in a public sector or self employment sector that personality is fine.

  6. @Echo: test for you. You go to the DMV. Which clerk would you like to help you. The chatty, fun, pleasant one that will take 10 minutes to fix your problem? Or the condescending Evil Queen Bitch of the DMV that will take five?

  7. @Jester
    Well, if you're a customer, you take whichever is available. The pleasant one will give you a better experience though, and you'll be more inclined to return.

  8. My biggest gripe about the attitude employee over the low competency employee is the lack of initiative. They generally force the person they work for or the customer to continually make decisions over details that their talents and ability should allow them to deal with. This isn't so much an issue of getting things wrong as with generating a huge amount of frustration. A lesser skilled / better attitude person can be managed through those details without the stress and trained into making the decisions.

    My experience with bad attitude DMV employees (or any government clerk) is that they routinely make sure to not inform you about a minor point or paperwork requirement needed so that you continually have to repeat the process... where as the friendly person tells you up front what is not right so you save time in the long run. One sees their role as avoiding a problem for them personally and the other sees it as solving a problem that is shared.

  9. Biomass Unit here, to lazy to make a real account. I made that post maaaaybe 2 minutes after I got podded. It was my first PvP loss and I was a little bummed. Also, it was a salvage fit with a hodgepodge of crap that was sitting in my hanger. Did you expect more from a guy who's been playing for a little under a month and a half?

  10. My bad, I misspoke in my earlier comment. I'm confusing Rixx with Roc...it's Roc that posts all the workout stuff on his Eve blog. I enjoy it sometimes, but I mostly just wanted to talk smack. Wrong blogger!

  11. Id have probably gone with this kill if ur gunna reference tusker kills


    though it may have had to been in last weeks kill of the week. :)

  12. Absolutely agree with you Jester, from one manager to another. It's highly important to me to have employees with a good attitude and a willingness to learn and (more importantly) a willingness to admit mistakes as soon as they happen.

    Case in point, I see it happen over and over and over in EVE with players with large, brash egos that don't lead people nearly as well as those who are fun, humble, and inclusive.

    I'm also getting back to my PVP roots and renewing some small-gang PVP. I'm LlamaBin Llama in-game (formerly OsamaBin Llama but my name got petitioned). Any suggestions of a corp to look at?

  13. I was flying a ship I wasn't man enough to satisfy, my fitting was in the "batshit crazy" zone, and my first PvP fight happened to be against a well known pirate group. I've learned my lesson from all this. "Don't undock what you don't want to lose" really hit home though. Until I can take and dish out the goods, I'm going to "train up" in some frigs in everything but nullsec. And thank you for the motivation, however backhanded it may have been. :P

  14. Jester & EchoEpsilon: I work for the US Federal Government. Evil Queen Bitch types rule the roost here -- even those of us who are "fun cheery chipper" types turn into BITTERvets, FAST. I've only been in the Gov for 4 yrs goin on 5 and I can see it starting in me, even. :-/
    Everywhere we hear and talk about "improving morale", etc, but the fact is, in the simple terms of "carrot and stick", we're out of carrots and the sticks are all broken.
    Civil Service: where the guy who does the bare minimum comes out ahead of the guy who busts his ass every day.

  15. @Jester I was not specifically talking about DMV; I was more talking about politics, forest service, government clerks, CIA/DOD/NSA type of jobs that require a certain degree over specialization of which attitude is usually non-important compared to other things like your loyalty to the job and if you can get it done.

    My biggest sticking points about corporate sector by far is the need to be optimistic all the time to the point of god damn blindness. I've been fired from maybe 5 - 6 jobs, even though I get the work done early and well, I'm a realist or pessimist to the people I work with. I'm friendly, but I also have a somewhat neutral perspective that sees things what they are, and since I'm intolerant of bullshit and kiss ass in the job sector, it makes me very unemployable.

    But I would choose to go with evil bitch, cause people who are nice creep me out. I rather slip the evil bitch a 50 and tell her do her job.

  16. As far as Tusker kills go this was run of the mill.

  17. @Biomass: no problem. ;-) Welcome to New Eden. And if you want, hit me up in-game Sunday or Monday if you see me on-line and we can talk Domi fitting strategies. I don't claim to be an expert, but I tried Domi fits while writing my L4 articles, and came up with a couple that didn't do too badly on a small budget.

  18. @Dyna: that really isn't enough info to make a suggestion. Are you looking for null, mercenary, high-sec? What time zone? What skill range?

    @Echo: fair enough. That said, even if I were hiring for public sector rather than private, I wold still go for people with a good attitude over those with a poor one. In the public sector at large, there's a huge sense of entitlement operating that often makes public sector employees hard to deal with.

    @Naoru: yep, exactly. And yet, it's altered Biomass's entire perception of EVE, and maybe even given him some goals for the game. In short, something that was no big deal for The Tuskers is probably gonna shape Biomass's entire early EVE career. ;-) And in particular, I was quite impressed with his attitude about the kill, as I specify in the last para.

    @Rixx: I therefore don't consider talking about that a waste of a post. ;-)

  19. Jester, give me the bitch and stop wasting my time with pleasant but useless clercs.

    Though most of the time bad attidue leads anyway to incompetence. So debatting about it is not worth is.

    Stil posting here is as much time as reading this blog post, something rare in your blogs, normally they are a better read.

  20. @Jester I guess I should have known you'd need more info.

    33m SP
    Gal, Min, Amarr Cruiser 5
    Recon 5, Logi 5
    BC 5, Min BC, Min BS 5
    California, USA TZ (Wut wut)

    I've really only gotten a taste of small gang and solo pvp. For the most part I've spent my time in low-sec blobs and I'm looking for a group to really engage and teach me since I've always enjoyed the support roles more than direct damage dealing. I'd prefer not to tank my sec status again but if it's with good people I'll happily take the plunge again.

    I learned a long time ago that the bad attitudes are the usually the loudest ones. It's the quiet guys that always show up and listen that you have to watch for.

    If'd you'd rather discuss this in-game than on your blog drop me a mail. LlamaBin Llama is me.

  21. @Echo: "I was more talking about politics, forest service, government clerks, CIA/DOD/NSA type of jobs that require a certain degree over specialization of which attitude is usually non-important compared to other things like your loyalty to the job and if you can get it done."
    Former Fire Apparatus Engineer for a local gov department somewhere in California -- current Acting Fire Lieutenant, US Forest Service (no, I'm not telling you which Forest or District lol). I'm the guy you're talking about -- believe me, attitudes are a big part of working along well and getting along, and making a productive work environment that doesn't compound the stress we already deal with (fires, medical aids, and traffic accidents, oh my!). The "red engine" world, with its concepts and core values of brotherhood, unity, and caring, excels in this. The "green/white engine" (USFS and DOI agencies with Fire responsibilities) does not. At all.
    Why? See below.

    @Jester: "In the public sector at large, there's a huge sense of entitlement operating that often makes public sector employees hard to deal with." BING!!!!! Steel on target. Then again, entitlement is an issue everywhere nowadays, but yes, the public sector REEKS of it, by and large. Hence the bad attitudes, bittervet syndrome, etc, and yes, poor work environments leading to piss-poor attitudes toward the "customer" (the public).

    In our defense, lots of times certain members of the public at large bring it on themselves. My job also involves law enforcement (second fiddle to the Fire role), and ages ago, in POST basic academy, I was taught that someone has the right to a lecture, or a ticket, NEVER both. So if you get caught doing some squirrelly shit and start getting a lecture, be thankful for the "attitude" -- I could just whip out the ticketbook and slam you for a few hundred dollars. I've had people try to argue when I offer "education", until I put it directly: "I'm trying to 'educate' you. Education is free. The alternative is a ticket for several hundred dollars. Were I in your shoes, I'd take the FREE education with a nod and a smile, but it's your choice."
    That way, the choice is in their hands -- sure it may be a dick move, but hey I DO play EVE. In this one instance, correlation DOES equate causation. ;-)

  22. i think you're mistaking attitude requirements for confidence and turning a blind eye to basic competence. There's been FCs i've flown with who've been paragons of attitude but who never ever fucking learn the goddamned basics day after day, and i think the mindset that Jester approves of is probably the context of why the CEOs haven't replaced said FCs.


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