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I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Wednesday, November 23, 2011

Well, that was predictable

The CCP Fleet PvP Live Event appears to be over.  How did it end?

I wasn't there(~), but it appears that Pandemic Legion jumped a super-capital fleet heavily supported by their signature heavy tackle Lokis and Proteuses into the system and murdered everyone they could get their hands on, including the bulk of the CCP fleet.

Typical.  And it presumably left PL in control of the field and raking in of dozens of PLEXes and other high-value loot items, including faction loot, dropped by the CCP ships.

Way to prove the super-capital nerf is not only needed, but doesn't go far enough, PL.  Good show, there.

CCP, now that you've seen it demonstrated into your face, how about nerfing the ability of super-caps to project power next?  I'd say you've now been given conclusive proof why this needs to happen.


  1. Erm also Jester, I think CCP want to collect that bounty you put on Darius a while back...


    What happened to no pod killing CCP?

  2. Mintchip's next vlog should be especially aggravating and annoying. :)

  3. Why put a bounty on Darius III? Because Goonswarm framed him for a crime he didn't commit? Darius is a one-man A-Team.

  4. I got over my differences with Darius III some time back. He's actually decent to chat with, though he marginalized himself rather spectacularly with that bonehead c/p to riverini.

    I originally put a bounty on Darius's head because he was ignoring all of his obligations to the CSM. Turns out I should have put that bounty on Prom, though he's now waking up to the fact that if he wants to be on CSM7, it'd be good if he actually said or did something.

  5. How does it show that the nerfes in crucible don't go far enough? That they need a nerf I agree, that the nerf doesn't go far enough is an opinion without actual fact.

  6. Live events are great for MMOs...even if it's just a small set of them performed by a couple GMs (or even a GM supervising a squad of ISDs), it'd make things a hell of a lot more fun and exciting, def a change from your daily grind (whatever that may happen to be).
    Anyways, I can imagine CCPs response to this: "Well, we were really surprised by how crazy powerful supercarriers are, so we've decided to, rather than nerf supercarriers, create a whole new ship class: the super-duper-carrier...."
    lol It'd be funny, for 5 seconds.

  7. And also predictably the big alliances that don't need a zillion more isk are the benefactors.

    Next time CCP should send multiple small gangs into low sec flagged as outlaws and/or in militias and give pirates/anti-pirates and FW players some nice drops.

    Also if they want to pop up in random L4s and drop a plex I wouldn't complain. Anything to bring the price of PLEX back down to reasonable levels.

  8. In keeping with my handle, let me propose a heretical fix to the cap/supercap problem.

    Introduce monthly maintenance costs.

    In the real world, one of the factors that tended to self-limit capital ship blobs was the fact that battleships (and to a lesser extent their heavy/super-cruiser brethren) were not only hideously expensive to build, but they cost an awful lot to maintain. The lack of any sort of maintenance cost is a fundamental flaw in most naval games (and let's face it, EVE is at its core a naval game). Sometimes the benefits of incorporating maintenance outweigh the benefits, but in the case of EVE, I would say we are sorely in need of them. Imagine what might happen to fleet sizes - and, more importantly, composition - if we all had to pay a recurring monthly cost for all these shiny boats?

    The framework for such a system might be to have maintenance costs be fixed to the size of the ship (or even the specific ship type), with modifiers that reflect activity. If a ship sits assembled in hangar, for example, and doesn't undock, the basic maintenance fee is charged. Undocking raises the fee, having the ship crated reduces the fee. Make the fee due monthly (just as we already have for corp offices, etc), but calculate based on daily activity and add it all up at the end.

    Penalties for not paying the fee could range from losing the ship entirely (not an implementation I'd recommend), to having a negative effect/bonus applied to the ship commensurate with the difference between the fee and what was actually paid. For more nuance, you could even have the system set up such that negative effects were permanent unless the shortfall (or 2 or 3 times the shortfall) was paid in addition to the regular monthly fee.

    The exact details, though, aren't the issue. Since EVE is a persistent universe, and the only limits we really have on ships are ISK and attrition, after 10 years, we need something else to help bring sanity to fleet levels and composition.

  9. Supercaps need more than a nerf; they need to die.

  10. My prediction for post-Crucible repeats of this same event: nothing will change. PL, Goons, Test and others will still hot-drop with massive capital/supercapital fleets, but next time they'll bring loads of tier 3 cruisers too. Just to rub it in to everyone's faces that they can do whatever they want and no-one can stop them, not even CCP :P

    As for CCP, they were roaming in a fleet full of Navy Apocs, supported by 2 Guardians … with no EWAR. CCP really needs to lift their game :P

    What a boost to KB efficiency that fight was!

  11. On the topic of Prom, it's hilarious how utterly useless he has been with his self imposed absence. That is, up until CCP got off their asses and suddenly people could talk about ship stats & fitting layouts again.

    I guess it's a bit of a lesson, again. CSM candidates who focus just on the detail level of topics are a waste of a vote. CCP is proving to be quite capable in going in depth with players in feedback threads, on irc, even in social media (making the "ship/fitting specialist" candidate basically redundant). To a growing degree that is even starting to happen with niche candidates (think Wormholes, and who knows, maybe even Faction Warfare). I guess CCP has learned, or is learning, that for "feedback" they need a wide as possible angle for communication & consideration.

    That does not mean candidates can be oblivious, no. It simply means that for the detail level topics CCP is learning to cover the wide base on these things. As they should.

    It does leave a function for specialist candidates to collect data, even coach awareness on topics. But that too is something CCP is starting to be more active in & with.

    If these trends of CCP's rediscovered focus on CCP / Customer synergy continue, and they provide a solid enough foundation in (properly) fearless communication, that pretty much leaves the CSM scope best served with the big picture topics, and even the function of watchdog on strategic direction. Sanity checks on direction, methods, execution.

    This winter summit is going to be fun. But CSM7 is either going to be a full specialist/niche collection in the conviction of "CCP is fixed people, we can now wiggle for influence on detail stuff" (which traditionally only results in CCP falling prey to some negative factors of eh, awesome - unfortunately) or a lot of that with a selection of vision guardians (pun intended).

    The dark awesome remains strong in CCP, even in hiding, etcetera.

  12. I'm curious - did anybody else drop Supercaps onto the event? After all, PL aren't the only ones with big ships in the game.

  13. Considering that the CSM already has:

    1.) Mittens and Vile screaming DEATHTOSUPERCAPS.

    2.) Myself screaming a slightly less extreme version of iterate / role re-vamp.

    3.) Elise (one of PL's lead FC's) and the rest of the CSM agreeing with something between 1 & 2

    ...I don't think CCP really 'learned' much tonight that they didn't already know. I am very happy that Soundwave and his crew are taking a measured and iterative response to the problem and I'm confident that they aren't going to go 'hands off' for the next three years either.

    I do believe events like tonight are excellent, however, for the CCPers that work in Art or make videos or answer the phone, etc... Nothing else promotes synergy and friendship like shooting each other in the face; it's how I've made the majority of my friends in EVE and recruited 90% of my corp. :)

    BTW, as far as loot, there were a ton of empty wrecks being emptied by Rifters and dozens of other vultures while CCP was getting hammered so I don't really see how it's possible that any one alliance benefited from this more than any other. My corp had a dozen people in Tama and none of us got a PLEX or a special shiny.

    * Note to self - fit tractor beams to Titan next time...

  14. @Druur: No. No non-PL caps of any kind on the field, as far as I've been able to learn. Until PL showed up, the biggest concentrated forces seem to have been:
    a decent-size NCdot Hellcat fleet anchored on a single Bhaalgorn (they took the brunt of the CCP attack); and,
    a very respectable GSF alpha fleet (they seem to have borne most of PL's wrath once the CCP fleet was dead).
    There also seems to have been a decent-size RvB fleet on the field, mostly in small boys.

    @Seleene: it's not that I doubt you or other PL folk that have made the same claim. It's that there are almost no wrecks of player ships carrying shiny loot. Either people made remarkably successful departures from the field with this stuff, or whomever controlled the field at the end must have taken SOMETHING home. I find it pretty hard to believe that that many Lokis and Proteuses couldn't prevent more departures. ;-) From glancing at the smaller shipwrecks, I've only been able to find one that had recognizable CCP loot, and his wasn't all that impressive.

  15. @Mara Rinn

    I believe they had ten Guardians with them, not that it helped them in the end.

    The Nanobot Accelerators on buffer fits is just @_@ though.

  16. Why do people still mention TEST as far as supercapital hotdrops go? Has anyone actually got clips of a TEST capital fleet being dropped on anything mobile?


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