Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Monday, May 28, 2012

Quote of the Week: Taking EVE too seriously

I'm gonna do a theme QOTW this week, because it was too hard to pick just one.  Instead, I'm going to do a theme: "people who take EVE too seriously."

Our first candidate is a response to the Alliance Tournament X drama that I wrote about last week.  Writing about that drama, Tyrus Tenebros on FHC says:
I guess if the tournament has turned in to who can produce the most tears through metagaming, I'm going to say so far we're looking at CCP Victor.

Hydra cries more than a ganked hulk pilot.
And if you read the EVE Online forum threads I linked last week, you know this to be true.  But if you want to see even more examples, look no farther than the Intigo and Duncan posts on the FHC thread in question.  Because there's lots and lots to be found.  So, they're my first candidates for people who take EVE too seriously.

My second candidate for people who take EVE too seriously is Oddball Six.  Oddball managed to lose a Hulk and a pod in Hulkageddon yesterday.  The Hulk was a terribad fit.  The pod was a +5 implant pod with all the trimmings.  Oddball could have taken the least interest in EVE's meta game enough to stay informed about Hulkageddon and staying docked during it.  Oddball could have been actually sitting by his keyboard so as to avoid losing his pod when his ship was destroyed.  Oddball could have even been philosophical about his loss and gone on with his life.  He chose none of those options.  Instead, he wrote a small novel badly arguing for his play-style at the expense of all other play-styles.  Among the :words: of the novel was this interesting quote...
I petition CCP to consider the policy and natural violations that the inaction to date represent, and also suggest a system of natural Consequences which may be of use in curbing such competitions like 'hulkageddon' - or at least limit them to the low- and null-sec systems where they belong.
Uhhh... OK.  Oddball seems to argue that Hulkageddon is somehow a violation of the EULA/TOS and then argues for the removal of high-sec ganking from the game.

Funnily enough, my third candidate for people who take EVE too seriously is Oddball's killer, Kaeda Maxwell.  Now of course, in the discussion between gankers and ganked, I'm going to take the position of the gankers every time.  Managing risk and occasionally getting blown up when you fail to do that or are simply unlucky is part of EVE and if you don't want to deal with it, there are other MMOs out there.  Still, I'm not sure Oddball's rant deserved a step-by-step explanation of how he died and a justification for it.  But in case you're interested in such things, Kaeda obviously took a great deal of time to provide it.
You don't however see me going onto the forums and writing some wall of text quoting the EULA to try and get CCP to remove mining from the sandbox because I don't consider it fun or entertaining, I'd appreciate it if you'd at least consider providing us 'griefers' the same courtesy.
That's probably more thought than Oddball's post deserves, but it's quite fun to read Kaeda's defense of the "griefer" play-style.  Kaeda's an extremely infrequent blogger, but the last few posts have gone into quite a lot of detail backing the points in the EVE-O post if you're interested...

Finally, I'd be remiss in a post about "taking EVE too seriously" if I didn't point to this interesting article at IGN.  It's a terrific outsider's perspective on the insane asylum that we're all spending so much time in.  Amusingly, the author manages to make pretty much every EVE player sound insane.  Even more amusingly, CCP roundly promoted the piece on Twitter and  Facebook, and it'll probably be pointed to in the next EVE Newsletter even though it makes all of us sound insane!  Writing about Fanfest, the author says...
Once a day, the CEO of CCP Hilmar Petursson stands up and gives keynote speeches in front of this massive audience, addressing players about the forthcoming changes and improvements to the game and the future vision of the company, and (almost) everything he says is met with eruptions of delighted cheering. At one point, during one of these presentations, people were literally cheering an image of a floating rock.
Emphasis mine.  So the fourth candidate for "people who take EVE too seriously" is all the rest of us.  ;-)

And yeah, I include myself.  How could I not?


  1. Insanity is in the eye of the beholder, as a member of an army my quote has always been "If you don't have something wrong with you, you shouldn't be in the army." And yes I include myself in that, who wants to go running into a place that is designed to kill you after all?

  2. You have to take EVE too seriously in order to survive, at least by the standards of other games. I would submit that EVE players are "too serious" by definition.

    1. "Seriousness" is a prerequisite to EVE. Interesting notion.

  3. Why would you NOT take something seriously if you care about it enough to spend a significant amount of your time doing it?

    Why do video games, in many peoples eyes, seem to be something you can't be serious about but hobbies such as knitting or golf or hiking or fishing or gun collecting or [insert hobby/sport that can consume large amounts of time here] are ok to be serious about.

    My wife says it's because Eve is not a real thing whereas her garden, which she spends as many hours on as I do playing Eve, is.

    Is she right?

    1. Dead wrong and you better wash her head ASAP on her belittling attitude towards YOU.

      Is her relationship with her parents/children/you not real because she can´t water or shove chemicals into it(aka fertilize)?

      EVE the "client" is just a framework of actions used to form relationships with other people.
      The big problem is when these relationships becomes abusive. Your wife denigrating this very real hobby is precariously skirting that border too, just from "the outside".

      Also she obviously doesn´t have a clue about quantum mechanics or how fraking empty that cluster of atoms actually is, she believes is a "oh so real" garden shovel. ;)

    2. It has to do with being tangible... you can see a touch a garden or her parents. And I think the stigma behind games is changing. If you care to watch a guy play Tribes:Ascend while he talks about it, this is quite possibly the best commentary on the subject I have ever heard.


      Basically, things are shifting as more people play games, and games aren't just on PC or consoles anymore. Virtually EVERYONE has a game or two on their smart phones.

  4. great post! :)

  5. I know that Kaeda Maxwell person!

    I'd be a more frequent blogger if I took EVE more seriously, but I prefer playing it over just writing about it, on like say an almost daily basis (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).
    The step by step response was going to be a blog actually but I decided I might as well just adapt it and post it on the thread.
    I was attempting humour with the jab at Oddballs real life family man story (because you know only miners have loved ones and lives away from they keyboard). Guess it didn't come across as well as I had hoped :) And I didn't want to just post some variation of 'HTFU' because there's so many of those already so I went with the lengthy step by step.
    Oh well, me justifying myself here prolly doesn't help my argument, EVE's my hobby I'm ok with taking it just a little bit serious, but only a little! :)

  6. In Eve, there is an easy way to ensure you never get blown up; Never leave your NPC hisec station.

    A harder way to ensure you never get blown up is to have in a well tanked ship within a prohibitively expensive escort fleet.

    As a carebear, I manage my risk, so I will only occasionally get blown up, and can afford to replace what I lose when it happens.

    Games without risk are merely 'interactive' movies. They exist and some are popular, but is not the market that Eve is trying to capture.

    1. "Games without risk are merely 'interactive' movies. They exist and some are popular, but is not the market that Eve is trying to capture."

      Is it me, or does that statement require that your Carebear License be revoked, because you are not sounding like the garden variety Bear.

  7. Hydra must have put in hundreds of hours of work and they have been banned in some... interesting circumstances according to the forum threads. Comparing them to a hulk pilot is slightly unfair, the comparison would be fair should they get knocked out in the first round and start crying.

    Also did you miss CCP deleting all the posts on the forums ;D

    1. Actively *deleting* posts? No, I didn't hear about that. Have more detail?

    2. On Saturday afternoon while the forum was erupting in threads various responses were made detailing Hydra/Outbreak's attempts to contact CCP and how they were ignored and asking CCP to respond to both this and the obvious bias/grudge they had against Hydra/Outbreak.

      CCP Sreegs then started posting quite heavily, managing to ignore any valid questions and in a manner that insulted and belittled not only the people asking questions but the general player base.

      After a couple of hours of this, someone higher up obviously got wind of it and told Sreegs to stop posting and threads started getting locked with many, many posts deleted, including a lot of the blue posts of a more insulting nature as well as several that were merely valid, on topic questions lacking any kind of insult.

      Most obvious thread is the one that is now locked and ~15 pages, that was originally 25 pages before a lot of it got purged. Compare and contrast the current threads on the forums with the cached eve-search versions.

      Whatever your views on the banning of Hydra/Outbreak, whether their punishment was excessive and whether supposed experts at metagaming should not have made it so easy to ban them, CCP's handling of this was head-in-the-sand, insulting their customers and mass censorship. The entire thing smacks of a 'Fearless' approach to Eve and is far more disturbing than the mere banning of last year's AT winner(s).

    3. Nothing new about CCP deleting posts.

      The forums are moderated, after all, and the moderators regularly remove posts which drift too far off-topic, particularly when they become flame wars.

      They also delete material which they consider to be inappropriate, such as discussions on game exploits, certain internal CCP activities (such as Sreegs' anti-RMT methods), racial slurs, threats to players or CCP employees, etc.

    4. If you look on eve-search both CCP and player posts were deleted. We had the nice situation of a page + of comments being deleted in the open letter to CCP thread, after the thread was locked. Surprisingly these were all posts disagreeing with CCP and the decision they made. You can argue that some of these were abusive but there were plenty of abusive messages left.

      If you ask around on the forums I'm sure some people have screenshots you can compare to the original thread. Or maybe eve-search archives them and won't change them so if that's the case feel free to compare it there.

      As for CCP, Sreegs was doing a fine job of embarrassing himself. To be fair to the guy, he made a honest mistake with the hat draw. He then deleted his post which went down as you might expect with the rest of the forums. Thats the only time I remember him doing it personally, but other CCP posts have been deleted if you are brave enough to trawl through the eve-search topics and compare them.


      This thread does however show post deletion.

  8. trololololol. of course I disprove the proposition that all of us take Eve seriously by my mere existence. And proud to do so. Someone has to do it. :)

  9. Oh, Jester, you a r e taking EVE too seriously, how else would anyone spend that much time to r e a d all the crap ton of verbal exhaust ?! Maybe, that could be an excuse, your day-time job is not challenging nor time-consuming. What ever. I am so happy that I enjoy the convenience of your summaries.

  10. I fully understand why CCP is promoting this article.

    It is very well written - one of the best outsider-articles about Eve Online I have ever read - and it DOES inspire curiosity and a desire to dip your toes into New Eden for non-initiates (check out the comments on the article). It makes the game seem unique and special. And the insanity you allude too ... seems almost appealing the way it is display.

    I'd promote it too, if i were working at CCP.

  11. you know you are taking the game too serious when you write a blog about people being too serious ;)

  12. EVE is like this massive pile of lego we get to play with and we're all building this big thingus. Only there aren't any instruction and everyone has different ideas on we're building.

    And most don't realise this.

    No wonder we're all crazy!

    1. You're thinking of Minecraft. If we did that, that would be somewhat sane. No, we're out there with bulldozers trying to drive them over other people's LEGO creations. ;-)

    2. I suppose I should have added something about limited lego pieces.

      That being said, from now on I will be thinking of EVE players as creepers. :D


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