Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Monday, October 8, 2012

Kill of the Week: Black death

Full disclosure: after spending a good portion of the weekend with Guild Wars 2, I find myself feeling kinda cynical about EVE.  You have been warned.  ;-)

Want to know how bad Black Ops are and how much contempt EVE players hold them in?  This is how bad they are:

Yeah, that's right.  Black Ops are so bad that a lot of players don't bother fitting them as anything other than haulers with a slight capability to rep the ships that they bridge when the attack is over.  For those purposes, this is a near-"perfect" fit.  All it's missing is a hull repper.  This one died because the guy at the wheel didn't look at EVE's fantastic user interface for bridging closely enough and jumped his ship instead of creating the bridge.

Here's the video of the failed bridge plus audio of the pilot dying.

Anyway, yeah.  That's how bad Black Ops are.  Might want to get on that at some point before 2014, CCP.  Start by cutting the amount of fuel BlOps need to bridge in half, then continue by increasing their bridge range by at least 50%.

So that's the kill of the week.  Still, there's two other kills also worth talking about.  First one is this one:

Rooks and Kings lost a fight this week, surprisingly enough.  And they lost huge.  This Bhaalgorn was the king of the loss-mails, easily out-stripping the value of the R&K capitals on field by a wide margin.  But then, the day before, they also launched this massive smart-bomb kill-storm and racked up 178 kills with no losses.  So I leave it to you to decide which was the bigger Rooks and Kings story this week.  ;-)

EDIT (8/Oct/2012): Here's the video of the R&K loss, from the perspective of an Red Alliance Huginn pilot.  It looks clear that RA killed the R&K fleet by switching primaries across the R&K battleships far faster than any triage carrier pilot could hope to keep up.  Overwhelming DPS and tackle that landed after the initial bridge sealed the deal.

There's one other that's also definitely worth talking about... even though it's a super-expensive gank, and even though I've talked about super-expensive ganks lots of times before.  Normally, Minmatar Faction Warfare is pushing to tier 5 every other Sunday, but for some reason known only to the people involved, they did it on Friday this weekend instead.  Maybe they were trying to avoid getting their loot ships killed.  If that was the plan, it failed utterly:

Yep, that's 50 billion ISK in one freighter.  Needless to say, there's very little in this freighter that required... you know... a freighter.  Best guess: this is a brand new player (check out the meta low slot items) who bought a freighter and a freighter pilot with his previous FW take.  I can only assume that this FW take was intended to buy this brand new player a super-carrier and alt or something.

I begin to understand the rage that incursions caused in long-time players last year.  Guys, for the record, incursion-runners weren't making anything like this amount of ISK.  This is so stupid and game-breaking I don't even know how to express how stupid and game-breaking it is.  And it's going to go on for another two months before it ends, making the pilots involved ridiculously, fabulously, ludicrously rich at the expense of players who aren't doing it.  I saw a screen shot this week that had almost a half a trillion ISK in implants in someone's hangar somewhere.

If I give up on EVE sometime in the next few months, this will be a big reason why.  I'm getting a little bit tired of being the poorest guy in the room.  Anyway, end of rant.  Let's move on to this week's dead supers.  Of which there are, big surprise...

Number of dead super-caps this week: 2

...two.  Both of them are CFC supers, and both of them died to ganks without killing anything.  Is this beginning to sound familiar to anyone else?  ;-)  Yeah, me too.  You'll therefore forgive me if my coverage is brief.  themittani.com covers their deaths in a little bit more detail if you're interested, but I'll summarize.

Both died on the 4th.  First to die was this Aeon.  Quite appropriately for his CFC heritage, he died for bacon.  The pilot had this super inside a staging POS and went to get some lunch, a BLT.  Somehow, the Aeon drifted out of the POS shields, and NCdot and Co. (these days refered to as the "Dot Bros") had a cloaked Hictor ready to pounce on him.  Dead Aeon.

Second to die, same day, same system, was this Hel.  In this case, the pilot involved kept using the same safe-spot over and over.  So it was a relatively simple matter to scan that safe-spot down and nail him by bubbling it.  The next time the Hel logged in, he found himself inside an anchored bubble.  A fleet arrived and finished him off handily.

So lots of interesting kills this week!  That Black Ops still wins for me as KOTW, though.  ;-)


  1. "He died for bacon"

    I've heard worse epitaphs and seen dumber reasons to lose an expensive ships.

  2. Jester. Get the fact straight.

    None of the supers that died the 4th was a goonswarm super.
    They are apart of the greater CFC.
    But not goons proper.

    And to make things even funnier, the guy that lost the Aeon.
    Was the same guy that stole the 184 plexes earlier this week.
    And yes, it actually happened, (been flying with that dude for over almost a year.)
    Only reason why idiots claim differently on reddit and evenews24, is apperently because some idiot in HBC tried to scam him into buying a T2 fitted titan for 120 something billion.

    But yes, he actually lost the aeon due to bacon. And it has become a frequent comment when someone looses something.
    "Did you atleast have bacon?"

    1. You're absolutely right. I've corrected the post.

  3. I agree that FW is broken, but unlike incursions it is not isk from no-where. Everything must be sold to another player to become isk.

    Incursions are simply an isk creating process. There is apparently enough isk in circulation that the market for FW items has not crashed, which is interesting.

  4. jester PLEASE PLEASE shout at ccp more to CHANGE FW DAMMIT!!

    lets hope dust 514 really becomes a -insane- incentive to spend isk and become the isk sink that it should be. but wait, in eve to tempt someone to spend you have to do it with hanging a carrot of isk. the irony.

  5. "I'm getting a little bit tired of being the poorest guy in the room. "

    Then go run some FW for a little while. Yeah I know - "boring" " can't be bothered" - the people making lots of ISK are trading the boredom now for the ISK. Honestly, props to them.

    There's a difference in the nature of the ISK being generated in FW to Incursions - and that was the root of the problem. For Incursions, the ISK was generated from Concorde, so additional ISK was being added to the game - which causes inflation - which pushes prices up for everybody.

    For FW, you're dealing with LPs, and trading them for items. The ISK comes from trading them on the market - eg from other players. This isn't causing additional inflation in the same way (it may actually be causing deflation, as some ISK is needed for the FW store - woud be nice to hear some stats from CCP.)

    If allowed to play out for long enough, eventually things with FW would settle out with the markets for the items being bought in the LP stores settling at a new - lower - price. Eventually this would balance itself out naturally. The reason we're not seeing the effects of this already, is that CCP have stated their intent to change FW, so players are buying up these items, ready to resell at a higher price once the FW changes go through.

    1. Oh trust me, I've been taking advantage of FW as much as I can. Problem is I don't have a lot of time to put into it.

    2. As to your larger point, yeah, I understand that this is taking a lot of ISK out of the economy and super long-term, that's a healthy thing. But in the short term, it's massively damaging and the people that it's impacting are the game's newer, poorer players plus the ones that aren't very well-informed about the game. In short, it's hitting any new blood EVE manages to get.

    3. "There's a difference in the nature of the ISK being generated in FW to Incursions - and that was the root of the problem. For Incursions, the ISK was generated from Concorde, so additional ISK was being added to the game - which causes inflation - which pushes prices up for everybody."

      The people that were mad about incursions largely used inflation as a pretext to hate on it. If I am remembering correctly, the largest isk faucets in the game are missions and ratting. The rage was selective, to say the least.

    4. In terms of inflation the argument as I understood it was that the old sinks were just barely enough to handle the old faucets. The incursion system added an additional 30% input into a system that was barely able to handle itself in the first place, so yes, that is the fault of incursions. When dealing with "balance" it's not the absolute size of a thing that's important, but its size relative to its counterpart. Incursions didn't come along with nearly enough isk sinks to maintain the old balance.

    5. Also the faucets from missions and ratting are much more distributed than the faucet from incursions. It was very hard for new players to get into the effective Incursion fleets, and the nature of incursions is such that only the effective fleets get the rewards. There's pretty much no barrier to entry in joining in FW, so the ISK is in theory available to any player.

  6. A lot of my love for GW2 is how it is NOT Eve - the inbuilt/encouraged co-op is so natural. I still enjoy the Eve player induced terror, too. Its a nice contrast, as are the payment models.

    1. Agreed on both counts. GW2 really has an inspired design in this regard.

  7. Talking about dead Black Ops - some -A- Black Ops attempted to jump the RvB Ganked roam on Satuday night. Although 2 of them got away, 4 died:


    There's a vid here:


    PS For anybody who doesn't know - RvB run an regular, open to *anybody* in Eve, null-sec roam. The roams are referred to as "RvB Ganked" - with the aim being to end the night Ganked by a large null-sec alliance. If you've not been to null-sec before, or taken part in a fleet, it's a great way to get a taster.

  8. "If I give up on EVE sometime in the next few months, this will be a big reason why. I'm getting a little bit tired of being the poorest guy in the room."

    Please say it ain't so! That would be a very sad day for me. This blog is easily some of the best entertainment I get all month and has been for years! I rarely stay subbed to Eve for more than 3-4 months at a time. It's been that way since 2008; I guess my Eve entertainment comes more from a spectator role than as an actual player (I wish it were different, as I'd love to be neck-deep into Eve as a player, but for a thousand reasons it just isn't so).

    That said, I totally understand where you're coming from. The current economic model is a problem in Eve (just like in real life). I think there are some real solutions to this problem though. One being decay...we need decay mechanics in Eve (ship maintenance, POS maintenance, etc...all ISK sinks). Everything in life decays, nothing lives in a pristine state forever, and changing this in Eve would be a huge positive for the economy.

    And Two...well, I'm not ready to share that one yet but it could be a big deal if implemented...it would change the entire economy in Eve for the better. I have to think that one through some more before I stick my neck out on it.

  9. I totally believe that FW freighter killmail, even though it isn't API verified. A lot of the fw farmers are that stupid.

    That guy must have been running lvl4 FW missions for about 6-8 hours a day to build up enough lp to get what he had in the freighter in the typical two weeks between cashouts. I did a quick calculation on the +5's he had and came up with about 10m LP. I mission for about 3-4 hours 4-5 times a week and get about 1.75m LP per week, so he's either spending a hell of a lot of time at the keyboard, or he found a better way of doing it than I have.

  10. Care to explain how a giant isk sink that is causing deflation of the economy both through removal of currency and increase in supply of products is game breaking?

    1. Because the people being impacted are the ones least able to afford it. Instead of pulling trillions out of the wallets of the super rich, it's pulling those trillions out of the poorest people in the game, adding a few trillionaires to the top, and further widening the gap between them.

      The deflation you're talking about isn't going to happen until next year at the earliest. In the meantime, a lot of stuff in the game is more expensive.

      To use one example, mineral prices are mostly down again which means the 25% spike in ship prices caused by mineral speculation early in the year should have ended. It hasn't. To use another example, if you have a pressing desire for a low-grade Slave set, you might want to get on that now.

    2. Low-grade slaves are likely unaffected as you can't get them with fw lp. 5% hardwirings are probably a good price though. Time to stock up for the upcoming tourny.

    3. There are so few items in the LP store that are really relevant to all of the "poorest people in the game". What really is there other than ammo and implants? These "poor" people aren't churning through fleet tempest after fleet tempest.

      If we assume that FW players have totally taken control of the implant market, you're saying that all of the isk that used to be diffused among all of the mission runners in game is now concentrated into few enough pockets that it's enough for them to maintain speculation level prices on the market in general? It seems far-fetched to me (but I've been surprised before)

    4. @Grog: Um... FW alts are taking their profits and buying things that can't be gained with LP.

      @Siiee: I'm probably not being clear. The impact all of this redistribution of ISK is to push prices on the items with lower supply. It's probably not accurate to call the people affected "poor". Middle class, maybe? If you're out running incursions or missions or doing industry for ISK and want to buy a Vindicator or Machariel, you end up competing for that item with a guy with billions of ISK at his command. What does he care if a Mach is 1.2 billion instead of 900 million? The price difference is literally only 30 minutes of work.

      What does the FW alt care that the price of freighters is heading rapidly for 2 billion ISK? Ho hum, one more night of orbiting the button.

      What does the FW alt care about 600 or 700 million ISK PLEXes? That's a whole hour of orbiting.

      But the impact is hitting lower-cost items, too.

    5. I know how that side of it works, but this isn't isk creation it's redistribution. Which means that the items that the channel for this redistribution have to be in demand enough to support that channeling of isk. If FW only supplied EAFs, you wouldn't see this same effect. The demand for EAFs just isn't enough to support a massive market shifting transfer of ISK. I feel like most of the items in the LP store fall into that same category. So are learning implants really a large enough of an isk channel to support the level of inflation that we've seen across all markets? I'm kind of surprised that the demand for learning implants hasn't peaked with injection of trillions of isk worth of super cheap ones, they've only lost about 30% of their value p/u.

  11. "I'm getting a little bit tired of being the poorest guy in the room."

    Jester, why you fail own IQ test?

    1. I don't. I just don't have the time to put into it that most participants do. Something about writing a blog, I'm thinking.

    2. I know, I am just joshing you. Still, one has to wonder what CCP was thinking.

  12. Is GW2 that good? I've seen some positive reviews, but I'd like to have the opinion of an EVE player when it comes to that game. Do you mind sharing your view of GW2?

    1. As my opinion firms up, I will definitely be writing about it. I haven't even tried the PvP aspect yet, though, and I'd like to put some time into that first.

  13. "If I give up on EVE sometime in the next few months, this will be a big reason why. I'm getting a little bit tired of being the poorest guy in the room. Anyway, end of rant."

    You don't need to be space rich to have fun in eve. And it would be very sad if you leave. But unfortunately I must agree that there is way too much income with this FW farming and T5 cash out. The new system can't come fast enough and once it is there it will take a lot of time until reserves are eliminated.
    Much like the big alliances reserves on risk-free moon-goo income.

    Be patient and may be some day there is a good balance (where ever that is).
    Until then, keep up your good mood and enjoy the game.

    1. Perhaps, however, the mere knowledge that the game is rigged against your play style tends to put a lot of people off.

  14. Stuff that breaks the game money-wise should be adressed and get first priority.

    I am thoroughly dissapointed. I feel that if these big scope issues get so little attention, what can I expect for other areas of the game that are in need of it?

    All I can make from statements, devblogs and minutes is minimal DEV investment from CCP as pretty big things like ship rebalancing, tiericide, SOV nullsec, lowsec, POSes, WIS, Professions, Technetium, and so on, won't see the light until late next year, at the very least, and keep getting pushed on and onwards to the future. I've been waiting too much since Dominion and dumping money on CCP's pockets for so little.

    I may unsub soon, like many of my online mates have.

  15. You missed an Awoxed Aeon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGuGqL8VSDQ

  16. Asking here as you don't use tweeter since a while, but you seems to check all comments :
    You bought GW2 some days ago, I would like a review from you of the game, as I'm still wondering about buying it or not given what I heard from now :)

  17. Our Blackops operations usually include several bombers (obviously) a couple of viators for the loot and ideally three or four BlackOps. One is the bridge to our target, which stays put or starts moving towards the next staging area. The others all jump with the bombers; tanked to high heaven and fit with weapons/jammers and jump portal generators to get us back home. Viators carry extra fuel and pick up the cool loot that drops off the hapless victims.

    We love doing Hotdrops, and take it seriously. Yes BlackOps have lots of problems but fitting one like the one in the KOTW... I've never heard or seen such a thing, it's appalling! It certainly deserved to die!

  18. "If I give up on EVE sometime in the next few months, this will be a big reason why. I'm getting a little bit tired of being the poorest guy in the room."

    Dude I'm planning on voting for you in the next CSM elections. You can't quit!

  19. So... the prices on FW stuff (implants, ammo) is going down, which benefits the poor players. The prices on very expensive ships (faction BSes, freighters) is going up, which leaves the poor players unaffected. Yes, I can see how the poor players are being destroyed by the FW farmers.

    I also loved how the people who don't farm FW are failing an IQ test, except for you who just don't have the time. That was gold.

  20. "Yep, that's 50 billion ISK in one freighter."

    Chump change. This weekend, I cashed in over 500B ISK of goodies, from just the last week or two of AFK plexing.

    So, yeah, perhaps FW is a little bit broken, but you might as well milk it, since CCP says that this isn't an exploit.

    1. In that case, I wouldn't say no to 50 billion. Send to Ripard Teg, please.

  21. meh. there's always going to be game-breaking isk faucets. i'm sure there's always been many in eve and other mmogs...simply because the devs think they can run the show &/or marketing gets delusional.

    *shrug* I'm happy mining. I actually don't really care if CPP so-and-so fucks up their understanding of basic mining mechanics so badly they (and the trolls) look like fools. I'm sure the only reason for me to unsub is a better mining game comes along in outerspace.


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