Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Tuesday, November 20, 2012

Venture capital

Just a quickie.

CCP Fozzie says "We know that our customers are amazingly creative with ship fittings and tactics and that if we give them a new set of tools they’ll do things better than we could have imagined with them."  One of the upcoming ships in Retribution is the ORE mining frigate, the Venture, which is described this way:
The Venture is the first dedicated Mining Frigate released by the ORE corporation. It boasts strong capabilities for mining both asteroids and stellar gas clouds, and can enter and leave hostile territory effectively thanks to exceptional agility and a class leading +2 warp core strength bonus that allows it to escape some forms of tackle.
Note to Fozzie: I've now asked the best small-gang fleet scouts I know from all across New Eden and all of them agree on a small point.  Know what we're going to do with a ship with exceptional agility and +2 warp core strength?

We're going to scout for fleets with it.  We're going to tackle that fleet's initial target with it.  And we're going to immediately warp off once the back-up point is established.  No need to worry about that target keeping our scout tackled, after all, right?  Or, if the fleet can't land in time, we're going to warp our scout out before he can get himself exploded.  That's going to be our creative use of ship fittings and tactics: keeping fleet scouts alive a lot longer.  Mining?  Tsh.  The fact that it looks like a ship out of Homeworld is just a bonus.

Anyway, just... you know... FYI.

Can we have this +2 warp core strength bonus added to all of the Interceptors when they're rebalanced?  What's good for the goose is good for the gander after all, right?  This is a fine idea with no downsides whatsoever.  Thanks!


  1. Completely agree. Also note that without an Interdictor, this frigate can only be tackled by three (3) disruptor interceptors. How exactly is it supposed to be tackled if and when it's mining, nevermind mind running past gatecamps.

  2. Possible solution: give the thing a warp speed of .5 au. After a few systems you're done using the thing as scout. Another solution: give it a hidden negative bonus (=penalty) to scramrange...

  3. I can see the Venture used as a specialty dual-prop tackle bait-scout. But it won't displace interceptors or even assault frigates. It does reach 2.7km/s with MWD and perfect skills, but without the signature radius reduction of interceptors and assault frigates it'll be fairly easy to hit. And with only three mid slots, it won't be able to both web and point a target. Meanwhile, since it has no tank to speak of, it'll be fairly easy to drive off. Sure, it'll be able to warp out and avoid dying, but then no-one will be left to point the target for the fleet. Which kind of defeats the purpose of having a tackle scout.

    In short, your valuable investment in Interceptors V is stll safe.

  4. Lol I think that is CCPs attempt to lure people into low sec for mining and give pirates something to shoot at.

    Unless the tank is like tinfoil (making the +2 warp strenght moot anyway) it looks like that they didn't think this one through well enough

  5. This frigate seems to OP for mining, it should have +1 only, so people can tackle it, but need to be in scram range, or have 2 disruptor fitted.
    And yeah, I'm pretty sure anyone and their mother though about using this ship as scout / tackle ^^

  6. I've found a data sheet for Venture when I was looking for it for similarly non-mining reasons: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Venture

    Of course I can't be sure if this data is correct. But let's assume it is. The align time isn't bad but isn't great either and there is just ONE low slot. That makes sense to disallow stacking mining laser upgrades. With only one Nano, no way this ship will be a good scout. Also see the 1.2M mass, it won't be that fast.

  7. 10 points for creativity, but you're shooting wide on this one.

    Ignoring the fact that it doesn't help you vs bubbles (and nullsec is the main place that you'll be tackling with a frig), the Venture moves slower, locks slower, and is more fragile than an attack frig. In fact you can stick a warp stab on a Slasher (with a sebo to offset the penalty) and still have it outperform the Venture in almost every way. Nobody fits a stab on their Slasher now, precisely because it gives it performance less like a Slasher and more like your proposed Venture.

    I can see some limited use as a bait ship, but other than that - is anyone really going to pick a ship that's worse in almost every way than a conventional tackler, purely to have a slightly better chance of not losing their cheap t1 frigate? Assuming it doesn't get killed anyway before it can warp, which it probably will.

    1. I've been known to write the occasional facetious blog post. ;-)

  8. The venture is a pretty bad tackler. A stabbed ares beats or ties it in every single category except scan res. Note that neither ship is going to be a good tackler because of the awful lock ranges. The venture has low ehp (equal to the interceptor though, since it can fit a t2 dcu and 3x tank tigs), a large sig (over 3x the sig of the ares fit), is slower (70% of the speed of the ares), etc.

  9. http://i.imgur.com/N1veu.png is the venture vs a stabbed ares.

  10. I welcome this (and thanks for the idea). No one I fly with or against gives any thought whatsoever to mining, and the V-scout has huge comedy potential.

  11. Have you EFT'd it? It is quite a bit slower in speed an align time compared to an interceptor, has just 3 mids and a low and has a very thin tank and T1 resists. I don't care about pointing it if it dies in one volley.

  12. Raise your hands if you're an interceptor pilot that fits warp stabs!

  13. LOL - the only thing funnier than this post are the comments which took this post seriously. Nice one, Jester :)

    Yeah, don't know why CCP is spending limited resources on something as silly as this ORE frigate, when most noob miners will be in a Retriever within the first week.

    Maybe you can use it to haul PLEXs and BPOs through high-sec, though. No one would expect that and the +2 WCS might help you get away, if you do get tackled (assuming you survive the alpha, ofc... lol).

    1. It has uses outside of being a "n00b frigate"... and avantages over the retriever beyond its warp core strength. Its small sig and gas mining capability makes it a boon for gas mining operations - it will now be that much more difficult to get the drop on a wormhole gassing op, and we no longer need to debauch a hurricane by turning it into a gassing boat.

  14. I think the Venture will be a good gas miner but not general miner.

    The 4 seconds-to-warp means that "insta-lock" pirates will get an alpha against you that the Venture cannot withstand. The +2 Warp Stability won't help you then.

    The "Double Scrambled"(1) pirate still won't care about the built-in WCS, even if you put a WCS in the low slot.

    (1) defn: the pirate normally has a Webifier fit but switches it at a station with a Scrambler from their cargo hold for occasions where the mining ship seems very close to the rocks i.e. it probably has 2x WCS fitted that are affecting its targeting range.

    The Venture can neither fight nor flee from the main low/null/wh threats.

    A T2 version could be quite interesting. A *ninja* miner without a viable cloak just seems wrong. A ninja miner would need an extra high slot (for Covops cloak), ideally an extra low slot, and that drone bay can (optionally) be thrown overboard.

    A typical fit could be: 2x Miners, Probe Launcher (got to find that Gas first), and a Covops cloak. Mids as you please. Low can have mining buffs or an extra pair of WCS (defeat double-scramblers or a pair of scramblers) or Nano for speed or (if they ever exist) Ore Hold expanders. Or some combination of those. The drone bay cannot supply enough damage against low/null rats and the bonus material from mining drones seems unimportant - it isn't helping all that much so it can be removed.

    The Cloak, and the ability to warp cloaked, is key to a T2 version. Pirates or low/null Belt Rats appear the ship can cloak and run. The ship can also scout belts before de-cloaking.

    Over-powered? Major threats are still posed by Heavy Interdictors or Covops ships suddenly uncloaking and (double) scrambling. A T2 Venture would be capable but not invincible.

    Most important of course is the appearance: replacing the lovely yellow/light gray with orange/dark colours. Think "tiger stripes" without actual stripes.

    I've thought about this too much haven't I?

  15. Shouldn't you be celebrating Thanksgiving or something? Like you posted earlier? Or is the chance to whine again too much to pass up?

  16. This thing might make a beautiful button orbiter in FW

  17. What do we need with an ORE frigate? Do these guys even play the damn game?

    Just read SonicLover's new devblog, too - what a waste of time & resources.

    Wardecs are still going to be broken; and we still don't know why Soundwave is so intent on griefing newer/smaller corps from the game, with more stupid changes. Hey, let's make it even cheaper to wardec more small corps, and now we can retract the wardec, if the small corp is smart enough make the war mutual and then join a big alliance. Wardec'cing a big corp... more expensive.

    Bounty hunting changes are a complete joke, too. It has never been difficult to fix - make bounties apply to only neg sec status toons, collectible by only pos sec status toons, and make a bountied toon both freely killable - and poddable - anywhere. There needs to be more of a downside to neg sec status and more of an upside to pos sec status, than there is now.

    CCP devs... nothing but fail.

    1. Soundwave is very much fixated on his "Cycle of Dickery" concept ... only problem is he forgets that a rather significant portion of the playerbase are actually Pussies and Assholes, not Dicks. ;-)

    2. Unfortunately, Soundwave is nothing but a pussy, too. He hasn't done much of anything to improve PVP, in any sec.

    3. ^^ Yeah, now that you mention it...

      He kind of reminds me of a steeple-fingered Mr. Burns in his mansion: "RELEASE the HOUNDS!!!"

      He wants to sit in his ivory tower and watch the "hounds" go at it, but doesn't himself want to be "muddied" by the whole affair.

    4. That would cast Dolan as Smithers, then, right?

  18. long overdue and will add a lot of fun

  19. I disagree that it's better than an interceptor.

    * It doesn't align THAT fast (4 sec once you round up for server tick).
    * It doesn't get the point range bonus.
    * It only gets 3k EHP with a MSE+suitcase.
    * The scan res is nice (940mm), but most inties lock faster.
    * It only warps at 6au/sec.

    The REAL value of it, tbqfh, is that it has enough CPU to fit an Expanded Probe Launcher. That's the only real gain you get by using it as a scout, and the negatives are pretty significant.

    IMO, I'll keep my Malediction. There ARE PvP uses for a Venture, but scouting IMHO isn't one of them.


  20. lol goon held by the balls and kicked in the head. it happens to the best when the little head tells the big head its in charge. anyway ccp cant fix the wardec F-Up in play. if they do they show just how much goon OWNs them.

    f-fly safe, gank goonies for free. join an alliance that has those flamers wardec'd


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