Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
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Thursday, January 17, 2013

QOTW: Don't Make Promises

So as I implied yesterday, the CSM December Summit Minutes are out.  Go give them a read if you have six hours or so.  The difference in style between this set of minutes and the last two is remarkable.  Remember that thing where I asked for more transparency and wanted to know which CSM member thinks and says what?

I didn't mean it.  ;-)

I'm kidding.

But damn, not very much.  ;-)  Good Heavens, this is a dense document.  And it's laced throughout with point-for-point arguments and responses, quips and conjecture, whimsy and annoyance, including exactly who said what and sometimes what their tone of voice was when they said it.  It's interesting, but it's a lot of reading!  Needless to say, for those of you that don't have six hours, I'll be breaking down the highlights for you over the next few days.  And that starts with this week's Quote of the Week:
Greyscale replied that coming into meetings with the mindset of CCP promising a certain feature is a fallacious, and flat-out wrong, mindset.
That's quite literally CCP Greyscale's response to those of you out there that thought CCP promised to improve POSs.

Greyscale, I love you.  Don't ever, ever change.

Needless to say, very soon after Greyscale spoke, "The atmosphere was notably tense at the point." (sic)  Ya think?  ;-)

Anyway, more to come, stay tuned.


  1. Threadnaught over POSes already blooming.

    1. With good reason.

    2. Cheese and crackers! They just fixed the whole fueling complexity problem and STILL nobody's happy.

      Swear to god, being a CCP developer is like playing for the New York Yankees. Nobody remembers your contributions for more than 24 hours (unless you're Derek Jeter). It's all 'What have you done for me lately?'.

      I mean...

    3. People have said "thank you for the fuel changes and the password stuff".

    4. In Mord's world, waiting years before fixing obvious and glaring problems is praiseworthy.

    5. What have the Romans ever done for us?

  2. Greyscale has all the integrity of someone offering to double your isk.

  3. If you read Greyscales response and felt like giving him a fist bump at fanfast (to his face), join in on the above mentioned threadnought


    1. A shame that the thread is buried in the Jita Park section of the forums that most people don't bother paying any attention to.

  4. Well you did get an honourable mention as a rather infamous blogger.

    I agree that it was a lot to take in and I'm also sure that it was hell to write & edit in the first place but I think its a good start as it means that people are held accountable for their words and in many ways the document can show the character and tone of many of the CSM members.

    I noticed how during most of the conversations Trebor seemed to be in control of the tone and flow, bringing things back into context as well as offering fairly balanced approaches to some issues that cropped up.

    It was also interesting to see how people reacted to certain topics and most obvious one being the 'rejection' of a POS revamp - I'm sure CCP will have to release another dev blog soon to try and stem this rising tide of rage before it gets out of hand.

    Makes me wonder what the next summits will be like after the new more 'balanced' approach as this summit was quite obviously biased towards Null sec, FW and other PvP activities such as the war dec and BH systems - very little represented in the PvE side, even during the discussions about the new player experiance no one seemed to mention a review of the various game systems that new players have to use to see if they can be improved.

  5. What CCP Greyscale said is 100% right and should be a founding stone into ever CSMvsCCP talk

    The problem lies on the precise moment said statement was given to the CSM.

    There lies the issue of pitchforks and torches being raised and marching towards Iceland.

    1. Maybe if Greyscale wasn't talking about POS changes during the FUCKING ALLIANCE TOURNAMENT people wouldn't have gotten their hopes up.

    2. I enjoy mynnna's writing a lot, but I had to smile when he said the CSM strategy document wasn't just listing a lot of things CCP had already said they wanted to do.

      Obviously, he hadn't seen, or had forgotten the AT interstitials and the third Fanfest key-note.

  6. Pretty sure your comment in an early post re: how ironic it is that the most black-and-white dev at CCP is called GREYSCALE was spot on.

  7. Create storm in tea cup, provide succor at last moment = receive bacon?

  8. Their planning process for the May expansion wraps up in 2 weeks. They really should have released the portion of the minutes that dealt with POSes before the end of last year. One might think they delayed the release on purpose...

    I read them all. There's good and bad stuff in there. CCP never actually "promises" too much. The people who misinterpret what they say have unrealistic expectations IMO. Just like people run for CSM by exaggerating the role of the CSM and what they'll personally be able to accomplish once elected. Nevertheless, POSes desperately need rework, and CCP has deftly swept that issue under the rug for now.

  9. Definition of FALLACIOUS
    1: embodying a fallacy (a fallacious conclusion)
    2: tending to deceive or mislead : delusive

    Awesome word. Other words would more effectively convey a possible intended meaning... maybe.

  10. CCP has always talked a lot about what they want to do, knowing full well that timeframe on such features has always been speculative.

    WiS is probably the most famous example. How many years did we hear about all of the great things we were going to be able to do with human avatars?

    POS changes are less ambitious, perhaps, but still fall under the category of "what CCP would like to do, but might not be able to do anytime soon (or ever)". In any case, CCP has *never* made any promises.

    Greyscale's comment isn't as tactfully worded as it might be, but it is accurate.

    BTW - CCP certainly isn't the only game company that behaves this way.


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