Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Monday, February 18, 2013

Little surprises around every corner

So the patch notes for Retribution 1.1 are out, and of course include the two big items: dueling and the Combat Battlecruiser re-balancing.  There aren't any surprises associated with either of these items.

Some of the features of Retribution 1.1 that caught my eye...
As a part of these changes, extra materials have been added to the build requirements of several Battlecruisers. These extra materials do not return when the ships are reprocessed.
Oh ho, isn't that interesting.  Has anyone had a chance to get on Sisi and see what these "extra materials" are?  Are they PI materials?  It's certainly interesting that reprocessing the ships won't return those materials.

Reading between the lines, I wonder if this hints at CCP's upcoming response to the mineral compression problem: adding a tax to the build cost of items throughout the game.  It will be a bit more painful to construct 7000 425mm Railguns if you also have to have a stack of Precious Metals or Mechanical Parts or whatever.  And it will be a bit painful on the back-end to lose them when you reprocess them.  If this is the way CCP is going, it'll be interesting to see if BPOs other than ships start getting "extra materials" required for their construction, too...

Duel challenges can be globally blocked in the ESC menu by checking the "Dueling - Auto Reject Invitation" option. This setting is per-character and is saved on the server.
I predict checking this box will be the second-most selected item in the ESC menu after unchecking "Load Station Environments".  ;-)

The Log no longer clears after session changes such as jumping/docking etc.
Part of the reason the logs show nothing: it gets cleared every time you enter a new system.  Undoing this is a very good move on CCP's part.  It'll make reviewing your own actions a lot easier (did that bomb hit? did my scram actually cycle? etc.).

Capital Industrial Ships (Rorqual) can now store the Venture in their Ship Maintenance Bay in addition to all the previous ship types they could store.
Heh.  I remind you again of that Venture fit from last week...

Fixed an issue where Shield/Armor/Structure was occasionally wrongly displaying 33% damage when in reality they were at 100% health.
Hallelujah.  Man, that was annoying.

Further improvements have been made to the speed at which containers will load up in the tree of the Inventory window. Players with numerous containers with custom names should observe a marked improvement.
Another good fix, if it works as CCP says it's going to.  It currently takes between eight and ten seconds for my Corporation Hangar in my main manufacturing system to open.  Each of my seven hangars has three or four (or more) named containers in it.

The tracking computer effect has been fixed to display at the correct scale when used on Titans.
This amused the hell out of me the first time I saw it, particularly on a Ragnarok.

Launcher locations on the Enyo are now correct.
This one's also amusing.  If you fit, say, a Festival Launcher to that last missile hard-point on an Enyo, it will move around from system to system or sometimes disappear within the hull entirely.  Glad to hear it's being fixed.

Finally, one of the teaser graphics that's being used to promote Retribution 1.1 is kind of amusing, but you have to be a member of Rote Kapelle to really appreciate it:

Just as I was joining, Rote was getting over an addiction to "cop car" fleets: whole fleets of Federation Navy Comets in which we'd roam around, "pulling people over" courtesy of the flashing light this ship used to have above the cockpit.  But when the faction frigates all received new artwork about a year ago, cop car fleets ended in Rote Kapelle.  And it wasn't because the ship's stats had changed, it was because they didn't look like police cars any more.  ;-)  I swear, that was the real reason!

Anyway, whomever made this little graphic apparently also doesn't care for the new Comet paint job either because this graphic features a picture of the Federation Navy Comet with the 2011 cop car paint job.  Hee!

Enjoy patch day!


  1. It will just be extra minerals like they did with barges and cruisers so that people can't build heaps pre patch and reprocess afterwards for free minerals

    1. Yeah, precisely this. It's not even new, I think... I'm having trouble remembering what, but "extra materials" was in quite a long time before this.

      The inventory speed improvement is nice though, I'd missed that one. Hopefully it means ship fitting will be faster too...

    2. You sure? It sure *seems* like something else is going on. All of these BPOs on Singularity have a new section under Skills and Materials: "Extra Materials". Right now, these sections are blank for all eight Combat BCs.

      I wasn't able to find a cruiser or mining barge that has this section.

    3. On TQ, I mean. They all have this section now on Sisi. I'm almost positive something else is going on here. Know what else has this section now? 425mm Railgun I. As well as all the other mods I checked, too.

    4. CCP started doing this with the mining barge change.
      Go check out the retrierver mineral differences.

    5. Just extra minerals Ripard. Tomorrow, the buildcost of the current Tier 1 BCs are going to be about 55 million ISK with current mineral prices - up from an average 35. CCP did this with the frigates, destroyers and cruisers too. Its part of the tiercide. Both the combat potential and the hull price will level out within each class.

    6. "You sure?"

      Yep. As Jeff indicated, this is the mechanism that CCP implemented several years ago to deal with the reprocessing exploit, whenever material reqs are increased on BPOs.

      If you want to test it on TQ, get a BPC, build a barge, and then recycle it.

    7. IIRC the mechanism was implemented to make Bombs stop being the enormous mineral compression source that they were. Also to prevent T2 recycling (I guess).

      But I really hope that the blank spot indicates that they'll be listing extra materials separately from the rest of build cost on the BPOs instead of lumping it together.

    8. Bombs, that was it.

      In any case, they're welcome to make further use of it if they want by applying it across the board, but they'll kill what little production happens in nullsec if they do. Of course, they'd also be handing me a hilarious tool of economic chaos, so it'd again be a matter of "good for the game versus good/entertaining for me"...

    9. I was going to ask: "have you been drinking?"
      For a guy with so many insights it's hard to believe you are not aware of the extra materials (minerals) on several BPOs which are required for building but are not taken into account when reprocessing. This was done mainly to prevent people from building gazillions of barges/bombs/what-have-you pre-patch with low mineral requirements and then just reprocessing them post-patch for massive amounts of free minerals out of nowhere. That is the only reason so far.
      Also about the logs... Are you seriously telling me that you think CCPs logs get cleared every time you change session? That's so ridiculous a claim that I don't even know where to begin. CCP doesn't give a rat's ass about any logs you as a player provide them. They use internal server logs to determine the validity of your claims and those are saved for a looong time. When they say that the logs show nothing they mean that the level of detail of their server logs is not sufficient to determine what went on exactly. Only thing this helps with is, as you said, seeing what took place for yourself.

  2. Extra materials are an OLD hat, to my knowledge first introduced with the bomb rebalancing of Apocrypha in 2009. It's quite simple really, besides the normal table of materials needed to build an item, you will also need the amount of the second table of extra materials. For instance, if an item needed 100 tritanium to be built and get's assigend 200 tritanium as extra material, one will need 300 tritanium to build it.
    However, the technical execution is somewhat suboptimal, as the extra materials are not effected by ME and are only visible in the client once you install your job ... so if you want to know in advance how much material you are going to need, buy a bunch of blueprints or get accustomed to the eve online database dump. And even in the database it's not that elegant because the "standard" materials and extra materials are contained in two completely different tables and are even associated with different items.

  3. Navy Comet needs "GFPD" on the side again

    1. Pull over squidface and show me your licence.

  4. As Jeff say, CCP is way more cautious about material changes and reprocessing after tyrannis patch, and all the free things you could get while reprocessing npc goods.
    If there were no big spike on tech1 cruisers after last patch was because of these extra materials not being reprocessed. All those who wanted to profit on buying cruisers pre-patch had to wait months for the price to adjust to cash out.
    On tyrannis you could do it one day later it was easy, but for cruisers, and no BCs, you need to have money blocked for months, it's not something affordable by many, and so limit a lot these issues.

  5. http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/2/16227/0/5/0/5

    Extra materials = asteroid minerals, trit etc. It's still interesting that we may be moving towards not getting full value back when you reprocess. Makes sense to me, if you scrap a car you don't get enough perfect metal glass and plastic to immediately build a whole new one.

  6. Not surprised by "Active armor hardeners and shield hardeners no longer give a passive resistance bonus when not active.
    Armor and shield compensation skills no longer give any bonus to active armor or shield hardeners" ?

  7. Did you miss this one?

    o Active armor hardeners and shield hardeners no longer give a passive resistance bonus when not active.

    o Armor and shield compensation skills no longer give any bonus to active armor or shield hardeners.

    1. It's not terribly important? I mean, if you have an active hardener, it'd be on, right? If its off while taking fire it'd mean you either gone cocked things up or neuted to shit, in which case things have already gone tits up and the little resist your deactivated Invul/hardener wouldn't have made much difference.

  8. I thought this one was more interesting:

    "The Triage Module II now correctly prevents the user from docking while active."


    1. Smart peeps in triage dreads knew not to tell CCP duh!

  9. *Active armor hardeners and shield hardeners no longer give a passive resistance bonus when not active.
    *Armor and shield compensation skills no longer give any bonus to active armor or shield hardeners.

    I seem to have missed that discussion.

    1. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=198672&find=unread

      Typical :Greyscale:

  10. So they add additional complexity on the front end with "extra materials" instead of adjusting the reprocessing rates downward and keeping things simple. Yeah, that's CCP for you. If they want to change blueprints to make the game better they should start with decreasing how many nanotransistors are needed across the board wherever they are used. Technetium imbalance solved. But, once again, that's too hard for CCP to figure out.

    All in all I'm pretty happy with the changes announced for tomorrow.

    1. We are unlikely to ever see any intelligent improvement made to the industrial & trade side of EVE.

      If you haven't noticed yet, CCP hasn't hired anyone recently (as in the past several years) with any relevant experience in market trading, manufacturing, invention, economics, et al. The most recent hires have all been folks with PVP experience, and not much else. And, CCP DrEyjo has pretty much fallen off the radar, since he got too lazy to keep up the QENs.

    2. I think Dr E has been told to SHUT UP to hide bone head moves like the DEV's fucked up with FW bonanza's detrimental affects on the economy after he warned them...
      I doubt Dr E will get the go ahead to mention the Incursion numbers after the Escalation collapse eff up either this fanfest

  11. Another lovely feature of "extra materials" is that the amount of "extra materials" needed for construction is unaffected by me'ing the BPO. I discovered this last year when me'ing a station components BPO to reduce the amount of tritanium/zydrine/noxcium. When I petitioned it, CCP replied "It is working as it is intended to." They did, most kindly, offer to increase the PE of the BPO to recompense me for the time I wasted me'ing it.

  12. I dunno about you but I don't know ANYONE that has "Load Station Environment" unchecked. We like being able to spin our ships...

    And the clearing of the session log wasn't that much of a problem. Every time it was cleared it's been saved into Documents/EVE/logs/gamelogs this whole time.

    If you really wanted to read those logs they have always been there but the fact it will no longer on a session change is nice :D

    1. You know me. I have it unchecked. The station environment adds a lot of client load when you have multiple clients running, as I do almost every moment I'm logged into the game.

    2. I also have the Load Station Env option unchecked, along with all of the other load-intensive graphics options.

      When playing on a laptop, it isn't difficult to overheat your graphics chip, particularly during a long game session.


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