Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Sunday, May 5, 2013

CSM8 status: Week zero

Welcome to the first of what I expect will be 53 or so weekly blog posts on what CSM8 is up to this year.  ;-)  I call this one "week zero" because quite frankly, I don't feel like CSM8 has taken office yet.  There are still several things that need to be done before I can consider CSM8 official.

First up, several members of CSM8 haven't yet signed their Non-Disclosure Agreements.  Once the CSM8 results were officially announced, CCP Dolan caught those of us that were actually in Reyk for Fanfest among both the CSM and DUST 514's CPM.  Would we be interested in coming by the CCP offices on Sunday to get a quick tour and sign our paperwork?  In addition, Dolan said that he'd invite the members of CSM7 that wished to come so that we could have our first "transition meeting" with the outgoing CSM.  Afterward, all of us that wished to would head for dinner.

The members of CSM8 that were present in Reyk were myself, Trebor Daehdoow, Sort Dragon, progodlegend, and Korvin.  Unfortunately, progod and Korvin would be unable to make the Sunday evening appointment.  A number of CSM7 members were in town, including Hans Jagerblitzen (now a member of the CPM), Elise Randolph, Two step, Greene Lee, Seleene, and Trebor (of course).  However, of those only Elise, Two step, and Hans were able to attend.  So, in terms of being a transition meeting, it was kind of a bust.  Still, I got to meet the full CPM and got to have a number of interesting conversations with them.  Make no mistake about one thing: the CPM is every bit as passionate about DUST 514 as EVE players are about our game.  In particular, they are very passionate about making sure that DUST can stand on its own two feet without any assistance from EVE.

EDIT (6/May/2013): Two step was also able to attend the transition meeting and the dinner.  Sorry about that, Two step!

One question that came up right away with many members of CSM8: is the NDA itself under NDA?  I and many other members of CSM8 feel rather strongly that the NDA should be a public document, for two reasons:
  • so that we can point to it and you as our constituents have a good understanding of what it says; and,
  • so that the candidates for CSM9 won't have any surprises about what it says and doesn't say.
The specter of Darius III's leak was very much on people's minds as those of us in Reyk signed the NDA, I can tell you.  Those members of CSM8 that were not in Reyk have had the NDA mailed to them and will be expected to sign it, scan it, and send the scan back to Dolan to make them official.  Also during the meeting, Dolan gave CSM8 its first marching orders: start to talk amongst ourselves and get our officers chosen.

Dinner was otherwise very low-key.  I think all of us that were there were pretty worn out by that time from Fanfest.  Still, I had a really interesting extended conversation with CCP Fozzie (also present) about ship balancing and about in-game resources.  I'm going to write up a bit of that conversation and submit it to Dolan and see if that convo falls under the NDA, because I think I picked up a really interesting insight during the convo.  We'll see what Dolan and Fozzie think; I personally don't think my conclusions about the convo fall under NDA but it'll be an interesting first test.

After that, those of us in Reyk had travel to get home; those that were already home set up a preliminary Skype channel for us to converse in.  I'm happy to report that's up and running and CSM8 is already a very active, chatty body.  ;-)  In addition to a lot of "gettin' to know you" sort of chit-chat this week, we turned our attention over to deciding who our officers should be.  I want to extend kudos to mynnna who has done a great job this week with organizing that bit in terms of grabbing each member of CSM8 and asking them to express preferences.  I think you'll be interested to see who we end up choosing.  I'm happy to report that we seem to be coming to a very quick consensus on this topic even though there are a lot of disparate personalities on CSM8.

Things we don't have yet include our access to CCP's private forums and a transition document or true transition meeting with CSM7.  I'm told these things are coming.  We also need to schedule our first CSM8 Town Hall -- I'm going to be pushing for that pretty hard.  And I'd still like to talk my colleagues into a monthly text-chat meeting about features and ideas to vote on and submit to CCP as a new list of litte things.  Once the officer question is settled, I'll be looking into that one.  I'm also going to continue to follow up with Dolan on whether the NDA is under NDA.

CSM8 has also received our invitation to our first stake-holder meeting, later this week.  Finally, with the question of the leak still unresolved, it looks like we're going to move official CSM communications with CCP to a more secure server which CCP is setting up.

So all in all, a pretty productive first week in my view, even though in my view we've not really officially begun our duties yet.  Stay tuned, more to come!


  1. Congrats, Jester, and all the other CSM8 members too. You will all work hard (most of you anyway) and your communications skills should serve you well. It's a bad sign that MB3 seems to be the point person within CCP for shepherding the CSM around. Looking forward to the next round of "stakeholder" redefinition and "what should we do about nullsec" discussion for the 5th time in 5 years. If you get a chance, read those leaked skype logs. You were on your way to Iceland right when they came out. Nothing earthshattering in them, but there were a couple interesting tidbits, one of which was MB3's disdain for the players re. the POS stuff. He came off as totally antagonistic and blamed Two Step for stirring the pot on something that absolutely needed to be stirred IMO. Good luck with MB3/Dolan. You said during FF he seemed OK. It will be interesting to see if your view evolves over the next year.

    Congratulations, again, to all of you. Do us proud.

  2. So will there be a NDA about the NDA'd NDA? ;-)

  3. You've likely made this argument already but surely the NDA itself cannot fall under the NDA, for the simple reason that if it were and you refused to sign it you would not be bound by it and thus would be able to share it since you never entered into an NDA. Even if it does, the time to share the document would be after having received it but before signing it. I'm pretty sure NDAs aren't retroactive.

    It's like those shrink-wrap license agreements that used to come with software, you know, the ones that said "by opening the opaque shrink wrap this agreement was inside of you are agreeing to abide by it". I don't know about Icelandic law, but in the US those were struck down because the end user was not presented with the option to decline the license agreement after having read it.

  4. Congrats. Now bring the fun back to eve. Please ;)

  5. Um, I was also at the meeting, and the dinner...

  6. I'd encourage you to setup a link on the right at the TOP to quickly pull up your series of posts.

  7. As someone that voted for you, I'm excited to hear about how open you're going to attempt to be as far as communication with players. Of course, I expect after the NDA process and everything is settled, it'll probably be a lot more toned down. Either way, keep having fun and don't forget to enjoy EVE and not get yourself burnt out.

  8. This, this and THIS. I knew at the very very least with you on the CSM line of communication, even in the dull, boring ol good times of no 'riots', would be open and active...

    Even if/when things are going well, when there is really not so much to lean on the fence and chat about, we know there is development work going on, ideas bouncing around, 'stuff' being discussed... and we need to know as much as is possible that is NOT under NDA.

    Ripard, please look for and seek out those things you CAN talk to us about such as is the NDA, NDA'ed, and idea's, not WIP (Work In Progress) but just ideas that we can weigh in on good or bad, tell us about the behind the scenes stuff (like a 'making of' sorta take on EvE)... I hope we will never hear from you that "We didn't say much because there is not much to say"... =]

    My hope, and the reason I voted for you, is that CSM8 will go down as THE best CSM as regards open 2 way communication between CCP and the playerbase.

  9. * Response if that thing that CCP Fozzie said is under nda.
    * Response if NDA is under NDA
    * Town Hall meeting (when)
    * Monthly report (Little Things)

    Hmm. First real week of CSM. If you keep this up CCP will go mad, you'll burn out and your fellow CSM members will go braindead :-)

    I'm very happy I voted for you...

  10. I've had a petition open with Dolan to release the NDA for 3 weeks. My assumption is that he is waiting for you all to sign before releasing.

  11. CCP's NDAs are hard-core scary text. Spooky, but I doubt they'll phase experienced folk like Jester.

    Basically anything that breaches, or could be considered a breach gets you sent to Icelandic court. I'd like to think it's all pomp reserved for stuff that winds up actually being damaging to the company, but what corporate lawyer is going to write in edge cases?

    1. The NDA won't be enforced by the court; in truth, you'll probably just get temp or perma-banned from the game, depending on the severity of the incident.

      Why won't the NDA be court-enforced?

      Because of the nature of the CSM. It is made up of foreign nationals, participating as voluntary, unpaid consultants for the game (and actually *not* to CCP, as a business). They have no authority nor financial stake in the company, and no actual responsibility to the company.

      To enforce the NDA, the court would need to arrange for the extradition of the accused, which would require sufficient evidence of *significant* financial damage, resulting *solely* from the actions of the accused. Note that the wisdom of CCP's own actions, in releasing such potentially damaging information to the CSM, would also be called into question, by the Icelandic court and by the legal representatives of the country of the accused, before any extradition process would begin.

      Let's say that CCP were to inform the CSM that they had made secret arrangements with Sony and Disney, to coordinate a hostile takeover of EA, and then the information was leaked, causing the deal to fall through. CCP gets upset and attempts to file a formal breach of contract complaint against a CSM member. In all likelihood, the court would take the position that it was unnecessary and foolish of CCP to entrust such sensitive business information to the CSM, information which is outside the scope of the actual game, and thus assign the blame solely on CCP. No extradition would be issued, and the case would be dropped.

      That's how RL courts work. No one in the RL legal system is going to care how many trillions of in-game ISK you managed to steal for the Goons by violating the NDA.

  12. I missed it somewhere in the hustle - what exactly was Darius III's leak ?

    1. D3 got a temp ban which to my knowldge is still in effect after months of lackluster investigation by CCP for according to him reporting theat an in game Eve player reported intel leaks that DEV was cheating & gave HBC fleet movement & evemail content INTEL. The incident was reported to CSM7 in around the time of the winter summit. The DEV got fired mid last year ( around the time CCP Diagoras left? ) but it was reported he left due to person issues. The info though is rather sketchy so there is no 'exact info about the D3 leak'.

    2. http://bit.ly/11tETdw
      He leaked again about a CCP dev that cheated again.

  13. Do us proud Jester!!! Though I'm not sure if I should wish the dubious honor of chairmanship on you, if you do get chosen I know you'll do a great job.

  14. Why does the devblog and the ballot-file take as long as it does? Do you know?

  15. "Dolan gave CSM8 its first marching orders: start to talk amongst ourselves and get our officers chosen."

    Please don't. "Officers" for a 1-year term in a volunteer organization is so pre-computer age, that it is pathetic.

    With modern communications, you can all share the responsibilities and workload, so there is absolutely no reason to tack a pre-defined bunch of them on any one particular person, based on a title, esp. since no real authority comes along with an officer role.

    Trust me. You'll do much better without "officers".

  16. <3 I am very much looking forward to reading your CSM posts. This post is a model for what I believe the average CSM-aware player wants--a casual roundup of tidbits from day-to-day activities that are regularly reported. You're exactly the right person to do this reliably and in a way that will be interesting to read.

  17. I think the first thing you folks might want to look at is the new price for battleships.

    According to CCP Rise, all Tier 1 and 2 battleships will cost the same to build as the current Tier 3 battleships. So, we're looking at somewhere around 150M-200M ISK, just for the hull.

    However, since making the change to the BPOs will involve the infamous "extra materials", the insurance payouts for Tier 1 and 2 battleship will *not* be increased.

    CCP Rise also says that the other CCP devs all agree on the price increase being the right thing to do for the players. How do you folks on CSM8 feel about it?

  18. A couple of things to add to your CSM to-do list:

    1) No more new skills, please.

    Adding more skills, to give vets something new to train, penalizes new players. They already have far too many skills to train to level 3/4, just to get to basic competency and fit/fly ships sufficiently to compete against the vets.

    Rather, than add new skills, please suggest that CCP simply extend the existing skill levels from 5 to 6. Based on the math used for SP training, each level 6 skill will take a *very long* time to train, which is fine for the vets. It is also good for the new players, since the much lower ROI on a level 6 skill won't penalize them as greatly as adding new skills does - the already low ROI on the level 5 skill pretty much proves this point.

    2) Remaps for PLEX.

    There is too much ISK in the game and this is a good way to help drain some of it off (as well as make more money for CCP). And, remaps aren't like gold ammo - they give no real in-game tactical or strategic advantage to rich players. Remaps for PLEX simply allows players to be a bit more sloppy in planning long-term SP training.


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