Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Tuesday, June 11, 2013

Enjoy the Odyssey

So, having played with Odyssey for a week now, I wanted to mention some of my favorite features, other than all the new ships.  I've already covered the new ships in previous detailed posts and haven't seen much yet to change those opinions.  Overall, all of the ship changes, adds, and rebalancing are my favorite "big feature" in Odyssey.

But let's get on to the other things I also like from the incredibly long list of changes in Odyssey:
New decryptors have been added.
Decryptors now have a new naming scheme.
I really love the new decryptors.  Adding a bunch of new decryptors to the game was a great choice!  So many of us in the T2 invention and manufacturing business completely eschew decryptors.  There just aren't a lot of invention cycles where they're useful.  And for the first few days of Odyssey, I was a little worried that the new decryptors weren't going to help.  But now that the spawn rates are apparent, it's clear that there are going to be a number of commodity decryptors that will be useful for a lot of different invention cycles.  I like that!

Still, there are a couple of things that I think should be done to tune this feature a bit.  First, I think the drop rates need to be tweaked somewhat.  Already, there are some pretty valid complaints that the new mini-game sites are not very lucrative to run.  Now of course, this is going to balance itself out naturally.  As people decide that the sites aren't worth their time, they'll stop doing the sites which will drive prices up.  And as inventors start to use the decryptors for more general jobs, that will push the demand and the prices up.  Where the eventual balance will end up, I think it's too early to say.  But my instinct is that the spawn rate right now is a bit too high.

Second, I think the game is missing two or three MORE decryptors that can act as pure commodity decryptors.  In particular, there should be a decryptor that does nothing but increase invention chances by about 10-15%, and one that does nothing but increase runs by +1 or +2.  Ideally, I'd like to see us reach a point where virtually any invention job could benefit from a cheap decryptor that's commonly available... but you won't handicap yourself if you don't want to use them.

Third, I thought it was great to give the decryptors a common, understandable naming scheme.  But it was a tiny bit disappointing to me that the decryptors don't include the word "decryptor" right in their names to make them easy to search for on the market.  That would make things easier for all inventors, but most particularly for novice inventors.  I'll be suggesting it now and again to the right people, if I can find them.  ;-)

Probe Formations have been added to the Probe Scanning.
The default method for moving and resizing probes is now all probes at once, rather than one at a time.
Probe Launchers now launch all their probes at once (up to a limit of 8 probes).
Speaking as a journeyman prober, I love pretty much everything about the new probing system.  I keep flashing back to the guy I met at Fanfest who was complaining that if fishermen had to use the probing interface to find fish, they'd never catch one.  I really like the red spherical hints the game gives you when you first bring up the scanning interface that helps you zero in on sites.  They're not giveaways, in my opinion, but save you a lot of the initial annoyance associated with the scanning system.

Probe formations themselves aren't perfect, but it's a fantastic start to what I think can be iterated on over time into a really useful feature.  Even this first version is pretty good, though it's really quirky and takes some getting used to in terms of resizing the probe formations.  But it's miles better than the old system, particularly in terms of moving formations around, resizing formations, and understanding spatially where your formation is relative to the thing you're trying to scan for.  All of these are markedly improved.  Is the system perfect?  Not at all.  I'm not a fan of the way scanning results are displayed, but I'll cover that in another post.

All clone costs have been decreased by 30%.
Yes yes yes!  For too long, high SP PvPers have been repeatedly punished for getting into frigate and destroyer PvP with the ridiculously high cost of high-end clones.  This is a step in the right direction but I think needs to be reduced some more.  I know the concern here: where are the ISK sinks in EVE?  But I think it's likely that reducing the costs here will encourage more low-end PvP and more loss of clones by high SP characters and the ISK sink value will actually come out even or maybe even slightly ahead.  It's something else I'll be asking about when the time comes.

All high quality nullsec combat anomalies now contain at least one NPC that warp scrambles.
This is a good start but hasn't been taken far enough.  Risk versus reward, right?

The cycle time of all Ice Harvester modules has been halved, doubling the speed of ice mining.
I'm a big fan of this one.  The rest of the ice mining changes?  I'm on the fence about them.

Capacitor needs on Large Pulse Laser Turrets has been decreased by 10%.
Capacitor needs on Large Beam Laser Turrets has been decreased by 20%.
Thank you thank you thank you.  Particularly with the changes to Amarr battleships, notably the Apocalypse, this is a good change.  But it helps the Abaddon out too and really helps it in its role as the heavy hitter of the Amarr battleships, which was desperately needed.  It had become a rite of passage for Guardian pilots to recognize that on a long op or structure shoot you had to occasionally send Abaddons a few cycles of cap to keep their DPS high.

To encourage more industrial activity in player-owned nullsec space, we are increasing the number of facilities in player-built outposts significantly.
I'm a fan of these changes, but it's going to be interesting to see if they actually go anywhere.  This might be a situation where null-sec players are so used to the logistics aspect of their play that the ability not to do that in some cases might not get very far.  Now I'm definitely not the expert on this topc so I'll be leaning on null-sec players to tell me if this is a good or a bad change in practice.  But in theory, it was a good idea and I'd like to see it pushed even farther, perhaps with additional upgrades and the like.

All Racial Battleship requirements on Dreadnoughts reduced from 5 to 3.
All racial Battleship requirements on Carriers and Supercarriers reduced from 5 to 3.
I think the skill changes for the various classes of ships were well done in general, but I'm particularly favorable toward these two changes.  So many of us have capital ship-dedicated characters and it doesn't make much sense to torture us with another 30+ days of training for ships we're never going to fly on those characters.

The Radial Menu in EVE has been removed and replaced with an all-new menu designed for fast-paced interaction. The menu is available when flying in space and can be opened via left click + hold on objects in space.
I know the radial menu has a lot of opponents but the more I play with it, the more I like it!  It's pretty clear that this is the first step away from the "spreadsheets in space" user interface that has dominated our lives in EVE for so long.  Whether you like radial menus or not, you have to admit that they're a standard in games right across the industry and we're used to using them.  Once you develop the new muscle memory for what's where, I think any annoyance you have over them will die down.  One pretty clever bit: you can activate the radial menu from within the Overview, which I think is a really nice touch.

The UI changes and fixes in general
This is in addition to the radial menu.  Once again, the UI team has hit a home run with this expansion, cleaning up a lot of stuff that desperately needed to be cleaned up.  There's almost nothing about the various UI changes that I don't really really like.  I'm not going to try to list them all.

Little things that I like:
A complete redesign for the Apocalypse and it‘s factional variants.
I love this.  I love the attention to detail.  It's probably the best-looking ship the art team has ever done.
New microwarpdrive and afterburner sound effects have been added - they each now have their own distinctive sound.
The first time I heard this, I was "whasat?"  (Yes, EVE has sound.)  But I find myself listening for it now!  It's a bit too subtle, IMO, but a nice small add.
Introduction of new items on the loot table, such as capital rigs and faction tower BPCs.
Yay!  I'm glad these are back.  They make the game more interesting.
Removed all NPC’s from Hacking and Archaeology sites, with the exception of Wormhole sites.
I think this was a good choice.
"Hacking" sites have been renamed Data Sites. "Archaeology" sites have been renamed Relic Sites.
Renaming the sites and the associated modules?  Also a good choice.  Removing needless complexity from the game is always a good thing.
New graphical effects warning you that you are about to undock from Hangars.
Excellent change!  Really adds to the immersion of the game.
Jump-gates are now using the latest V3 materials and effects, re-textured and with new jump effects. The jump-in effect itself is now more subtle then before the transitions where added.
I love the new jump gates, but the jump effect is TOO subtle.  The art team toned it down too much.
The new Personal Hangar Array structure has been added.
I may never see one, but I'm very glad this is in the game.
Cruise missiles have been overhauled to be a viable weapon system in actual combat.
It's interesting, but damn I think it's left the Scorpion Navy Issue as an over-powered beast.  And it's made Ravens and battleships with MJDs a little bit silly.  I like it, but overall I'm concerned that it's been taken too far.
We are adjusting the composition of several types of Ore that is found in low and null-security space.
I'm a big fan of these changes.  I'm particularly pleased by the fact that this should help newer players out on the low-end.  Ships were getting a tiny bit too expensive in EVE and I'm hoping these changes arrest that a little bit.
The range for interacting with structures linked to a Control Tower has been increased.
I like this a lot.  I think all the small changes made to POSes were positive on the whole though they do not get CCP out of needing to do modular POSes.
Cosmic Anomalies and Cosmic Signatures have been renamed.
Yep!  Yet another great example of removing unneeded complexity from the game.  Now all of you out there with notes on what a Ladar site is versus a Mag site in your bios can delete those notes.
On Pod Death you will no longer instantly snap back to station. Your camera drones will show your corpse in space before your consciousness is transferred to your new clone.
This is pretty nifty.  Again, increases immersion.
Persistent navigation statuses have been added for: Aligning, Approaching, Orbiting and Keeping at Range.
These are also pretty nifty.
When a targeted ship is destroyed the target will flash several times before it is removed from your target list. If the target gets away, it will simply disappear as before.
Once you're used to this, this is fantastic!  It takes a huge amount of ambiguity out of PvP in EVE.  This is probably my favorite small change in Odyssey.

So overall, that's quite a long list!  Next up: features that I'm still on the fence about.  After that, a post about Odyssey in the bigger picture because that's what I really want to get to with these lists.  What I say in that one may surprise you.  Anything on this list that you're not a fan of?


  1. I, too, was excited for what the radial menu meant for the future of EVE's UI.

    In Shiva.

  2. I don't like the radial menu, but I don't like them in general. The target flashing before popping is irritating, especially when a falcon or other ecm ship is on the field. The jump animation gets old real quick for long journeys. The new gate flash animation isn't very obvious either, I don't see why that needed a change. Other than those points though I really quite enjoy this expansion.

  3. Pre-existing:
    - spamming the warp button when I'm about the lose my ship and having the window minimize (that is the most moronic action ever conceived by someone); I lost I don't know how many pods because of this
    ? losing ALL my settings when the game froze (I've spent months refining those settings and there's no in-game way to back them up)

    - warping forever and having to restart the game because of it
    - having to log 6 times and then wait and try again half an hour later because the interface just wouldn't appear
    - logging and discovering that all charges are gone - from the launchers, TD, MASB

  4. "I really love the new decryptors."

    Are you nuts? Did you see the justification for increasing the drop rates? Did you know that the stated purpose of increasing those drop rates has been totally counteracted by the decimation of decryptor prices due to the market being flooded with the things?

    Does it even bother you anymore that you write 10 paragraphs on a subject and nobody reads past paragraph number one?

    You used to be a player, now you're basically an ass kisser.

    1. I think the price of decryptors is going to come back up once the market realizes that they're actually useful and THAT will cause the volumes on them to go way up.

      Right now, decryptors only get used in any numbers for two things: ships and rigs. That is a tiny percentage of the possible use of decryptors.

      Yes, individual decryptors won't be worth as much and I'm sorry for you if you had a big stockpile of them. But this change is better for the industrialists and the players that buy from industrialists.

  5. Just a note about Ravens and Cruise Missiles and MJDs before people go all alarmist about it:

    It may seem at first that a MJD Raven, needing hardly any tank on account of its range superiority, might end up overpowered with all those slots given over to gank. But in practice I find this not so, since there are only so many modules that increase missile damage in the first place, and a well-fit mission Raven already has room for almost all of them.

    I fly a Navy Raven with 3 rigor rigs, 4 BCUs and 2 TPs, with an actual tank instead of a MJD, and I still usually one-shot anything between destroyers and battlecruisers. That means a 3rd TP wouldn't help since I'm already applying full damage to BS and one-shotting everything else, and a 5th BCU wouldn't add anything either. So giving up my tank for a MJD would gain me nothing.

    I also fly an afterburner/autocannon Machariel. Before Odyssey it was noticeably faster at almost every mission, and I've kept logs of completion times in various fits for hundreds of missions now. After Odyssey, the Navy Raven is on par with it -- not faster, just about the same. Maybe a tad slower here and there.

    Given that Navy Raven and Machariel prices are now converging on a similar point, this parity seems about right to me. If cruise missiles in general or the Raven hulls in particular are overpowered, I haven't seen much evidence of it yet.

  6. On the whole I like the new scanning interface too, but I really wish the formations were customizable.

    Yes, I grant that the given "pinpoint" formation is mathematically the best choice, but I find it visually confusing and spatially hard to work with on account of the probes all being at odd angles (360/7=51.42857...).

    I much prefer the old 7-probe layout (one center, one each on all 6 axes) because the pattern of overlapping coverage spheres was more symmetric, more geometric, I don't know.. just easier to look at somehow.

    It's not a big thing, it's just a little disappointing to have an element of my own style taken away like that. And it's nice that they let you individually reposition your probes, and the launcher will even remember your changes between jumps, but as soon as you close the client it's lost. It'd be nice if that weren't the case.

  7. "Removed all NPC’s from Hacking and Archaeology sites, with the exception of Wormhole sites."

    Actually there is another exception: Incursion hacking sites which don't requite the mini game ( eventhough a DEV the Friday before Odyssey's release said it would mistakenly )& have no loot just shut off a shield repping tower...
    Are there other sites that require code breakers besides the Exploration sites & Incursion sites?

    1. You know, that's a good point. I don't know.

    2. I wonder how this affects cosmos sites that require hacking/analyzing.

  8. One thing I hate as a logi is this damned radial dial doesn't allow you to move targeted ships if you keep the mouse buttton down: unless you move effing fast as lightening the radial pops up & you can't move selected items!

  9. I play simply to enjoy the few hours or so away from RL stress, and as such I enjoy getting immersed into the New Eden universe, so the more real it becomes the better. However; the one change that makes me feel more then a little cheated is the new automatic system scan. I find that it has "Dumbed-up" the game. To me it is far less challenging now with regards to exploration, hell, in some cases results have the option to "Save Location" and "warp to" provided for anyone-and-everyone to use thereby simplifying it even more. Where is the skill and challenge in that? Again, to me it feels less real and hence, less enjoyable. Now maybe this is actually the case, no one has said for sure, and perhaps you could shed some light on this particular subject but, I think the Dev's should have tied the scan results into a characters Skill Tree to have the results reflect the characters scanning abilities rather then paint everyone with the same brush stroke. Maybe even leave it as it is for the 1.0 systems where new players are being introduced to the game and then make it progressively more difficult as you move lower down into lower and lower systems while being tied to the skill tree. I am probably a minority on this observation, but you asked, so there it is.
    Thank you for producing these outstanding blogs, they are an integral part of my New Eden experience.

    Keep up the great job,

    Doobe Maulerant

    1. Hey, yeah. Maybe no one should automatically receive a comprehensive list of sigs on entering a system. Skill could determine the maximum number given, or it could determine the default chance for a given sig to register.

  10. I'm quite interested in your thoughts on auto-recalling probes and magic teleporting probes.

    Other than that, I'd like to respond to this:
    "I really like the red spherical hints the game gives you when you first bring up the scanning interface that helps you zero in on sites. They're not giveaways, in my opinion, but save you a lot of the initial annoyance associated with the scanning system."

    They kind of are giveaways, sometimes. All sites are within 4 AU of a celestial body, so if the sphere only covers one or two planets, or the sun, etc, it's extremely easy to pin it down in 2 scans, sometimes 1 if it's a strong signal strength.

    Compare this with the old system of dropping a DSP, setting it to 256 AU and scanning the system, and those spheres would be centred on the sun and sometimes massive because you didn't know exactly where it was. It really does make scanning sites down hilariously easy now.

    On the whole though, I'm happy, there are just little things that bug me, like the auto-recalling/teleporting probes, or the loot pinata which doesn't encourage co-op at all.

    Still though, if it's only little things that can be complained about, it's a good expansion, but god damn those little things nag in the back of my mind.

  11. CCP doesn't have a great track record when it comes to iterating on existing features. When someone say "it's a nice start" (probe formations, minigame, etc.) I fear it will be dropped off for the new shiny things/feature coming in the next expansion.

    I guess here's where the CSM can push CCP to deliver on all these great features that need iteration.

    1. I think CCP has been improving on this front the last two years.

  12. Overall very happy with Oddyssey… Kudos CCP.

    Personal POS Hangars; HOT DAMN! ‘Bout time… where’s the rest? (are we THERE yet!?)

    Capitol Ship Arrays in W-space; HOT DAMN! ‘Bout time… OH MY GODS they are funny looking! Like HUGE metal tits on a beach ball!

    New graphical effects; undock/jump gates/wormholes… All extremely good and add greatly to Immersion.

    New Sounds; Kudos.

    Faction POS BPC drops; Kudos.

    Cruise Missile Buff; OK, now I gotta go check out Cruise Missiles.

    Ore/Ice changes; as regards Null, I care not, as impacts POS Fuels… I care deeply. Overall though I believe very good changes for New Eden.

    Radial Menu; slowly getting used to it, as you said it’s more a muscle memory issue than anything… still a menu, still have to open>choose>select… might be better, I’m still learning it.

    One thing I did find that I like is when you select ‘orbit’ on something, say a ship, the orbit ‘distance’ is increased and decreased based on the pointer. IE move the pointer way from the ship the menu is open on and the orbit distance increases, move it back towards the menu/ship and it decreases… I do prefer this over typing in or selecting a set distance.

    New POD Death; haven’t seen this one (yet)… but sounds better, though from an Immersion aspect you actually wouldn’t be hanging around to gander at yer burnt-up-n-flash-frozen corpsicle as you have just DIED a very violent death, have been reborn and are most likely moar in need of a towel and a hug.

    (Like but not as much as you might think…)
    POS Module Control Range increase; Meh. Yea, it’s nice, but again it’s a little nerf to realism. I mean yea the new ‘lore’ is that droans do all the moving, yer just ordering it all to be done…. OK, I’ll bite, but if that’s so then there should be a ‘cost’ in time for stuff to get from one place to the next, instead of instantaneous transfers.


    All Odyssey changes in Null; I could not care less about Nullfun and anything associated with it, with the possible exception of killing people there on a roam.

    No Opinion (yet):

    New ships; haven’t flown any, so no opinion yet.

    Manufacturing changes; as I’m not an Indy guy (we kidnapped Mabrick for that) so ask him =]

    Data & Relic Sites; because we Anoikii (Awakers? Awoken?) still have to trounce some Sleepers in our D&R sites, we haven’t run any just yet as we had a long Merc Op right after Odyssey dropped and the Alliance is getting settled back in Bastion so Combat Sites and PI and fuel and such have taken precedence. As the Data/Relic sites in our C6 cannot be soloed so I am hoping to get a few guys together and mebbe run the one we have in Bas ATM, we’ll see.

    1. The pod death scene is actually in the EVE lore dating back to Empyrean Age, the novel by Tony Gonzales circa 2008, if not further. Remember that your sensory information in your spaceship is provided by camera drones; even when your ship dies, even when your pod dies, the drones are still there transmitting information to you. How is the information transmitted to you if you are dead? who knows! Your mind at the moment of death is instantaneously transmitted to your new clone; I guess the pod death scene is the camera drones' last impressions before your new clone is Awakened.

    2. Interesting... but I was hoping for some fun off the 'towel and a hug' bit... =\

  13. I need to add this little thought... (as the comments only allow 4k characters and mine was... well, over that a smidge...)

    Warning: lotsa TL;DR to follow...

    Magic Probes; (Steps up onto soapbox…) As you may know, I consider the probe changes to be an overall Nerf, a removal of fascinating and realistic complexity hence making a highly complex system far too simplistic and easy. However, you and I may agree to disagree on this but… as someone who has lived for going on 3 years by his probing skills, I think I have a vastly more experienced and, may I say… professional, opinion on this subject.

    Of course many will love the new changes… people don’t like things that are hard if they know of an easier way and in a computer game, everything can be made easier… just code it so it is. But… does that mean we “should” if the complexity is more ‘realistic’? I say no. Not unless there is a valid reason other than ‘I don’t like this’.

    And, now that I have used the New Magic Probes, I can say definitively that they have not nerfed, but completely removed one area of risk in EvE specific to Anoikis. As the probes now auto-return on nearing the end of their life/fuel/battery power you can’t ‘lose’ them with the associated risks that entails in Anoikis.

    Everyone I have talked to agrees that this has removed the pressure one used to feel when probing. You CANNOT lose your probes so instead of working to get the sigs scanned to 100% and retrieve your probes ‘before you lose them ‘you relax and hell, why not glance up and watch Mad Men during a scan sweep… then a few minutes later someone asks if you’ve found the Hisec yet and, “Oh! sorry… got caught up in the TV, okay back to scanning!” There used to be a ‘cost’, an inherent ‘risk’ to scanning that has quite simply been removed… So since when was EvE supposed to be ‘safe’ and ‘easy’?

    OK, I’m off the soapbox, go back to what you were doing…

    1. I get what you're saying about the probe return thing. But the thing that kind of counters your argument is that it's actually kind of... realistic, if I can be trusted with that word.

      If you were designing the actual probing system of an actual starship, wouldn't YOU program the system to automatically recall probes when the host ship was "done" with them? I would. That's good design.

      So I think it can be argued either way. And either way, I don't think it's that big of a change.

    2. Sure, the system makes sense. But then it also makes sense that you're prevented from docking/jumping until the probes travel the distance required to reach you. As it is right now, its "magic".

    3. I agree that yes, it is most likely that a RW probe system would have some form of autoreturn or at least a EOL Warning. And for all of Empire space, this is a non issue as you can't ever lose sight of your gates... the opposite of what we in Anoikis live with.

      But, if you want to talk RW/VW parallels (and I do), then explain to me how probes can warp to you from ANY distance, broach the warp tunnel and dock safely aboard your ship while in warp? None of which is supported by current accepted SciFi lore (not EvE lore but SciFi in general) which 'generally' concurs that a breach of the warp bubble (tunnel, etc.) would dump your ship back into normal space... probably with detrimental effects to ship and crew.

      (And yes, I fully realize I am kinda arguing whether Mighty Mouse could kick Superman's ass here... [...my money would be on the Kryptonian] but it's a SciFI game so meh...)

      And in my blog I also stated that I will accept your 'Autoreturn program', but there should be a 'cost' for this... instead of YOU pushing the "Recall Probes" buhtan then going to warp manually, if you have probes out and you just hit "Warp" your ship hits "Recall Probes" FIRST, then you have to WAIT until they are safely aboard and then and only then can your ship start spooling up the warp drives... IE Make it REAL not "magic".

      And if you lived by probes as we do, yes, you would see it as a Big Change, but you don't because you are, as you said, a journeyman prober. Ripard, I'm gonna call you out... When it comes to features and mechanics such as Sov Null etc., etc. you have said you will seek advise from them as know such things better than you... We who live in Anoikis KNOW all about probes... so please don't blow us off just 'cause you don't see it as important.

      As you know I write from an Anoikis centric position, it's my place in the 'verse, so my perception of things is a bit warped by the crazy marble... =]

  14. I don't have opinions about most of the changes. I would like to see you write about the uselessness of decryptors. I had assumed that since most of them sell for several million ISK each, that they were useful.

    Anyway, I am a huge fan of the idea of removing rats from radar/mag sites. As I said before, this change will seed some "plankton" into the PVP food chain. I've already had some fun just touring around nullsec, which I've never done before because there was nothing I could reasonably do there.

    As for the exploration sites paying, thus far I have not found the ISK/hour in null to be as good as killing sleepers... but this is a pretty high bar. I have been getting maybe 30m/hour in null, with no big scores to show, mostly just T2 salvage and some decryptors. A one month old character can get this. It's pretty good.

    I like the scanning changes. Like you I consider this feature incomplete until they support a few more styles of play with the probe formations. In particular there is no support for flat-plane probe formation to blanket-scan a system when stealthily looking for PVP. The rest of it is either neutral or good. In particular I think that the change of showing hits on the main screen is one of those rare changes that will actually help newbs more than vets. The vets who care know that stuff is out there. Newbs aren't.

    My one complaint about the scanning system predates Odyssey but always worth making again. It is that the "edge on" move-probe arrows on the cubes (now just cube) are shown and grabable. There is simply no good use for this since you cannot judge depth in the Z dimension, whereas there is plenty of room to accidentally grab these things and move your probes to a position where you did not intend. Bad UI design. Please Jester make them see reason.

    I completely support the ice-mining changes. Not only is it much less bottable, it creates a much more interesting dynamic between miners, both to help each other by sharing spawn times and to compete to get the ice. Ice needed to be finite at some level, and designing it to push some mining out of highsec is the right idea. Indeed I would support an even further push in this direction.

    1. You hit it on the head and I'll have more to say about this, but I think the exploration mechanics are yet another massive feature set aimed squarely at newer players.

    2. I don't ice mine, but I can empathise with those players that were acclimatized to the former system.

      Under the new mechanics, a ice belt will be empty within 20-30minutes. Then it will not spawn for another 4hrs. So, if you have logged in the game outside of that period of activity, then tough luck. Mission Agents have a similiar mechanic - you can only decline one mission per 4hrs without losing standing. (something very common when trying to avoid standing loss to another empire faction). The option here is to approach another agent nearby, and keep playing the game. Lets say there was a change to this mechanic, and instead now all agents of that particular faction clocked the four hour timer. This is how I view the ice change. Moving to another system will not make a difference. All of the systems will be depleted in sync with daily DT. Of course you can go do something else - but it was not why you logged on the first place now was it?


  15. I'm still on the fence about the mechanic that serves you everything in the system you just entered on a platter. It's a bit like giving Louis and Clark a map of the continental US. But then, terrain has always been one of EVE's weaker points.

    I love love love the new wormhole transition, which really gives you the feeling that you're going through a warp in space.

    The new exploration minigame is kicking our butts in w-space. It will take me some time and skill training to adjust to before I have a more coherent opinion than "@*#$(%)@#*$#."

    I love the radial menu, except when I undock from a station and all I want to do is rotate the camera around.

    The flashing behavior when a targeted object goes boom is apparently triggering epileptic attacks; I'd consider changing it to having an exploding target disappear while a warping target fades over the course of a second or two. In other words, the impulse to present the information is good, but the presentation might need refinement. Things that are flashy and bright should be used sparingly.

  16. I don't like that they're making balancing (which should be routine and something they just do anyway) and other stuff like a radial menu out to be "big features" of an expansion. Its frankly bullshit to me.

    Sorry, most of this stuff doesn't pass as features to me and it isn't a valid way of marketing an expansion. Tell CCP to step up their game, please.

    1. Stuff had not been balanced (much) prior to the recent round of expansions and point releases, so at this point they still kinda qualify as big. Changing an entire class of ships is pretty big. On top of that though they are doing rebalance passes on ships they have previously balanced, and once all the major balancing is done this will likely be all that we see, and it will be a regular ongoing thing and not such a big deal.

      I am still waiting for them to refactor ship model sizes, however XD

  17. I hardly ever post, but since you're my elected representative, here we go :-)

    Not a fan of the new exploration. It works well as a side gig - something to do on a slow day for a veteran, or maybe as a newbie for a few weeks. The depth that made it a viable profession just isn't there post-Odyssey, IMHO.

    In the interest of full disclosure, solo exploration used to be my primary activity. Going into Odyssey, my main had about 15mil SP. A lot of these points were propping up my exploration setup: I needed a T1 ship that could do "all in one" low-sec exploration; it had to be fit just right, I needed decent drone skills to clear rats, probing skills to find sites, cloaking, etc. Probing wasn't easy to pick up, but getting better at it was fun and rewarding in its own right. On top of it all, like with other professions in EVE, there were more advanced ships to look forward to as a long-term goal. T3? HAC, maybe? Decisions, decisions...

    Post-Odyssey? My new setup is a T1 frig with a cargo scanner. Future upgrade? A T2 frig with a cargo scanner as soon as I can sit my rear in one (the ship, not the scanner). Probing mini-game has largely ceased to exist, while the hacking min-game just doesn't have the same longevity. Fun once or twice in the beginning, now it's just a bunch of mindless clicks standing between me and my loot. The thought of having to play it almost daily is kind of scary, actually.

    Dunno... it's a difficult place to be in. On one hand, making exploration more accessible and more attractive to more players is a good thing. Can't complain about that. On the other hand, I wonder if there wasn't some way of doing so without killing off the high end, too. Going from "too hard to learn, hard to master" to "easier to learn, little left to master" isn't a good change in my book.

    Andreas Fiore

    1. Alternate theory: as you gain proficiency in the mini-game, you can slingshot through it very rapidly, certainly more rapidly than the old system. What do you think? Am I wrong about that?

    2. As someone who has done exploration exclusively for the last few year (for pvp isk, not end game) I've got to agree with Anony.. on just about every point.

      It can only be more "rapid" if viewed entirely through the lens of newish player in highsec (which you're right, that's what CCP did). But for experienced players, or those in low-nullsec, I'd say it's about 3 times slower than before. And with dozens and dozens of more mouse clicks.

      What is constantly overlooked was that before while there was the cycle time of the hacking module (which everyone seems to now be over exaggerating) explores weren't just sitting there doing nothing, they where busy as hell. In low-null you where Dscanning down the gang looking for you. Getting their positions and distances. If the system was empty, or in hi-sec, you switched back over to continue probing down the other sigs in the system or planing your next system on the map. Now all that still needs to be done, just after you play this little game that involves a bunch of extra mouse clicks, and is getting old real quick.

    3. Hmm... that's an interesting way to look at it. Yes, I could probably get through the game more rapidly after I train up relevant character skills. However, it doesn't change the game itself - it's still mostly a clicking exercise.

      Have to admit that it's kind of amusing, though. As far as games go, "you sure can get it over with quickly!" normally doesn't make for a strong selling point. Don't let big publishers find out, or their future titles just might come with 30% less suffering :-).

    4. "you sure can get it over with quickly!" normally doesn't make for a strong selling point. ...future titles just might come with 30% less suffering...

      ZOMG!! This, this and THIS!!!! (too funny)

    5. Would prefer something that was actually fun as opposed to "makes me ISK quicker." CCP seems to be a bit blind to having other incentives in game as opposed to just profit. Exploration is an area which could and should have had more added to it then just a mini-game.

      Actual content would have been nice. Does the new version of Archeology link to the lore of EVE in any meaningful way? Yes, content gets chewed through pretty quickly, but if the content is actually interesting and cool looking, and if the process of exploring it is fun, then maybe it has greater value. Its a shame that there is so little depth to the new exploration features. I'm not interested in EVE becoming a theme park type of game. What I would like is for a little more flesh on the bones of the New Eden virtual world.

      For reference, I still think this is one of the best ideas I've come across on the forums.

  18. 'For too long, high SP PvPers have been repeatedly punished for getting into frigate and destroyer PvP with the ridiculously high cost of high-end clones.'
    High SP rewards you with a cheap frig or destroyer that performs better, but you risk losing that high value pod. Risk vs. reward, right?

    1. Yes, but it just doesn't make any sense to fly a 2 million ISK ship to lose a 30 million ISK pod (to say nothing of implant costs, if those are in). Most high SP pilots (including myself) elect not to fly anything that can be bubbled then insta-popped.

    2. "High SP rewards you with a cheap frig or destroyer that performs better,"

      Sure, about 2-3 million of my 150 million SP helps my frig perform slightly better. The rest of my skills for industry, exploration, drones, capital ships, jump mechanics, redundant weapon types, etc does nothing more than insure I never step into a frig or destroyer due to clone costs.

      I would rather see more pilots jumping into cheep ships for fun skirmish fights with a slight advantage then have less targets available. Clone costs are alienating ship types for high SP players and robbing potential fights from low SP players.

  19. aboutthe radial menu. it is pretty cool. if you setthe time delay until it apears to 0 you can do things much faster then befor.
    those keep range and orbit distance drag and drop options are very great too.

    butthere is one thingthat keeps me from using it. if radial menu is on left mouse button, i cant get things in to the target window anymore.

    you know sometime i want something preselected. like having a moon for an emergency warpout in the target window while still moving around and shooting something.

  20. What ever happened to being able to swap T3 subsystems at a POS? I thought that was a thing CCP was parading around for this expansion.


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